NFL Hall Of Fame Denver's Broncos LB Karl Mecklenburg

[DENVERSB50CHAMP]

Check this out Randy Gradishar

https://predominantlyorange.com/2022...har-hall-fame/

Both Randy and Karl need to be put in this year. I hope that happens. Trying to squeak this Wheel 🛞.

[Capt. Jack]

Both Randy and Karl need to be put in this year. I hope that happens. Trying to squeak this Wheel 🛞.

I agree !!!!

[gtown53]

He is one of the few that went to all three but there were some other good defensive players on those teams.

I am saying this to understand when saying he was the best there were some really good players to compare him against.

I must be getting grouchy in my old age. And I thought Mecklenburg was a decent lb. But mentioning him in the same sentence with Randy Gradishar is a joke. It's like comparing Jake Plummer to John Elway. And I get it that there are a lot of young people on these boards. I watched every game those players played for the Broncos. The only reason that Randy Gradishar isn't in the Hall of Fame is because he didn't play for a talented east coast team. Like Jack Lambert did.

[DENVERSB50CHAMP]

I must be getting grouchy in my old age. And I thought Mecklenburg was a decent lb. But mentioning him in the same sentence with Randy Gradishar is a joke. It's like comparing Jake Plummer to John Elway. And I get it that there are a lot of young people on these boards. I watched every game those players played for the Broncos. The only reason that Randy Gradishar isn't in the Hall of Fame is because he didn't play for a talented east coast team. Like Jack Lambert did.

I see your point of view as I did not watch Randy ever play. I did however see Karl play and my 1st Denver Broncos Memory was when I was 10 Years old in 1985. I just moved into Aurora and I was at a house party and I saw my Dad and a Bunch of other Adults jumping up and down at a play that Karl made. From that point on I was hooked for Life !! DB4L !! Karl was a True Bad Azz 4 Superbowl Appearances that alone says ALOT and that ALONE should get Karl in the NFL HOF.

I never got to see Randy play however if you state that Randy was the MAN then Randy and Karl BOTH NEED TO MAKE IT IN !! Someone email the NFL HOF and lets make this Happen DBC !!

[Hadez]

I must be getting grouchy in my old age. And I thought Mecklenburg was a decent lb. But mentioning him in the same sentence with Randy Gradishar is a joke. It's like comparing Jake Plummer to John Elway. And I get it that there are a lot of young people on these boards. I watched every game those players played for the Broncos. The only reason that Randy Gradishar isn't in the Hall of Fame is because he didn't play for a talented east coast team. Like Jack Lambert did.

I do not care when or where Randy played. If Randy was that much better of a player as you say he would be in the HOF. I did not watch Randy so I can not speak on his talent level. We can watch game film but imo that only does so much.

I have seen the Albino Rhino play. If he is the Jake Plummer and Randy is the Elway (your analogy) Randy would have been in the HOF in a short number of years upon being eligble. The HOF process is flawed but players that good get in.

I think something is up with your opinion here. Maybe a bias for Randy and/or against Meck? Maybe something else?

[lvbronx]

IMO Gradishar was the most impactful defensive player ever for the Broncos. Meck was second. Champ and Atwater, both in the Hall were great but DBs don't impact games like ML in Gradishar's era or how Meck moved around the front 7. A CBs best games are often when they don't do "anything";.

[samparnell]

Randy Gradishar, Karl Mecklenburg and Al Wilson are the best Denver Inside Backers I have seen play. Gradishar and Mecklenburg are in Denver's Ring of Fame. Al Wilson and some other players belong there, too. Denver can control that, but not the PFHOF which has a lot of bias and isn't fair or objective IMO.

[lvbronx]

Randy Gradishar, Karl Mecklenburg and Al Wilson are the best Denver Inside Backers I have seen play. Gradishar and Mecklenburg are in Denver's Ring of Fame. Al Wilson and some other players belong there, too. Denver can control that, but not the PFHOF which has a lot of bias and isn't fair or objective IMO.

Of the 3, Al Wilson would probably be the best fit in today's game. He was known as a thumper but was excellent in coverage too.

[Hadez]

Of the 3, Al Wilson would probably be the best fit in today's game. He was known as a thumper but was excellent in coverage too.

I think all three would be liabilities in the pass defense. Randy and Wilson seemed to excel at the run defense game. Randy played in a time when the pass game was non-existent because DBs would be mauling players all over the field.

I do think Meck would have value as a pass rusher over the other two.

[samparnell]

I think all three would be liabilities in the pass defense. Randy and Wilson seemed to excel at the run defense game. Randy played in a time when the pass game was non-existent because DBs would be mauling players all over the field.

I do think Meck would have value as a pass rusher over the other two.

Can remember Al Wilson covering the seam receiver (usually TE) deep on a Tampa 2 call.

[Hadez]

Can remember Al Wilson covering the seam receiver (usually TE) deep on a Tampa 2 call.

Most of my memories of Wilson covering are him chasing the guy and maybe the ball hits him in the back or he gets his hands into the offensive guy's hands. I do not remember him being that good at turning around and playing the ball. TBH a lot of LBs during his time and before played pass defense this way. Teams have gotten good at exploiting LBs playing this kind of pass defense. If nothing else they have learned to throw the ball short and get the PI. I mean least Wilson knew his assignment and had the speed to keep up with some guys. I do think that would have been true with Meck as well. I am not sure if Meck would have the speed to play pass defense in 2022 though.

The rules keep favoring the offense in the secondary. Wilson was playing when the 5 yard contact rule was made a priority by the league and they keep getting stricter about enforcing it every year beyond when he stopped playing. Playing pass defense is different now a days. To be completely fair who knows who would be able to adjust and who would not. There is a lot of theory crafting being done when trying to project past players into today's game.

Not even sure if it is fair to try and compare pass defense in the 70s to today. The rule enforcement was so different. Not just the direct pass defending rules but edge rushers had an advantage because of how the OT had to line up on the LoS. Defenders playing coverage could not only get away with far more contact but they knew the rush was coming hard and could play accordingly.

It can be fun to imagine but a lot of projecting and assuming is going on.

[samparnell]

Most of my memories of Wilson covering are him chasing the guy and maybe the ball hits him in the back or he gets his hands into the offensive guy's hands. I do not remember him being that good at turning around and playing the ball. TBH a lot of LBs during his time and before played pass defense this way. Teams have gotten good at exploiting LBs playing this kind of pass defense. If nothing else they have learned to throw the ball short and get the PI. I mean least Wilson knew his assignment and had the speed to keep up with some guys. I do think that would have been true with Meck as well. I am not sure if Meck would have the speed to play pass defense in 2022 though.

The rules keep favoring the offense in the secondary. Wilson was playing when the 5 yard contact rule was made a priority by the league and they keep getting stricter about enforcing it every year beyond when he stopped playing. Playing pass defense is different now a days. To be completely fair who knows who would be able to adjust and who would not. There is a lot of theory crafting being done when trying to project past players into today's game.

Not even sure if it is fair to try and compare pass defense in the 70s to today. The rule enforcement was so different. Not just the direct pass defending rules but edge rushers had an advantage because of how the OT had to line up on the LoS. Defenders playing coverage could not only get away with far more contact but they knew the rush was coming hard and could play accordingly.

It can be fun to imagine but a lot of projecting and assuming is going on.

Tampa 2 presents a deep halves look identical to Cover 2, Cover 2 Robber and Cover 2 Invert. It's a Combo coverage usually with everyone playing zone except the Mike Backer who plays man on the seam receiver. What has changed in the way a defender plays one-on-one against a designated receiver? The only thing I can think of is the general lack of inside leverage used especially by DBs in the NFL.

[Hadez]

Tampa 2 presents a deep halves look identical to Cover 2, Cover 2 Robber and Cover 2 Invert. It's a Combo coverage usually with everyone playing zone except the Mike Backer who plays man on the seam receiver. What has changed in the way a defender plays one-on-one against a designated receiver? The only thing I can think of is the general lack of inside leverage used especially by DBs in the NFL.

So are you trying to say you do not understand how the 5 yard contact rule is being more enforced since 2000 or how defenders in the 70s would almost mug pass catching options all over the field?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/sto...ohn&id=1840261

This is not even touching how Coryell or Walsh evolved the passing game and how defenders had to defend it.

[samparnell]

So are you trying to say you do not understand how the 5 yard contact rule is being more enforced since 2000 or how defenders in the 70s would almost mug pass catching options all over the field?

https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/sto...ohn&id=1840261

This is not even touching how Coryell or Walsh evolved the passing game and how defenders had to defend it.

Enforcement of rules is subjective. Technique of covering a receiver one-on-one has been fundamental for a long time.

Sid Gillman wrote a guide for how to attack Covers 0 through 9. Bill Walsh wrote a thirteen part outline on how to dictate to defenses through the use of formations which was complex requiring verbose playcalls. Coryell's was simpler usually using three numbers a letter and a route (numbers for routes run by X, Y, Z left to right, letter for a fourth receiver with route name)

Pass defense is how much pressure, who applies it and how and how many defenders are devoted to coverage and what kind (Man, Zone or Combo) Since Steve Owen invented the 4-3 Split Front, and pro football's adaptation of Bud Wilkinson's Oklahoma 50 odd front which was called the 3-4, there has been Double Eagle (aka Bear/46), Nickel and Dime, Zone Blitz, Robber, Tampa 2, 4-2-5 and 3-3-5, rotations and inverts and recently 5-1.

The defenses that have fooled Peyton Manning include Cover 2 Robber, Zone Blitz and 3-3-5, and are good examples of defensive innovations to counter passing attacks. Stunts and Twists from the front comprise a not-too-long list of ways to apply pressure. Individual techniques for pass rushers include bull, rip, swim, get skinny to beat a double and wrong arm the blocker.

[Hadez]

Enforcement of rules is subjective. Technique of covering a receiver one-on-one has been fundamental for a long time.

Sid Gillman wrote a guide for how to attack Covers 0 through 9. Bill Walsh wrote a thirteen part outline on how to dictate to defenses through the use of formations which was complex requiring verbose playcalls. Coryell's was simpler usually using three numbers a letter and a route (numbers for routes run by X, Y, Z left to right, letter for a fourth receiver with route name)

Pass defense is how much pressure, who applies it and how and how many defenders are devoted to coverage and what kind (Man, Zone or Combo) Since Steve Owen invented the 4-3 Split Front, and pro football's adaptation of Bud Wilkinson's Oklahoma 50 odd front which was called the 3-4, there has been Double Eagle (aka Bear/46), Nickel and Dime, Zone Blitz, Robber, Tampa 2, 4-2-5 and 3-3-5, rotations and inverts and recently 5-1.

The defenses that have fooled Peyton Manning include Cover 2 Robber, Zone Blitz and 3-3-5, and are good examples of defensive innovations to counter passing attacks. Stunts and Twists from the front comprise a not-too-long list of ways to apply pressure. Individual techniques for pass rushers include bull, rip, swim, get skinny to beat a double and wrong arm the blocker.

My point was how much contact a defender can make to a offensive player running a route matters.

Are you trying to so that it does not matter?

Part of the "technique" in the 70s and up until 2004 was to use contact in order to prevent passes from being completed. Part of the "technique" was the light the offensive player up with viscous hits in order to not only separate the ball from the player but also to put out a aura of fear to the offensive players for catching the ball. That is two examples of how rules have changed "technique" I know it is not the technique you are trying to describe but do you deny this was part of the game of football until the rules//rule-enforcement forced it out?

If it does not matter why are we seeing reports like this that lead to changes in how rules are enforced.

From the article in my previous thread.

Competition Committee members Mike Martz, Mike Holmgrem and others were appalled at the number of replays featuring cornerbacks mugging receivers and getting away with it. They had watched it with their own players during the season, but to see the extent of it league-wide was troubling.

I think it is safe to say most people who have watched the game of football since the 70s would say what defenders have been allowed to do in order to stop offensive players from catching the ball has changed.