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  • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    It will be interesting how this plays out. I get the feeling the Hawks have decided to avoid Qb big money use the salary cap to pay for other players while having a young qb. It actually fits in with what they trying to do.

    The Broncos have been on the young qb / vet recycled qb carousel since 2015 and want off even if it means trading away picks, players and giving a qb big money.

    The 5+ year returns on these decisions will be interesting to watch.
    I don't think it is really that interesting to watch the what if scenarios between overpaying for a top notch QB like we are going to do and paying everyone else and drafting a stud QB. The latter is by far the best, but the chance of drafting a QB that can make you champion on his rookie contract like Seahawks did is a long-shot. Wilson in SEA is a clear example while his play has remained consistent the team around him has gotten worse because he got paid. Brady taking roughly 10mill less than other elite qbs means that he could have better players around. Elway did the same at the end, Manning won when he took a 4 mill haircut..
    I expect that we have gone from a D- team to a B+, but getting to the SB means that you have to be A-A+ through the whole playoffs. We are relevant, and we might make it, but likely we enter the playoffs and get as far as the 2011 team.

    Comment


    • Are you so bummed about this part are you going to enjoy having one of the top rated qbs all time for 24 mil cap hit vs Tannahil's 38.6 mil cap hit or Mahomes 35 mil cap hit or Cousins 31 mil cap hit in 2022? How about 2023 when Wilson goes up to 27 mil cap hit...the 13th highest among qbs while Watson hits 55 mil, Dak is 49 mil, Mahomes is 46 mil and Carr is 34 mil.

      Are you so bummed what is going to happen years from now you can not even enjoy the couple years of elite QB play at a bargain?

      Sea has a dead cap hit of 26 mil this year for Wilson. Higher than their top 2 players atm. Hopefully we can take advantage.

      Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

      I don't think it is really that interesting to watch the what if scenarios between overpaying for a top notch QB like we are going to do and paying everyone else and drafting a stud QB. The latter is by far the best, but the chance of drafting a QB that can make you champion on his rookie contract like Seahawks did is a long-shot. Wilson in SEA is a clear example while his play has remained consistent the team around him has gotten worse because he got paid. Brady taking roughly 10mill less than other elite qbs means that he could have better players around. Elway did the same at the end, Manning won when he took a 4 mill haircut..
      I expect that we have gone from a D- team to a B+, but getting to the SB means that you have to be A-A+ through the whole playoffs. We are relevant, and we might make it, but likely we enter the playoffs and get as far as the 2011 team.
      Last edited by Hadez; 06-23-2022, 05:24 AM.
      Let's Ride!

      Comment


      • Let's see what Paton can do to mitigate the effect on the annual salary cap through the use of different types of bonuses. Such an approach could be applied to players on the top end of the salaries. For next year Denver will be off the hook for c.$15 million of dead cap including Ja'Wuan James and Shelby Harris. The salary cap may be more manageable than seems possible provided drafting is productive. After next year, Denver will be off the hook for the draft capital invested in Russell.
        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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        • The Broncos have been pretty good at initial contracts imo. They seem to get in trouble with either paying a bad player or restructuring a good contract to make cap space....sometimes to sign a bad player.
          Let's Ride!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
            Are you so bummed about this part are you going to enjoy having one of the top rated qbs all time for 24 mil cap hit vs Tannahil's 38.6 mil cap hit or Mahomes 35 mil cap hit or Cousins 31 mil cap hit in 2022? How about 2023 when Wilson goes up to 27 mil cap hit...the 13th highest among qbs while Watson hits 55 mil, Dak is 49 mil, Mahomes is 46 mil and Carr is 34 mil.

            Are you so bummed what is going to happen years from now you can not even enjoy the couple years of elite QB play at a bargain?

            Sea has a dead cap hit of 26 mil this year for Wilson. Higher than their top 2 players atm. Hopefully we can take advantage.
            I really don't think Wilson is going to want to play out next season's contract as is. IMO - I think he will be open to looking at blending a big time contract extension over next year and an additional 5 years added on. This will still put us in a similar position to KC. We will NEED Wilson at that point to be THE REASON and not regress much at all in order for our team to remain competitive. In addition we will also need to draft unbelievably well in order for our team to backfill positions and players we will be unable to re-sign.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post

              I really don't think Wilson is going to want to play out next season's contract as is. IMO - I think he will be open to looking at blending a big time contract extension over next year and an additional 5 years added on. This will still put us in a similar position to KC. We will NEED Wilson at that point to be THE REASON and not regress much at all in order for our team to remain competitive. In addition we will also need to draft unbelievably well in order for our team to backfill positions and players we will be unable to re-sign.
              He will not be looking to bleed anyone at least not as of now.
              Last edited by Deandc; 06-23-2022, 11:06 AM.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by BroncoFanDK View Post

                I don't think it is really that interesting to watch the what if scenarios between overpaying for a top notch QB like we are going to do and paying everyone else and drafting a stud QB. The latter is by far the best, but the chance of drafting a QB that can make you champion on his rookie contract like Seahawks did is a long-shot. Wilson in SEA is a clear example while his play has remained consistent the team around him has gotten worse because he got paid. Brady taking roughly 10mill less than other elite qbs means that he could have better players around. Elway did the same at the end, Manning won when he took a 4 mill haircut..
                I expect that we have gone from a D- team to a B+, but getting to the SB means that you have to be A-A+ through the whole playoffs. We are relevant, and we might make it, but likely we enter the playoffs and get as far as the 2011 team.
                But did the Seahawks regress because Russell Wilson hindered their ability to sign FAs and/or retain their own guys or did they regress because they’re run on strong drafts ended with Wilson? The core of the team was strong when they drafted Wilson, whiffing on numerous draft picks and trading away other high picks for marginal returns is why they declined IMO rather than Wilson getting paid. Denver can pay Wilson whatever he wants and structure the contract in a way to where he’ll never be a big cap hit, it’s just about how long the team is comfortable with him taking a portion of the cap no matter how small. They can give him a 500 million dollar signing bonus on what amounts to be a 5 year deal and tack on 100 void years as long as they’re comfortable having him as a 4.6 million dollar cap hit for the next 107 years. And Wilson would get that 500 million day one after signing the contract. That’s an extreme example that isn’t actually possible as the NFL would immediately institute a max amount of years on a contract (McNabb once signed a 12 year deal) to prevent these things. But then again I don’t MLB has done that yet so who knows

                And Brady taking less isn’t the right phrasing, he’s getting his money in signing bonuses rather than actual yearly increments so his cap hit stays low. That’s the whole cash over cap thing and it’s why having a rich owner is so important for us right now as now we can actually compete in the cap gymnastics that the top teams are employing with their big money players. Brady is only an 11.8 cap hit this season, and it sounds great as a 1 year deal, but in actuality it’s a 1 year deal with 4 void years so for the next 4 years whether he plays or not the Bucs are paying him. So he can retire and he still get a 35 million dollar check next season from the Bucs, or he could walk down to Miami and do something similar with them while still collecting 35 million from the Bucs. It’s an expensive game of kick the can and it’s only something elite QBs with rich owners can fully take advantage of. It’s a very similar and yet very different situation than say Aaron Rodgers whom the Packers have to decide at the end of this season if he’s worth nearly 60 million in 2025. They’ll have other options available to them, but eventually they’re going to be stuck with paying Rodgers an absurd amount to not play because they can’t put as much money on the table as other teams.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                  But did the Seahawks regress because Russell Wilson hindered their ability to sign FAs and/or retain their own guys or did they regress because they’re run on strong drafts ended with Wilson? The core of the team was strong when they drafted Wilson, whiffing on numerous draft picks and trading away other high picks for marginal returns is why they declined IMO rather than Wilson getting paid. Denver can pay Wilson whatever he wants and structure the contract in a way to where he’ll never be a big cap hit, it’s just about how long the team is comfortable with him taking a portion of the cap no matter how small. They can give him a 500 million dollar signing bonus on what amounts to be a 5 year deal and tack on 100 void years as long as they’re comfortable having him as a 4.6 million dollar cap hit for the next 107 years. And Wilson would get that 500 million day one after signing the contract. That’s an extreme example that isn’t actually possible as the NFL would immediately institute a max amount of years on a contract (McNabb once signed a 12 year deal) to prevent these things. But then again I don’t MLB has done that yet so who knows

                  And Brady taking less isn’t the right phrasing, he’s getting his money in signing bonuses rather than actual yearly increments so his cap hit stays low. That’s the whole cash over cap thing and it’s why having a rich owner is so important for us right now as now we can actually compete in the cap gymnastics that the top teams are employing with their big money players. Brady is only an 11.8 cap hit this season, and it sounds great as a 1 year deal, but in actuality it’s a 1 year deal with 4 void years so for the next 4 years whether he plays or not the Bucs are paying him. So he can retire and he still get a 35 million dollar check next season from the Bucs, or he could walk down to Miami and do something similar with them while still collecting 35 million from the Bucs. It’s an expensive game of kick the can and it’s only something elite QBs with rich owners can fully take advantage of. It’s a very similar and yet very different situation than say Aaron Rodgers whom the Packers have to decide at the end of this season if he’s worth nearly 60 million in 2025. They’ll have other options available to them, but eventually they’re going to be stuck with paying Rodgers an absurd amount to not play because they can’t put as much money on the table as other teams.
                  The HAwks have been horrible in drafting and Fas since 2015. They were good early when PC was fresh out of college and knew the players. But they were horrible since

                  Since 2015 they have drafted 62 Players. Out of those 62 only 3 have been better than Avg. Lockett, DK, and A pinter.

                  Since 2015 their Fa signings netted 1 player that played avg and that was their own LB

                  That's the problem

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                    Are you so bummed about this part are you going to enjoy having one of the top rated qbs all time for 24 mil cap hit vs Tannahil's 38.6 mil cap hit or Mahomes 35 mil cap hit or Cousins 31 mil cap hit in 2022? How about 2023 when Wilson goes up to 27 mil cap hit...the 13th highest among qbs while Watson hits 55 mil, Dak is 49 mil, Mahomes is 46 mil and Carr is 34 mil.

                    Are you so bummed what is going to happen years from now you can not even enjoy the couple years of elite QB play at a bargain?

                    Sea has a dead cap hit of 26 mil this year for Wilson. Higher than their top 2 players atm. Hopefully we can take advantage.
                    No, I am very excited about having Wilson. I was against Watson before all the sex things came out, and not too hot on ARod, though I would have supported that. Russell Wilson is a fantastic trade in the manner of what improvement it will bring, but the past 25 years have shown that if you pay your QB in the top 5 then you are not winning the SB. It might change - we have the luxury that Carr and Mahomes are not discount contracts, so in division it is only the Chargers that have a financial advantage.

                    I am fully ready to ride with Wilson. I absolutely love his clear leadership.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

                      But did the Seahawks regress because Russell Wilson hindered their ability to sign FAs and/or retain their own guys or did they regress because they’re run on strong drafts ended with Wilson? The core of the team was strong when they drafted Wilson, whiffing on numerous draft picks and trading away other high picks for marginal returns is why they declined IMO rather than Wilson getting paid. Denver can pay Wilson whatever he wants and structure the contract in a way to where he’ll never be a big cap hit, it’s just about how long the team is comfortable with him taking a portion of the cap no matter how small. They can give him a 500 million dollar signing bonus on what amounts to be a 5 year deal and tack on 100 void years as long as they’re comfortable having him as a 4.6 million dollar cap hit for the next 107 years. And Wilson would get that 500 million day one after signing the contract. That’s an extreme example that isn’t actually possible as the NFL would immediately institute a max amount of years on a contract (McNabb once signed a 12 year deal) to prevent these things. But then again I don’t MLB has done that yet so who knows

                      And Brady taking less isn’t the right phrasing, he’s getting his money in signing bonuses rather than actual yearly increments so his cap hit stays low. That’s the whole cash over cap thing and it’s why having a rich owner is so important for us right now as now we can actually compete in the cap gymnastics that the top teams are employing with their big money players. Brady is only an 11.8 cap hit this season, and it sounds great as a 1 year deal, but in actuality it’s a 1 year deal with 4 void years so for the next 4 years whether he plays or not the Bucs are paying him. So he can retire and he still get a 35 million dollar check next season from the Bucs, or he could walk down to Miami and do something similar with them while still collecting 35 million from the Bucs. It’s an expensive game of kick the can and it’s only something elite QBs with rich owners can fully take advantage of. It’s a very similar and yet very different situation than say Aaron Rodgers whom the Packers have to decide at the end of this season if he’s worth nearly 60 million in 2025. They’ll have other options available to them, but eventually they’re going to be stuck with paying Rodgers an absurd amount to not play because they can’t put as much money on the table as other teams.
                      Great post!
                      There are too many moving parts to give Wilson's contracts as the only reason for the decline, but clearly SEA could not maintain their core of stars after 2013, and it is a combination of a lot of great cheap players from the draft and little money spent on the QB. Balancing who got paid after the 2 SBs I am sure played a major role.
                      In the past 25 years no QB with a top 5 cap hit has won the SB as far as I can see, whereas many of the highest paid QBs have gone deep into the playoffs.
                      High QB percentage of cap space is a strong indicator that it is hard to win the SB, but we have the best chance now that we have had since SB50.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Deandc View Post

                        He will not be looking to bleed anyone at least not as of now.
                        There is a delicate balance between what you're saying and also not wanting to hinder those who come after him.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Rich_C View Post

                          I really don't think Wilson is going to want to play out next season's contract as is. IMO - I think he will be open to looking at blending a big time contract extension over next year and an additional 5 years added on. This will still put us in a similar position to KC. We will NEED Wilson at that point to be THE REASON and not regress much at all in order for our team to remain competitive. In addition we will also need to draft unbelievably well in order for our team to backfill positions and players we will be unable to re-sign.
                          The good news is that the Broncos now have an owner with very deep pockets. So they can work the salary cap with bonuses. I wouldn't be surprised to see Wilson sign a new contract next off season (assuming he plays very well this year) for a loooong time with what looks like a ridiculously huge signing bonus. I'm saying eight years with a $200 MIL bonus isn't out of the question here.
                          Adopt-A-Bronco: Tim Patrick

                          Comment


                          • Bonuses can only be spread out for a maximum of 5 years, not the entire contract if the contract is more than 5 years. Just as an example ... Wilson signs a 5 year deal for 250M and get 150M signing bonus then the first year - for instance - could be 30M in signing bonus and 5M salary for a cap hit of 35M. The 2nd year could be 30M on bonus and 12M salary = 42M cap hit. After 2 seasons they would have accounted for 77M of the 250M contract with 3 seasons to go which would mean 57.67M per year cap hit if divided equally, if not divided equally the later years would have higher cap hits.
                            Voidable years in a contract can help in the immediate for a team to fit money under a salary cap but it also pushes cap hits on future year/s. To use that with Wilson would be somewhat complicated at this point in time. I guess it would be possible to just extend his current contract 3 more years (if it was before this season) at 50M per year and even give him most, if not all at signing but if Broncos do void the last 2 years - for instance - then that would accelerate the last 100M onto the 2025 season, from what I understand. I do not completely understand how these voidable years work so I might not be entirely accurate? Maybe somebody can also explain?
                            I would think the best way to handle Wilson's next contract would be to do a 5 year deal after this season that is very similar to what I hypothetically explained in the first paragraph. Then after 2-3 years, depending on his performance they then could do an extension with voidable years ... no matter what the team pays now or will have to pay later. It looks like with voidable years if the player gets years voided it will then accelerate to the first year after retiring?

                            IMO, I don't like the trend to add voidable years to contracts as it seems to be a way for teams to not follow the salary cap which means the cap is artificial and only most teams will have to abide by it. Just my opinion though.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                            • What a glorious summer day to talk about Russell Wilson’s contract extension.

                              History tells us Wilson will demand to be the highest paid player in the NFL:

                              In 2015 he signed a four year extension worth $87.6 million. At $21.9 million average per season his contract was just shy of Aaron Rodgers highest $22 million average per season at the time of signing.

                              In 2019 Wilson signed a four-year contract extension worth a total of $140 million, the highest-paid player in the NFL at the time of signing. The contract included $107 million in guarantees, $70 million of which was fully guaranteed at signing, including a $65 million signing bonus.

                              What did the Seahawks get for two contract extensions, making him 2nd highest and highest paid player at the time of signing two extensions?

                              2015-2021
                              Regular Season: 68-41-1
                              Playoffs: 3-5

                              3rd for regular season wins since 2015.

                              15th for playoff wins since 2015.

                              Here we have a player who’s been in the top three in the regular season but struggled to generate wins in the playoffs after demanding top pay.

                              Comment


                              • So glad we swapped Drew Lock for Russel Wilson.
                                Adopt-A-Bronco: Tim Patrick

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