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  • R. Mathis Vs Champ Bailey

    First of all, let me be clear that I'm not saying Mathis is on the same level as Champ. I think it's Champ, D Hall and then Rashean right now with Samuel close behind.

    My question is this though, as a Bronco fan, do you ever find yourself screaming in the stands or at the TV;

    "Bailey, what are you doing out there?...Your one of the best in the league, how can you get burned like that?!!!"

    I'm asking this because it seems like we do it a lot with "Shean". One game his guy won't even catch a pass and he gets 2 picks and the next game he gets burned by the play-action and Marvin Harrison scores 2 40 yard TDs.

    Are we just too hard on our guy? I mean his peers and coaches voted him to the All Pro team. I'm just starting to believe that it must happen to the great ones as well. I guess, in a 16 game season, how many times does Bailey get burned either for a long completion or a TD?

    Thanks in advance for any real replies.

    Good luck this year. Here'e to no stupid pre-season injuries... I really like Jay Cuttler, I think he still may be the best QB in that draft. You guys will be chasing New England this year just like the rest of the AFC, but we'll be right behind you. This D is gonna be sick. Do us a favor and beat Indi for us and we'll take out San Diego.

    Jaxcats07!!

  • #2
    wow guy mathis is lightyears ahead of deangelo hall

    Comment


    • #3
      and yeah i think your D is going to be sick as hell this year(was last year too). i just dunno about leftwich man

      Comment


      • #4
        NFL Net article that started our discusion.

        AFC clearly much better than NFC


        By Adam Schefter
        NFL Analyst



        The gap between the AFC and the NFC now is as wide as the one between a varsity team and its junior varsity.


        The AFC includes the Indianapolis Colts, the team that won last season's Super Bowl; the New England Patriots, the team favored to win this season's Super Bowl; and the San Diego Chargers, the most talented team not to win a Super Bowl.

        Any one of those powerhouses would be anointed the clear-cut favorite to win the NFC. Yet at least two, and possibly all three, will not survive in the AFC.


        The AFC boasts all the biggest talent, which includes league MVP LaDainian Tomlinson.
        The AFC's dominance goes well beyond its teams. At its root, it belongs to its players.

        The game's best quarterbacks -- Indianapolis' Peyton Manning and New England's Tom Brady -- play in the AFC. As do last season's Offensive and Defensive Rookie of the Year, Tennessee quarterback Vince Young and Houston linebacker DeMeco Ryans.


        The AFC boasts the game's best running backs with San Diego's LaDainian Tomlinson and Kansas City's Larry Johnson; the best tight ends with San Diego's Antonio Gates and Kansas City's Tony Gonzalez; the best pass rushers with Indianapolis' Dwight Freeney, Miami's Jason Taylor and San Diego's Shawne Merriman; the best cornerbacks with Denver's Champ Bailey and Jacksonville's Rashean Mathis.

        http://nfl.com/nflnetwork/story/10033511
        Last edited by Jaxcats07; 05-11-2007, 01:50 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Combo1985
          and yeah i think your D is going to be sick as hell this year(was last year too). i just dunno about leftwich man
          Yeah, join the club. I'm one of his biggest fans...but this is the last year I can defend him anymore. It's a contract year and he has no choice but to blow up and somehow find a way to play 16+ games.

          I wounded animal is dangerous, and I think Byron feels that way. He is on a mission. A Mission to shut everyone up and a mission to get paid.

          He's got a different look to him in camp right now with a bounce in his step. I really have a good feeling this year for Bleft. He's a good guy and doesn't deserve the injuries or the criticism he gets.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jaxcats07
            First of all, let me be clear that I'm not saying Mathis is on the same level as Champ. I think it's Champ, D Hall and then Rashean right now with Samuel close behind.

            My question is this though, as a Bronco fan, do you ever find yourself screaming in the stands or at the TV;

            "Bailey, what are you doing out there?...Your one of the best in the league, how can you get burned like that?!!!"

            I'm asking this because it seems like we do it a lot with "Shean". One game his guy won't even catch a pass and he gets 2 picks and the next game he gets burned by the play-action and Marvin Harrison scores 2 40 yard TDs.

            Are we just too hard on our guy? I mean his peers and coaches voted him to the All Pro team. I'm just starting to believe that it must happen to the great ones as well. I guess, in a 16 game season, how many times does Bailey get burned either for a long completion or a TD?

            Thanks in advance for any real replies.

            Good luck this year. Here'e to no stupid pre-season injuries... I really like Jay Cuttler, I think he still may be the best QB in that draft. You guys will be chasing New England this year just like the rest of the AFC, but we'll be right behind you. This D is gonna be sick. Do us a favor and beat Indi for us and we'll take out San Diego.

            Jaxcats07!!


            Well, when Champ first arrived 2004-2005, he got burned a couple times.

            But in 2006, he was almost perfect.

            Whenever the opposing QB threw at him, he made them pay.

            It's mind boggling that Champ got 10 int's with so few oppertunities.

            He totally got jipped on Defensive Player of the Year.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by The Dark Knight
              Well, when Champ first arrived 2004-2005, he got burned a couple times.

              But in 2006, he was almost perfect.

              Whenever the opposing QB threw at him, he made them pay.

              It's mind boggling that Champ got 10 int's with so few oppertunities.

              He totally got jipped on Defensive Player of the Year.
              Champ did get burned alot in 04. In 05 it always seemed he would make the big play right after getting burned... or vice versa. He was almost perfect last year though, all the plays he made. I can only think of one play where he screwed up(Pitt game when he wrapped up Hines Ward and fell off him, Hines turned it into a huge gain).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Combo1985
                Champ did get burned alot in 04. In 05 it always seemed he would make the big play right after getting burned... or vice versa. He was almost perfect last year though, all the plays he made. I can only think of one play where he screwed up(Pitt game when he wrapped up Hines Ward and fell off him, Hines turned it into a huge gain).
                It seems to me that in 05, almost all of the times that he got burned was because of a missed assignment and not him getting beat.

                Basically, he'd release his guy to nobody where somebody was supposed to be there.

                Anyway, the Jags have a much better defensive line than we do. I'm hoping that we can turn that around a bit, but when taking our lackluster performance of our defensive line, it becomes even more impressive what Champ has been able to do.

                And, he's faced some terrific recievers and still been able to shut them down. Chad Johnson had a good game a couple of years back against him and so did Jerry Porter, but overall, he's been stellar. He's completely shut down many terrific wide recievers without a pass rush to speak of to help.

                Anyway, it will be interesting to see what he'll look like under Bates. I wasn't a gigantic Coyer fan, but I did think that Coyer playing champ off of the reciever often helped us. Champ has good closing speed and could react to short passes, so we didn't give those up, but he was also able to better read the QB and react to the ball when we played him off the reciever a bit. I think that Coyer's scheme did help him get more picks than he might have otherwise.

                He will be less read and react if we play him on the line, but the fact that he'll be able to disrupt the route will be nice. And Champ is so athletic, that I'm sure he'll still get his share of picks.

                Mathis isn't in Champ's league, but he's a good corner.
                Last edited by Archimedes Owl; 05-11-2007, 03:38 PM.
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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Jaxcats07
                  First of all, let me be clear that I'm not saying Mathis is on the same level as Champ. I think it's Champ, D Hall and then Rashean right now with Samuel close behind.

                  My question is this though, as a Bronco fan, do you ever find yourself screaming in the stands or at the TV;

                  "Bailey, what are you doing out there?...Your one of the best in the league, how can you get burned like that?!!!"

                  I'm asking this because it seems like we do it a lot with "Shean". One game his guy won't even catch a pass and he gets 2 picks and the next game he gets burned by the play-action and Marvin Harrison scores 2 40 yard TDs.

                  Are we just too hard on our guy? I mean his peers and coaches voted him to the All Pro team. I'm just starting to believe that it must happen to the great ones as well. I guess, in a 16 game season, how many times does Bailey get burned either for a long completion or a TD?

                  Thanks in advance for any real replies.

                  Good luck this year. Here'e to no stupid pre-season injuries... I really like Jay Cuttler, I think he still may be the best QB in that draft. You guys will be chasing New England this year just like the rest of the AFC, but we'll be right behind you. This D is gonna be sick. Do us a favor and beat Indi for us and we'll take out San Diego.

                  Jaxcats07!!
                  Buddy...i truly have to say that i didn't see Champ get burned one time last year, i think even in Bates system he'll let Champ play off and still get picks, i guess if you have a corner that good that you might as well let him play to his strenth

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jaxcats07
                    First of all, let me be clear that I'm not saying Mathis is on the same level as Champ. I think it's Champ, D Hall and then Rashean right now with Samuel close behind.

                    My question is this though, as a Bronco fan, do you ever find yourself screaming in the stands or at the TV;

                    "Bailey, what are you doing out there?...Your one of the best in the league, how can you get burned like that?!!!"

                    I'm asking this because it seems like we do it a lot with "Shean". One game his guy won't even catch a pass and he gets 2 picks and the next game he gets burned by the play-action and Marvin Harrison scores 2 40 yard TDs.

                    Are we just too hard on our guy? I mean his peers and coaches voted him to the All Pro team. I'm just starting to believe that it must happen to the great ones as well. I guess, in a 16 game season, how many times does Bailey get burned either for a long completion or a TD?

                    Thanks in advance for any real replies.

                    Good luck this year. Here'e to no stupid pre-season injuries... I really like Jay Cuttler, I think he still may be the best QB in that draft. You guys will be chasing New England this year just like the rest of the AFC, but we'll be right behind you. This D is gonna be sick. Do us a favor and beat Indi for us and we'll take out San Diego.

                    Jaxcats07!!

                    Last year Champ did not allow a single touchdown.

                    The opposition threw at him on average 3 times a game... and in those throws he still had 10 picks. I think they had something like less than 500 yards passing against him? I may be wrong there though.


                    I do not remember yelling at Champ the past two seasons. I know he got burnt once by TO a couple years ago, but at that point we were up big.. and it seemed that season (our 13-3 year) the only times he would allow something big was when we were up by a lot.

                    I think Mathis is arguably the second best corner in the league, but noone even comes close to touching Champ, and I am not usually one to say that about my teams players so I don't come off as biased cuz I'm not.
                    Bronco fan from Packer Land.
                    Lefty Writer on The Sports Show with Woody Paige and Les Shapiro
                    Tweet me @JoRo_5551

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Champ is in a league of his own. After his league, there is everyone else tied for a distant second. That group includes, but is not limited to, Mathis, Samuel, Terrence Newman, etc. I don't think one great season automatically puts Mathis in a group titled "Best Corners in the League". Consistency is what makes a player great. Champ is Mr. Consistent.

                      I never caught myself yelling at Champ because I knew at all times he was the best player on the field. I yelled at Derrant Williams a lot though.
                      Originally posted by Soldier96B
                      i also took a crap and it was orange

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        lol, I don't question champs play.

                        He plays the Q.B. AND the W.R. on an island by himself and wins more than he loses.



                        p.s.

                        We have'nt chased N.E. for years.

                        We just need to stop chasing our own tail.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Where is Chris McAllister when you need him?

                          i think there are a few corners in the AFC that can handle Mathis

                          seems like everyone forgot about Dre.........Bly

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by SM19
                            I don't think I've once said anything of the sort in the last two years. Except perhaps when I'm playing Madden.

                            I don't really think you're too hard on Mathis either. He's good, yeah, but he does get beat a lot. I don't think his mental game is anywhere near Bailey's, as I've seen him at least a few times get beaten on routes that had already been a big part of the opposing team's game plan the previous week. Bailey's one of the best athletes in the league, but it's his recognition skills that really make him dangerous. Mathis doesn't really have those skills yet.
                            Nice!
                            This statement is how someone should define Champ.
                            quote
                            Bailey's one of the best athletes in the league, but it's his recognition skills that really make him dangerous. Mathis doesn't really have those skills yet.


                            BTW, anyone who gives Champ a hard time for the 2005 season must remember that he had a seperated shoulder for the whole season and a pulled hammy for like half the season! My freakin freinds gave me a hard time because he ran out of gas after that int against Pretty Boy in the playoffs and Watson caught him. Then i explained why he was wearing that shoulder wrap and his leg injury...........................they just said........ oh....uh......nice play!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              To me Champ has picked his game up a lot since last season,truely separating himself from the other CBs.He used to get burned by Chad Johnson or Terrell Owens but last season he shut down all the #1 receivers.That was pretty impressive.He will do the same this season.

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