Sean Payton Effect

[broncolee]

What similarities of the two QBs are you thinking?

I see two entirely different players. One that was more of a pocket passer that rarely was a running threat. He processed defenses and routes with great accuracy. Including quick slants, utilized RB and middle third patterns.

The other was at his best as a rushing threat that defenses needed to respect. A QB that relied on a power running game to set up PAP long throws or his mobility to extend plays. Not really a timing, pure passer.

The biggest question is can Payton get one to play more like the other late in his career. Not his natural instincts or “comfort zone” during a game. Last year that led to indecision. On what he was seeing and where he needed to deliver the ball. Payton has a tough job.

Maybe I am being too critical. Curious to see the comments of how Brees and Wilson skill sets overlap enough that Payton can get the best out of Wilson at 35 yrs old?

The question isn’t whether or not Payton can turn Wilson into Brees.

The question is: can he use Wilson’s strengths to produce an effective offense?

[WYBRONCO]

the question isn’t whether or not payton can turn wilson into brees.

The question is: Can he use wilson’s strengths to produce an effective offense?

nailed it!!!!

[FR Tim]

The question isn’t whether or not Payton can turn Wilson into Brees.

The question is: can he use Wilson’s strengths to produce an effective offense?

That would be a really good question. Lol

My progression of that question is what would be the offense using those strengths when one of his strengths is declining and not as effective as it once was. Can he be converted from a duel threat QB to more of a pure passer. My point continues to be Wilson has never been a Brees, Manning or Brady type QB. They played the same way their entire careers.

To extend his career Wilson needs to start playing more in that style? Can he?

Broncos gave up too much for mediocre QB play. I’m expecting improvement over last year, but that is due to last year being such a fiasco. Wilson works hard, seems committed to winning. Next step is to see how his “go-to” instincts can be adjusted to win games.

[RocketArm006]

Wilson’s skills may have diminished, but they haven’t vanished. Most of his good and memorable plays last year were scrambling athletic type plays. He’s still plenty mobile. He may have lost a step, but he is still a mobile QB. He doesn’t need to convert into a pure pocket passer. He will be effective on the run just like he always has been. He doesn’t have the same speed he did in his hey days, but he is still a mobile QB.

[Hadez]

The question isn’t whether or not Payton can turn Wilson into Brees.

The question is: can he use Wilson’s strengths to produce an effective offense?

Agreed 100%

No two players are exactly the same

Real coaches earn their money by understanding their players and coaching with what they have.

Saw a great video of Montana telling Walsh he could not make certain throws. Walsh said it was ok he would not have to. Part of the reason Montana was considered the best QB before TB12 was because of how he was coached. If he was asked on a regular basis to do what he could not do then who knows how things would have ended

[samparnell]

The question isn’t whether or not Payton can turn Wilson into Brees.

The question is: can he use Wilson’s strengths to produce an effective offense?

Sure. In his fifteen years in New Orleans, Sean Payton ran his version of the Air Coryell Offense aka Vertical. In his early coaching days in the Fifties, Don Coryell (soon to be inducted into HOF) used a run heavy offense, and some have called him the "Father of the I Formation". Both Coryell and Payton understood/understand the importance of a viable rushing attack which commands the attention of the opposing D.

Coryell also knew that the natural companion to a stout rushing attack is a deep passing attack. He devised a simple system with short calls which sent receivers deep, intermediate and short. On a pass, the QB reads deep first, then intermediate and short last. As a student of Air Coryell and a member of the Bill Parcells' coaching tree, Sean Payton calls an aggressive passing attack. During his career in NO, Drew Brees attempted over 600 passes nine times in fifteen years, all in sixteen game seasons. Under Payton, the Saints' O was top ten in points twelve out of fifteen years, and top ten in yards thirteen times.

Free agent acquisitions indicate a rushing attack which will probably be predominantly angle blocked. Angle blocking affords far more play action looks than zone steps. Each run play should have a play action companion. It is important that the course taken by the QB after the meshpoint is the same regardless of give or keep, so that it looks the same to the D. RW could do well in the play action portion of the passing attack. In a seventeen game season, RW could attempt c.600 passes half of which might be play action; called rushing attempts could be in the 500 range. Denver's O could end up showing the defensive front run steps on about 800 plays.

SP's commitment seems to be to a solid, power run game coupled with a deep passing attack a la Coryell. Evidence of the latter is seen in Denver moving up to the end of the second round of the draft to take Marvin Mims. Mims is insurance against oft-injured KJ Hamler and underperforming Montrell Washington. Denver also has Jerry Jeudy and Jalen Virgil who can stretch a defense on deep routes as well. In Seattle, RW threw deep passes well and he may be asked to do that this year, too. We shall see; should be fun. Am looking forward to it.

[ozzies94ta]

We went from "let's ride" to "uncommon"...whats next "bashfully embarrassing"?

[samparnell]

We went from "let's ride" to "uncommon"...whats next "bashfully embarrassing"?

How about M.U.F.L.Y.?

[Spice 1]

We went from "let's ride" to "uncommon"...whats next "bashfully embarrassing"?

I'll just presume it's a reference to Chester Nimitz. Whatever unifies the team though.

[samparnell]

I'll just presume it's a reference to Chester Nimitz. Whatever unifies the team though.

[BroncoFanDK]

Designing an offense to put Wilson in position to be a freestyle and thrive in is the question though. Wilson still needs to excel.

Wilson still needs to make pre snap reads, still needs to assess correctly, still needs to make the correct throws. Can he?

Moreover the question is can he make the pass on time. Kurt Warner has a great analysis!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhJTlxupens&t=1290s

There are so many things that are open and missed at the time where it was open.
RW clearly need a OC/HC that run in the Kubiak/Shannahan method of telling the QB you do A if..., B if...., C if....
RW is no Peyton Manning!

[Hadez]

I am really enjoying the SP pressers.

we have had different level of HC since Kubes left but none of the Vance to Hackett HCs sounded like they were as prepared to get a team ready like SP is.

[No_Fly_Zone50]

Anybody watching Hard Knocks?

I mean it’s quite clear that AR is the OC, Hack is along for the ride.

How many times has AR questioned what they are running or just straight up say, yeaaaaa let’s not call that in that situation anymore.

[Mel B.]

Anybody watching Hard Knocks?

I mean it’s quite clear that AR is the OC, Hack is along for the ride.

How many times has AR questioned what they are running or just straight up say, yeaaaaa let’s not call that in that situation anymore.

Yeah like he was in GB...Hackett was OC 'in title ONLY'...LaFleur was the actual OC and play caller.

[No_Fly_Zone50]

Yeah like he was in GB...Hackett was OC 'in title ONLY'...LaFleur was the actual OC and play caller.

Yea and think about our GM actually signing him as a HC…..

A lot of question marks still to be answered.