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  • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

    He just had issues with winning. Hence the move to get Wilson.
    Did Lock have issues with winning or did the team have issues with winning?

    People here were quick to excuse Wilson for not winning in Seattle by saying it’s a team sport.

    I absolutely prefer Wilson over Lock, but Lock wasn’t given a fair chance to develop in Denver. Scangarello should never have been fired.
    My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
    You Mad Bro?
    Don’t Be A Mean Girl

    Comment


    • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

      Did Lock have issues with winning or did the team have issues with winning?

      People here were quick to excuse Wilson for not winning in Seattle by saying it’s a team sport.

      I absolutely prefer Wilson over Lock, but Lock wasn’t given a fair chance to develop in Denver. Scangarello should never have been fired.
      Wilson and Lock just traded teams so we will get the answer to your question this year.
      Seahawks were 6-8 with Russ last year. The Broncos were 0-3 with Lock last year.

      Wilson has played 10 seasons, last year was his first losing season. Of the 10 seasons he has played he has been in the playoffs 8 times, and a pro bower 9 of his 10 seasons.

      I believe John Elway could have done a much better job with Lock. He hired a Defensive minded coach and drafted a gunslinger these things dont mix. I hopw Lock does well in Seattle, but we got a real QB now who has played in offenses that were not built around his strengths and he still was successful.

      Last edited by 58Miller; 05-06-2022, 07:03 AM.
      sigpic

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      • I hope it all works out with Russell Wilson. (I am just a little apprehensive.) He turns 34 at the end of the year, and I think he should have at least three or four more years of good football left in him?
        But ya never know, until it happens.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Capt. Jack View Post
          I hope it all works out with Russell Wilson. (I am just a little apprehensive.) He turns 34 at the end of the year, and I think he should have at least three or four more years of good football left in him?
          But ya never know, until it happens.

          Hey you never know it could work out! 34 year old Matt Stafford had never won a playoff game before going to the Rams and now he has a SB ring 😎
          sigpic

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          • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
            Hey you never know it could work out! 34 year old Matt Stafford had never won a playoff game before going to the Rams and now he has a SB ring 😎
            I am happy and optimistic that we should be good again for 3 to 5 years.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

              Did Lock have issues with winning or did the team have issues with winning?

              People here were quick to excuse Wilson for not winning in Seattle by saying it’s a team sport.

              I absolutely prefer Wilson over Lock, but Lock wasn’t given a fair chance to develop in Denver. Scangarello should never have been fired.
              Did he earn a fair chance? Some of his failings are on him. But we'll see how he does in a different atmosphere. Surely he should beat out Geno Smith right?

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              • I am not sure if this was posted (sorry) but that was so cool how the Broncos draft room showed Russ highlights when The Seahawks were in the process of selecting their first pick.

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                • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                  Wilson and Lock just traded teams so we will get the answer to your question this year.
                  Seahawks were 6-8 with Russ last year. The Broncos were 0-3 with Lock last year.

                  Wilson has played 10 seasons, last year was his first losing season. Of the 10 seasons he has played he has been in the playoffs 8 times, and a pro bower 9 of his 10 seasons.

                  I believe John Elway could have done a much better job with Lock. He hired a Defensive minded coach and drafted a gunslinger these things dont mix. I hopw Lock does well in Seattle, but we got a real QB now who has played in offenses that were not built around his strengths and he still was successful.
                  Who says the offense wasn’t built around Wilson’s strengths? Wilson?

                  Personally, I think Russell might think too much of himself.

                  I also think it’s possible he can succeed in different offensive approaches because he’s a great quarterback. We’ll see if that’s the case, this year.
                  My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                  You Mad Bro?
                  Don’t Be A Mean Girl

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

                    Did he earn a fair chance? Some of his failings are on him. But we'll see how he does in a different atmosphere. Surely he should beat out Geno Smith right?
                    Yes....the past is done, and Lock did not help his chances, no matter who folks want to point at. I pulled for him in the draft, and very much in his rookie year. But I saw some flaws in year two that went beyond technical skill. Kind of immature. And his accuracy became more of a problem. So I bid him good luck, and though he may turn it around in Seattle, I'm betting on Russ.

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                    • Originally posted by Bronco51 View Post

                      He just had issues with winning. Hence the move to get Wilson.
                      Oh. Yes the move for Wilson with a trend of losing playoff games since 2015 and issues winning last season.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Fantaztic7 View Post

                        Oh. Yes the move for Wilson with a trend of losing playoff games since 2015 and issues winning last season.
                        Your use of the word "trend" to "prove" your point only shows your lack of understanding how statistics and logic work. First, the sample size you use is way to small to have any significant relevancy.

                        You also fail to accept there are untold other factors, yet you argue that Wilson is 100% responsible for the team record simply because the QB is the most important single part of an NFL team. You are confusing this with being the only part of a team that matters. In reality, the QB is like betting the favorite vs the Field, with the Field being every other factor like coaches, other players, GM decisions, luck, injuries, etc. The entire "field" of a football team is more important than the QB, even though the QB is the SINGLE most important piece.

                        Logic 101 tells us the past doesn't equal the future. John Elway was "trending" to be blown out in Super Bowls, with 3 straight blow out defeats, until he didn't. See the point above about there being other factors: the favorite vs. the field.

                        You also only pick and choose the "trends" for your argument, ignoring the big picture. How about the trend that the last two Super Bowl winning QBs had changed teams the year before they won the Super Bowl? How does Russ' stats last season compare to Brady's last with the Pats and Stafford's last with the Lions? Hint: Russ' stats were much more impressive. Check them for yourself. BTW, Stafford was "trending" to never win a playoff game, let alone a Super Bowl.

                        You cherry-pick the time period to use for your "trend". Let's look at Russ' entire trend. He's won a Super Bowl and played in another. The expectation for a team to win the Super Bowl is 1 every 32 years, since there are 32 total teams. The expectation to play in the Super Bowl is 1 every 16 years, since there's 16 teams in a conference and only 1 team a year makes it. In 10 seasons, Russ has won a Super Bowl, 3x the expectation. He's made the Super Bowl twice, which is also about 3x the expectation. This trend has just as much validity as your trend.

                        You also make the assumption that it was the Seahawks that wanted to get rid of Wilson when everything I've seen says it was Wilson that wanted to leave the Hawks.

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                        • Originally posted by Deandc View Post

                          No, they will not they had that before Wilson and it got them 7-9.
                          By no means am I implying that Drew Lock gets them to a Super Bowl. He would have to improve next year to get them to a winning record so 7-9 seems about right.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by broncolee View Post

                            Who says the offense wasn’t built around Wilson’s strengths? Wilson?

                            Personally, I think Russell might think too much of himself.

                            I also think it’s possible he can succeed in different offensive approaches because he’s a great quarterback. We’ll see if that’s the case, this year.
                            The offense was to be built around Wilson at all. If it were their oline would not have been ranked 26th on avg during his tenure there. PC always wanted to run, play defense and throw long but only about 18 times a game. You should read his book, he says sit all. Run, Play defense throw long outside the numbers. To PC his offense is only there to help his defense. Every QB PC has had as an HC in the NFl was in the top 5 in sacks. because he doe snot value pass protection. Every Time he gave Wilson some room, he would pull it back in. For example last year Wladron's offense requires a motion. We went from top 5 in motion in game 1 to bottom 5 from games 2-15. Then game 16-17 back to top 5. Why the change after the first game, simple as PC said I got to help my defense which was not playing well. His answer to his defense is always to pull back the offense and try to make them take more time to run plays, giving his defense rest. The problem is his defense led the league in 5+ minute drives and led the league in 5+ minutes drive on the first drive of each half. Forget he plays a bend don't break defense giving up huge junks in the middle of the field. He puts that on the offense.

                            that aside they NEVER built the offense around Wilson. PCs answer to everything is run more.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lvbronx View Post

                              Your use of the word "trend" to "prove" your point only shows your lack of understanding how statistics and logic work. First, the sample size you use is way to small to have any significant relevancy.

                              You also fail to accept there are untold other factors, yet you argue that Wilson is 100% responsible for the team record simply because the QB is the most important single part of an NFL team. You are confusing this with being the only part of a team that matters. In reality, the QB is like betting the favorite vs the Field, with the Field being every other factor like coaches, other players, GM decisions, luck, injuries, etc. The entire "field" of a football team is more important than the QB, even though the QB is the SINGLE most important piece.

                              Logic 101 tells us the past doesn't equal the future. John Elway was "trending" to be blown out in Super Bowls, with 3 straight blow out defeats, until he didn't. See the point above about there being other factors: the favorite vs. the field.

                              You also only pick and choose the "trends" for your argument, ignoring the big picture. How about the trend that the last two Super Bowl winning QBs had changed teams the year before they won the Super Bowl? How does Russ' stats last season compare to Brady's last with the Pats and Stafford's last with the Lions? Hint: Russ' stats were much more impressive. Check them for yourself. BTW, Stafford was "trending" to never win a playoff game, let alone a Super Bowl.

                              You cherry-pick the time period to use for your "trend". Let's look at Russ' entire trend. He's won a Super Bowl and played in another. The expectation for a team to win the Super Bowl is 1 every 32 years, since there are 32 total teams. The expectation to play in the Super Bowl is 1 every 16 years, since there's 16 teams in a conference and only 1 team a year makes it. In 10 seasons, Russ has won a Super Bowl, 3x the expectation. He's made the Super Bowl twice, which is also about 3x the expectation. This trend has just as much validity as your trend.

                              You also make the assumption that it was the Seahawks that wanted to get rid of Wilson when everything I've seen says it was Wilson that wanted to leave the Hawks.
                              Great Post spot on

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by samparnell View Post

                                Football players can get better, worse or stay the same. Unless a change of scenery helps Drew, he shouldn't be asked to throw more than thirty passes per game; fewer if possible. A run heavy PAP offense is the only one in which he has a chance IMO, but ball security is still an issue for him.
                                Yes, Drew Lock so far is not the gun-slinger he was in college. I will admit he cut down his turnovers the last three starts, but our offensive production wasn't better because of it. Seattle was successful when they ran the football a lot and had Wilson be a big play maker when called upon. Drew Lock has not been a big play maker, minus maybe 3 games of his career.

                                A change of scenery kind of helped Kirk Cousins so maybe there is hope for Drew Lock. I will take the risk with Wilson though.

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