Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Breaking Down the Cover 2 and Tampa 2

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Breaking Down the Cover 2 and Tampa 2

    In my opinion, Cover 2 and Tampa 2 are the weakest defenses in Football. It leaves too many holes and gives the safeties too much burden. The safeties are assigned deep halves (fades) and the corners are assigned the flats. The linebackers get their chunk of zone in the middle of the field.



    All the corners basically do is jam the receiver immediately after the snap and wait in the flats. This severely hinders their ability. Aren't they supposed to be up with the receivers? The safeties have the arduous task of covering the deep zones where the receivers will be. Safeties on WOs are NOT a good matchup. Safeties are intended to cover TEs and RBs, and maybe Slotbacks. Here are the holes in the Cover 2.



    One of the reasons why D-Will got "burned" was that people didn't know that it was Cover 2. All of the plays where he got "burned" were Cover 2. He was only assigned the flats and the safeties had the deep half. Safeties tend to play towards the middle, because that's where the receivers usually are, except on fly routes. D-Will got "burned" on those fly routes. The WOs hug the sideline and enter the soft spot between the flats and deep halves, all the while hugging the sideline. This would easily enter the safety's blind spot, so the safety probably won't see him.

    Without a good pass rush, the safeties have to continually move deeper and deeper. That stretches the weak spot between the safeties' and corners'/linebackers' zones. A TE or RB on a block and release route can hit the jackpot there. A fast WO on a drag route (run up 15 or 20 yards, then go 90 degrees) can catch the safeties off guard, even if the WO is in the safeties' zone. Zone coverage dictates that you must watch your own zone, and only your zone. No man coverage, only your zone. As a fast WO gets through the zones, the safeties are distracted. They must switch their position to better play him. Moreso if there are others running fade/fly routes. This leaves a momentary slowdown lapse when the safeties "hand-off" their assignment. In school, we have to yell "IN IN IN" or "CRACK CRACK CRACK" when that happens. Similar to a wheel route. With good timing, the QB can bullet a pass in there before the safeties can "hand-off" the assignment and get in position.

    If the safeties and corners were to reverse roles immediately after the snap, that would be bad too. A fast WO can get behind the corners and safeties and reel in 6 points.



    That is the Tampa 2. It's basically a Cover 2, but only for 4-3 defenses. The MLB goes up to take up that middle deep third. Emphasis is on speed. This relieves the role of the safeties a little. Corners get flats like usual. Again, a fast WO running between the zones would be capable of making a huge play. Note that the strong side safety (SS) gets a bigger chunk than the weak side safety (FS). Strong side is on the left from defense point of view.

    Even if a SB or WO or even TE were matched up in the MLB's deep third, that would be a problem, even though it's basically 1 on 1. Linebackers aren't generally used to cover receivers. They would get burned very easily. But that's a generalization. Urlacher could / is very successful with Tampa 2 as he can cover a receiver pretty well.

    -----------

    I decided to post this because I was tired of people saying that D-Will was a bad cover corner / got burned frequently.

    Plus, I wanted to voice what I had to say about the Cover 2 and it's weaknesses.

  • #2
    All defenses have weaknesses.

    The cover 2 is no different. It depends on how well it's executed and the quality of players that are executing it.

    Think of the cover 2 as a part of a defenses arsenal of weapons. If it were a "weak" defense, teams wouldn't run it.

    "Hey, lets run that lousy cover 2 so we can get beat."

    It doesn't work that way. Cover 2 has it's strengths against the run as well as underneath routes.

    The whole Darrent and cover 2 argument has been made and well explained.

    http://forums.denverbroncos.com/show...0&postcount=18

    ----------------------------------------------------------------

    Originally posted by // / yardo
    I took another look at this play and it wasn't a blown coverage although it may have looked like it since Foxy crepped over from his zone over the top of Darrents. I think he knew they were looking to throw in that soft spot above him.



    SD was in a shotgun 4 receiver set with 3 receivers to the left side (defenses right).

    The outside route was a double move, 5 yard out and up. The receiver goes up field 5 yards, cuts out to the sideline to get the Corner to bite on the underneath throw and then cuts up the sideline off of the pump fake (this is the same type of route that got Darrent in the Indy game). The slot receiver runs a straight out to the flats under the outside receivers route. The TE runs his route straight up the field to press the safety and make him choose who to cover. The left side receiver, well, who cares what he did cuz he's just going to get owned by Champ and Rivers isn't even going to look over there anyway but it looks like another out and up.

    Kinda hard to tell but from what I can see the defense was in a cover 2 (two safeties deep), nickle with Foxy the extra corner lined up over the slot.



    Darrent and Champ were in a zone underneath in the flats which means they had NO DEEP RESPONSIBILITY and only has to get a bump on the receiver before releasing him to the safety, preferably to the inside of the field to give the safety time to get over to his zone. Darrent lets him outside which is the only thing I saw him do wrong on that play.



    Darrent gets a good bump on Parker early and then releases him to the safety. The slot tries to get behind Darrent but the kid does his job and just sits right in the middle of his zone. Both Darrent and Foxy were in the area. I can't see the rest of the field but it looks like Gates was the only guy that could've been deep between the safeties. IF that was the case then that's the safety's responsibilty and one of the easier ways to beat a cover 2.

    If you look at the routs vs. the coverage, they pressed our weak spots very well only Rivers got excited and threw the ball too early instead of letting the out and up get open. I can't see if the safety was coming over the top but he hurried for a reason and it wasn't because of pressure. If he waits another second, Parker should be open on that soft spot above Darrent depending on where the safety was.

    Result: Good D, INT and 6 points for us. Like I said, I've ripped on Darrent before but I'll give credit where it's due. He's due his credit for that play. Give him some more time and he'll be great.

    What I liked about this play was they let DW play a little closer to the reciever. They had him put a bump on his guy to slow up the route. Reason being is he can't get burnt deep and the bump helps out the safety.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ah. I love that post. Explains a lot.

      But I personally think that Cover 2 has more holes. It is a very tough defense to run and should only be run on situations where run is more likely to happen.

      I like the Cover 3 for basically anything. I think it's the all around defense. I really dislike the Cover 2 though because it severely limits the Corners and asks too much from the safeties.

      Comment


      • #4
        As in the diagram you have above, yardo, Darrent had to deal with the SB and WO.

        He jams the WO and sends him off the safety, who by then is pretty far down field. The safety has to watch the TE and WO, so he has coverage holes. Then Darrent has to deal with the SB, and he can't turn around to watch the safety take care of the WO because he has to deal with the SB.

        Wheel routes wreak havoc on Cover 2s also.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by NickTranOwnz
          Ah. I love that post. Explains a lot.

          But I personally think that Cover 2 has more holes. It is a very tough defense to run and should only be run on situations where run is more likely to happen.

          I like the Cover 3 for basically anything. I think it's the all around defense. I really dislike the Cover 2 though because it severely limits the Corners and asks too much from the safeties.
          Cover 2 frees up the corners more so than a cover 3. It gives the corner the ability to be more aggressive on slants, hooks, outs, etc. And those are the routes that score points when picked off.

          In a cover 3 the corner is more susceptible to double moves. That being because he has deep responsibilities. If the corner hesitates for even a split second he can give the WR the deep route and that usually equates to 6 points.

          It just all matters how and when you run the defense.

          For instance. Within the 20 you wouldn't run a cover 3. WHY? Because you don't have to cover so much ground. You can allow your corner to be aggressive on the WR, give him a bump to disrupt the timing of the play. Let your safety be what he is, the SAFEty.

          You can mix the coverages as well. You can mix a cover 2 to one side while allowing the opposite corner to take a deep third responsibility essentially a cover 3.

          Another variation with the cover 2 is allowing man-to-man underneath. Again, This allows the corners to line up in a man coverage and be very aggressive. They don't have to worry about being beat deep. They can bite on that first move or "jump the route."

          One thing I'll say about receivers is they don't like the contact. In fact they hate it especially on the line of scrimmage. Very rarely will you see a WR that enjoys getting his a$$ kicked at the line of scrimmage. It gets him off of his route and it makes the QB have to wait for him to get separation. And usually by that time, the QB has turned to throw somewhere else.

          A good jam on a receiver can kill the confidence of an entire offense.

          Like I said, each coverage has it's weaknesses. But they also have their strengths.

          Comment


          • #6
            If Kiffin runs it I don't see the problem.

            Comment


            • #7
              Wow, some great posts I'd love to hear your breakdowns of other things too Yardo and Nick... *cough cough nudge nudge*
              Bronco fan from Packer Land.
              Lefty Writer on The Sports Show with Woody Paige and Les Shapiro
              Tweet me @JoRo_5551

              Comment


              • #8
                man this thread is refreshing. nick and yardo both make good points about the cover 2.

                my only question is why did we keep playing the cover 2 with indy? i mean coyer didnt want to change it up at all. like yardo said its good against the run. we all know the peyton loves to throw it. we were on 3rd an long and he still plays the cover 2?

                but in d-wills defense i do see how running this coverage could make him look bad. our safeties are not the fastest in the world. if carriker doesnt fall to pick #21 or simply cant get a good de with this pick then maybe we should get nelson. i think nelson would be a better fit in cover 2 or tampa 2.

                cps to both yardo and nick

                btw that route that the reciever runs on the outside is called a "chair" route. that is the double move that wayne put on dwill a couple of times.
                Last edited by DenBronx; 03-10-2007, 06:14 AM.
                sigpic

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DenBronx
                  man this thread is refreshing. nick and yardo both make good points about the cover 2.

                  my only question is why did we keep playing the cover 2 with indy? i mean coyer didnt want to change it up at all. like yardo said its good against the run. we all know the peyton loves to throw it. we were on 3rd an long and he still plays the cover 2?

                  but in d-wills defense i do see how running this coverage could make him look bad. our safeties are not the fastest in the world. if carriker doesnt fall to pick #21 or simply cant get a good de with this pick then maybe we should get nelson. i think nelson would be a better fit in cover 2 or tampa 2.

                  cps to both yardo and nick

                  btw that route that the reciever runs on the outside is called a "chair" route. that is the double move that wayne put on dwill a couple of times.
                  Actually thats not true. The cover 2 is not meant to be against the run and is usually pretty porous against the run. That is because the safety's are back deep and usually the linebackers are a few yards deeper than usual. That's why Indy had so much success running and throwing short screens to Adai.

                  We ran the cover 2 because it is meant to minimize big plays, but like Nick said, the safety's have a lot of responsibility and if they are slow(Lynch, Ferguson), they will get beat by Wayne.

                  With Indy, you have to play perfect defense to beat them. Pressure with the front four, perfect coverage that can't be shown before the snap, and showing blitz when Peyton audibles. If we were to blitz Manning more often, most likely he would have burned us even more.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NickTranOwnz
                    Without a good pass rush, the safeties have to continually move deeper and deeper. That stretches the weak spot between the safeties' and corners'/linebackers' zones.

                    A TE or RB on a block and release route can hit the jackpot there.
                    A fast WO on a drag route (run up 15 or 20 yards, then go 90 degrees) can catch the safeties off guard, even if the WO is in the safeties' zone. Zone coverage dictates that you must watch your own zone, and only your zone. No man coverage, only your zone. As a fast WO gets through the zones, the safeties are distracted. They must switch their position to better play him. Moreso if there are others running fade/fly routes. This leaves a momentary slowdown lapse when the safeties "hand-off" their assignment. In school, we have to yell "IN IN IN" or "CRACK CRACK CRACK" when that happens. Similar to a wheel route. With good timing, the QB can bullet a pass in there before the safeties can "hand-off" the assignment and get in position.

                    If the safeties and corners were to reverse roles immediately after the snap, that would be bad too. A fast WO can get behind the corners and safeties and reel in 6 points.
                    This is a great post! It illustrates what I was talking about in the other thread on Denver's CBs.

                    Here's the statistical breakdown that illustrates exactly what you're talking about, I quoted in another thread. All based on Football Outsider's ranking system:

                    Broncos secondary: (Lower Number is better)
                    DEN Versus #1 WR:Rating:-36.9% Rank: 1st Comment: Who's covering the #1 WR? Champ Bailey, that's who! Champ Bailey is the best CB in football, by far and the stats prove it!
                    DEN v. #2 WR: Rating:-16.3% Rank: 7th
                    Darrent Williams or Foxworth covered the #2 WR. They were excellent too!
                    DEN v. #3 WR:Rating: -18.8% Rank: 11th
                    Comment: 11th isn't bad, the nickel defense did it's job. Again, normally a CB but also Ferguson and Curome Cox when Ferguson went down.

                    So, if the CBs were blanketing WRs, then why did the Broncos oveall pass defense fall to 12th from 6th in 2005?

                    DEN v. TE:Rating: +4.8% Rank:19th
                    Denver v. RB: +13.0% Rank: 28th (ouch!)

                    Those guys were generally covered either by SS Lynch or by a LB.

                    Notice that the CBs and safties did their job, but the TEs and RBs killed the Broncos! Those are OUTLET receivers. That means the QB had time to check down to his 3rd and 4th receiver a LOT. Why? Because the Broncos pass-rush was mostly non-existent! If the Broncos had a decent pass-rush their overall defense would have been up there with the Ravens.

                    Also notice that the starting CBs were (combined) the best in football:
                    Denver: Rank: 1st Rating: -36.9 and Rank: 7th Rating: -16.3 = Total Rating: -53.2
                    Ravens CBs: Rank: 11 Rating:-7.0% and Rank 4 Rating: -29.5%
                    Total Ranking: -36.5.
                    Notice that TEs and RBs just KILLED the Broncos last year! They did well against the other team's WRs, but those block and release routes by the TEs and RBs just destroyed them. And those routes require TIME! Time for the safeties to get deep, time for the QB to check down to his #3 or #4 outlet receiver, time for the RB to block and then release out into the flat where the safeties have vacated the middle of the field.

                    You don't have that time if a 280 lbs. defensive lineman is in your face consistently, but against the Broncos anemic pass-rush they had all the time in the world.
                    Last edited by Cugel; 03-10-2007, 07:45 AM.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cugel
                      This is a great post! It illustrates what I was talking about in the other thread on Denver's CBs.

                      Here's the statistical breakdown that illustrates exactly what you're talking about, I quoted in another thread. All based on Football Outsider's ranking system:



                      Notice that TEs and RBs just KILLED the Broncos last year! They did well against the other team's WRs, but those block and release routes by the TEs and RBs just destroyed them. And those routes require TIME! Time for the safeties to get deep, time for the QB to check down to his #3 or #4 outlet receiver, time for the RB to block and then release out into the flat where the safeties have vacated the middle of the field.

                      You don't have that time if a 280 lbs. defensive lineman is in your face consistently, but against the Broncos anemic pass-rush they had all the time in the world.
                      This is very true, to run a cover 2 or tampa 2 effectively you need a pass rush!!!

                      Look at Chicago and Tampa Bay. They had a very good pass rush and ran it effectively.

                      The problem with the cover 2 we were running is, Lynch is not a good cover safety in this stage in his career. When Dwill would release his man into the safety's zone, Lynch or Ferguson couldn't get their in time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        well we definatly have the linebackers to play a tampa 2, but no way do we have the athletism with our safeties to play that, it is a very very effective defense when you have athletic safetys over the top

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I think that you are oversimplifying. You can line up in either of these and at the snap stem people into a cover 3, man free, or any one of a number over combo coverages (one side playing man while the other plays zone). For the play drawn up, you could play man underneath with two deep zone. You could play soft man on the backside with Gold and Bailey while you roll the weakside safety to the middle and give the strongside safety outside third.

                          If the D-coordinator has speed on the defense and he has imagination a cover 2 base defense can be very effective. LB speed is essential and either immediate pass recognition or speed by the safeties are huge pluses but you can make it work and work well.

                          If the QB is given more than 4 seconds to pass, no defense or personnel grouping is going to be successful.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There are so many variations of this defense alone that the Broncos run, we could talk forever but you guys really did a great job. I brought this up in the midst of the Williams debates a long time ago (not as fancy as graphics as Yardo - by the way, those rule) but still tried to demonstrate the same thing. CP to you guys when I can.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CarolinaPanther
                              Actually thats not true. The cover 2 is not meant to be against the run and is usually pretty porous against the run. That is because the safety's are back deep and usually the linebackers are a few yards deeper than usual. That's why Indy had so much success running and throwing short screens to Adai.

                              We ran the cover 2 because it is meant to minimize big plays, but like Nick said, the safety's have a lot of responsibility and if they are slow(Lynch, Ferguson), they will get beat by Wayne.

                              With Indy, you have to play perfect defense to beat them. Pressure with the front four, perfect coverage that can't be shown before the snap, and showing blitz when Peyton audibles. If we were to blitz Manning more often, most likely he would have burned us even more.


                              but in the cover 2 the safeties play deeper and linebackers closer to the line. its built for quicker safeties and for linebackers to read for the run.
                              sigpic

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X