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  • Double Standard? The rules of engagement...

    Okay, I like Coach Shanahan and all, and I love the Broncos. But I can't help but make this observation. With all this talk about Kircus and this lie detector process, and Shanny coming out with the hard line "if he didn't pass he wouldn't be with us right now" bit, its all very impressive and makes you think the Broncs really care about integrity/player behavior.

    I wonder how the situation would be changed if this were say.......Champ Bailey? Jay Cutler? Javon Walker? What happened to Jake when he had his road rage incident?

    I mean come on, Kircus is what, like 7th on the WR depth chart??? You can't tell me there wouldn't be a softer stance if this were a player who actually was a huge part of the team. Not to mention that polygraphs can be incredibly inaccurate (which is why they are usually not admissable as evidence in court). It seems like a big show being put on here - lots of smoke and mirrors.

    What do you all think?
    To permit irresponsible authority is to sell disaster. (Heinlein)...like Broncos season tickets!

  • #2
    All I can say is there will be different tolerance levels for the players based on their needed role.

    comparing this to Jakes incident is like apples and oranges. Jake got upset and yelled at some guy. Kircus dodged a punch and then broke the guys face in.

    I dont see how these are similiar but either way the stars will get more special treatment regardless since they are needed more.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Humberg
      Okay, I like Coach Shanahan and all, and I love the Broncos. But I can't help but make this observation. With all this talk about Kircus and this lie detector process, and Shanny coming out with the hard line "if he didn't pass he wouldn't be with us right now" bit, its all very impressive and makes you think the Broncs really care about integrity/player behavior.

      I wonder how the situation would be changed if this were say.......Champ Bailey? Jay Cutler? Javon Walker? What happened to Jake when he had his road rage incident?

      I mean come on, Kircus is what, like 7th on the WR depth chart??? You can't tell me there wouldn't be a softer stance if this were a player who actually was a huge part of the team. Not to mention that polygraphs can be incredibly inaccurate (which is why they are usually not admissable as evidence in court). It seems like a big show being put on here - lots of smoke and mirrors.

      What do you all think?
      Would there be a softer stance? Shannahan did the right thing in being he disfused the court of public opinion which already had Kircus guilty, serving time, etc.

      I stated in another thread when all had convicted Kircus of his act-the good ole American way these days of calling a person guilty without all the facts that a man is innocent until proven guilty.

      The thread that had Kircus already hanging by his thumbs is what is troubling about our society today. The "rush to justice" without knowing a bit of the true facts.

      Shanahan did right with the polygraph. Even above with the polygraph taken you try to dismiss it's results. Perhaps you would like a public lynching in Mile High before his court date? That's the way they did things in the old south about 40-50 years ago.

      You call it a "double standard". I call it the right thing to do.
      As the great divide in America continues we are causing harm to our future generations by avoiding what needs to be done.

      More people recognize Britney Spears than Dick Cheney.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Humberg
        Okay, I like Coach Shanahan and all, and I love the Broncos. But I can't help but make this observation. With all this talk about Kircus and this lie detector process, and Shanny coming out with the hard line "if he didn't pass he wouldn't be with us right now" bit, its all very impressive and makes you think the Broncs really care about integrity/player behavior.

        I wonder how the situation would be changed if this were say.......Champ Bailey? Jay Cutler? Javon Walker? What happened to Jake when he had his road rage incident?

        I mean come on, Kircus is what, like 7th on the WR depth chart??? You can't tell me there wouldn't be a softer stance if this were a player who actually was a huge part of the team. Not to mention that polygraphs can be incredibly inaccurate (which is why they are usually not admissable as evidence in court). It seems like a big show being put on here - lots of smoke and mirrors.

        What do you all think?
        Jimmy Johnson once told a story about how a player had fallen asleep during a meeting and that he cut the player from the team. He said the player asked him, "Coach, what if it had been Troy Aikman sleeping?" Jimmy replied, "You know what I would have done, I would have tipped toed back there and whispered 'Hey Troy, wake up'."

        Coaches have to win to keep their jobs so they are going to give more slack to the better players, especially starters. They don't have time to waste on players who are just as likely to be back working at Subway as they are making the team as a tackling dummy. Kircus is probably lucky that Shanahan is his coach rather than just about any other coach. Another coach just might have cut him the moment he was arrested.

        I don't think there are smoke and mirrors involved here. Shanahan was probably leaning towards cutting Kircus but decided to give him a chance by having him take the polygraph. Kircus passed, so now he gets to compete for his job on the field rather than in a court of law. Good for him. When he's making his next Subway sandwich, he can do so with pride, knowing that he gave it his best on the field of competition and that one of the best coaches in the NFL showed some faith in him.
        Last edited by broncolee; 05-30-2007, 06:53 AM.
        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
        You Mad Bro?
        Don’t Be A Mean Girl

        Comment


        • #5
          Honestly, I think Shanahan was feeding us a load. From a legal standpoint the team would be vulnerable if we cut Kircus over a failed lie-detector test, he would have a grievance and would be given a sack of money.

          I think the team gave him the test to get a chance to put some positive information out into the media, as it often happens people had already judged him and cut him from the team. Now there is some positive things floating around out there and some people will begin to doubt if he is guilty or not. This means the team can carry him on the roster without all the negative press and negative attitudes towards the team.

          It also means if the team feels later in camp that he will be found guilty of assault or that he will take a lesser charge and pleed guilty, he can be cut as part of numbers crunch to protect the team from litigation.

          I think the team did what they had to to help an employee and make their own position much easier.

          Comment


          • #6
            Tolerance? Common now.....he is being charged with a felony. I think that is a tad more serious than Jake's road rage incident. I think Shanny is being very tolerant by giving him a chance with the test.

            Btw, you have to be sociopath, pathalogical liar type insane to pass the test when being administered by someone who knows how to do it.
            sigpic

            http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_1804775

            Comment


            • #7
              I think it's kind of dumb to get all worked up about a what it question. To be clear as well it isn't a double standard, all back-up wide receivers have the same standard. If you aren't worth the hassle you get cut.

              Comment


              • #8
                Ummm . . . as we sit here, staring at our respective monitors, why don't we wait and
                see what the facts are, rather than fabricating the facts according to our feeble
                imaginations and publishing them on the board?

                Seems that's the best way to be fair to people.

                -----

                Comment


                • #9
                  Such is the Corporate/Business world (of which the NFL is a part of). You know the saying..."money talks and BS walks"! If a player in any sport makes a significant difference to the organizations bottom line there will be what can be construed as preferential treatment!

                  Think about it...Roger Clemens will start making between 8 to 12 thousand dollars per pitch starting Monday vs. the White Sox; and he doesn’t even have to travel with the team. How in the world do you justify that kind of payola, never mind the preferential treatment? :paper:

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sure there would be a difference between handling a Champ Bailey, Jay Cutler, Rod Smith, or Javon Walker, and handling David Kircus. These guys are starters Kircus isn't. Which one is easier to replace your starting quarterback or your number 4 receiver?

                    That being said I would expect that even player like Champ Bailey would be disciplined.
                    John 11: 25-27

                    My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                    Thanks Snk16

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by topscribe
                      Ummm . . . as we sit here, staring at our respective monitors, why don't we wait and
                      see what the facts are, rather than fabricating the facts according to our feeble
                      imaginations and publishing them on the board?

                      Seems that's the best way to be fair to people.

                      -----

                      There it is.

                      None of use know all the details right now, and it will be up to the legal system to determine what happened. The successful polygraph has kept Kircus on the team for now (although it is a good point: what would have happened if he had failed?) If Kircus is found at guilty in the courts, I doubt you'll see him in a Bronco uniform afterwards. If he is found innocent, than the Broncos did not cut an innocent man as a knee-jerk reaction. Either way, this is being handled well, and I give credit to Shanahan and the Broncos organization for keeping a cool head on this one.
                      "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." -Yogi Berra

                      "All models are wrong, but some are useful."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by topscribe
                        Ummm . . . as we sit here, staring at our respective monitors, why don't we wait and
                        see what the facts are, rather than fabricating the facts according to our feeble
                        imaginations and publishing them on the board?

                        Seems that's the best way to be fair to people.

                        -----
                        I thought the point of the thread was to ask the question "Would Shanahan handle someone like Champ Bailey differently than he would David Kircus?"
                        John 11: 25-27

                        My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                        Thanks Snk16

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by broncolee
                          Another coach just might have cut him the moment he was arrested.

                          Not if he played for the Bengals....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Obviously there would have been a softer stance. It's the investment part of sports. Do you really think Titans are going to flat out release Pac Man, or the Bengals releasing Chris Henry?

                            No.

                            Why?

                            Potential.

                            Teams will risk more, and take more flack, if it's going to be a better investment for them.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think a lot of Vets (like Champ) who have proven themselves deserve a little more benefit of the doubt. Don't kid yourself though- this is the real world and people make real world decisions.

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