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  • Lie detector test, Seriously?

    As a die hard Broncos fan and relative of the man Kircus allegedly assaulted, I have been following the story quite closely. I am a little disappointed in Mike for saying Kircus would be in the clear after a polygraph. There is a reason they are inadmissable as evidence in court, they are not accurate. I would be much more sure of the "evidence" had it been extracted by one of the CIA interrogators at GITMO. I don't know who threw the first punch, I don't care, that is for the court to decide. Evidence aside, as a witness of character, there is a greater chance that the first punch was thrown by special guest Muhammed Ali, before being thrown by my cousin. After the criminal court recesses, if Kircus is cleared, then Shanny's decision to polygraph will seem irrelevant. If not, the Broncos Organization will not have the same credibility when it comes to the discipline of it's players.

  • #2
    Shanny never said he was in the clear.

    I realise that you are close to the situation, but Kircus volunteered to take the test, and Shanny said he was still on the team.

    If he is found guilty by a court of law(as opposed to the more popular court of public opinion/media), then I have no doubt that Shanny and the FO will deal with him in the appropriate fashion.

    Innocent til proven guilty.
    President of the GPA, Head of Mainland Europe Chapter




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    • #3
      Originally posted by jasonam07
      As a die hard Broncos fan and relative of the man Kircus allegedly assaulted, I have been following the story quite closely. I am a little disappointed in Mike for saying Kircus would be in the clear after a polygraph. There is a reason they are inadmissable as evidence in court, they are not accurate. I would be much more sure of the "evidence" had it been extracted by one of the CIA interrogators at GITMO. I don't know who threw the first punch, I don't care, that is for the court to decide. Evidence aside, as a witness of character, there is a greater chance that the first punch was thrown by special guest Muhammed Ali, before being thrown by my cousin. After the criminal court recesses, if Kircus is cleared, then Shanny's decision to polygraph will seem irrelevant. If not, the Broncos Organization will not have the same credibility when it comes to the discipline of it's players.

      First: Kircus volunteered to take the polygraph test and Shanny agreed.

      Second: in the 'clear' only means he (Kircus) can continue to compete for a roster spot. However, if he is found guilty, the comissioner will more than likely suspend Kircus for some time.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by Kapaibro
        Shanny never said he was in the clear.

        I realise that you are close to the situation, but Kircus volunteered to take the test, and Shanny said he was still on the team.

        If he is found guilty by a court of law(as opposed to the more popular court of public opinion/media), then I have no doubt that Shanny and the FO will deal with him in the appropriate fashion.

        Innocent til proven guilty.
        The reports after the polygraph indicate that the Broncos will not discipline Kircus regardless of the outcome of the criminal case.

        The question now appears to be, what will the NFL do, if Kircus is found guilty? Will Roger Goodell accept the results of the polygraph or will he only go by the outcome of the criminal case?

        I don't know who suggested the polygraph first but it appears that it was inappropriate regardless of who suggested it. My guess is that the NFL will go by the outcome of the criminal case.

        Originally posted by jasonam07
        As a die hard Broncos fan and relative of the man Kircus allegedly assaulted, I have been following the story quite closely. I am a little disappointed in Mike for saying Kircus would be in the clear after a polygraph. There is a reason they are inadmissable as evidence in court, they are not accurate. I would be much more sure of the "evidence" had it been extracted by one of the CIA interrogators at GITMO. I don't know who threw the first punch, I don't care, that is for the court to decide. Evidence aside, as a witness of character, there is a greater chance that the first punch was thrown by special guest Muhammed Ali, before being thrown by my cousin. After the criminal court recesses, if Kircus is cleared, then Shanny's decision to polygraph will seem irrelevant. If not, the Broncos Organization will not have the same credibility when it comes to the discipline of it's players.
        Even if Kircus is convicted, I doubt it will affect the credibility of the Broncos organization when it comes to disciplining players. It's not like the justice system is beyond reproach. There have been plenty of innocent people who have been vindicated after spending years in prison for crimes they didn't commit. Besides, Shanahan has a reputation for taking chances on guys with character issues. He obviously believes Kircus is worth the risk. Considering that Kircus will be in a fight just to make the roster, I'm not sure that he was worth the risk. If I were the one making the decision, I probably would have cut Kircus the moment he was arrested. I'm not disappointed with Shanahan's decision to keep Kircus on the team though. Shanahan's decision is consistant with his past decisions on similar matters.
        My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
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        • #5
          Originally posted by jasonam07
          As a die hard Broncos fan and relative of the man Kircus allegedly assaulted, I have been following the story quite closely. I am a little disappointed in Mike for saying Kircus would be in the clear after a polygraph. There is a reason they are inadmissable as evidence in court, they are not accurate. I would be much more sure of the "evidence" had it been extracted by one of the CIA interrogators at GITMO. I don't know who threw the first punch, I don't care, that is for the court to decide. Evidence aside, as a witness of character, there is a greater chance that the first punch was thrown by special guest Muhammed Ali, before being thrown by my cousin. After the criminal court recesses, if Kircus is cleared, then Shanny's decision to polygraph will seem irrelevant. If not, the Broncos Organization will not have the same credibility when it comes to the discipline of it's players.

          Where did Shanahan say Kircus is in the clear? From what I have read that is not the case, Kircus is being allowed to stay on the team for now, if he's cleared by the leagal system then he'll have a chance to keep his roster spot if he isn't Shanahan will have to drop him.

          I don't see this tarnishing the organization unless they stick by him even if he is convicted. And as I said I don't Shanahan doing that.
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          • #6
            I'd like to know what they were fighting over. I hope for Kircus' sake it was a really hot chick. Maybe it was the last beer in the cooler. My point being experience has taught me that fights at parties are usually between two drunk idiots who are too liquored up and haven't hooked up with a girl yet that night. I also want to know why only one person was arrested? Did Kircus outwardly seek out this person and assault him or was it a mutual fight. Because if they were mutually fighting then both should have been booked. I wasn't there....I hooked up early that night

            j/k

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Hoss
              I'd like to know what they were fighting over. I hope for Kircus' sake it was a really hot chick. Maybe it was the last beer in the cooler. My point being experience has taught me that fights at parties are usually between two drunk idiots who are too liquored up and haven't hooked up with a girl yet that night. I also want to know why only one person was arrested? Did Kircus outwardly seek out this person and assault him or was it a mutual fight. Because if they were mutually fighting then both should have been booked. I wasn't there....I hooked up early that night

              j/k
              The story is that Kircus got into an argument with the woman that invited him to the party. The owner of the house asked him to leave. The two apparently argued out by Kircus' truck and that's apparently where at least one punch was thrown. http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_5952566

              So it apparently did involve a woman but we may never know why.
              My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
              You Mad Bro?
              Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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              • #8
                Originally posted by broncolee
                The reports after the polygraph indicate that the Broncos will not discipline Kircus regardless of the outcome of the criminal case..
                The article I read (and that was posted here) had Shanny saying that AT THIS TIME he was happy for Kircus to stay with the time, and that he would let the legal system run it's course.

                He wasn't going to fire a guy because he MIGHT be guilty.
                President of the GPA, Head of Mainland Europe Chapter




                formerly Officially Adopted by saltybuggah
                I adopted Skywalker

                I have been adopted by Chris Wade

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                • #9
                  anyone that thinks that lie detector tests aren't accurate have been watching too many movies. They are very accurate if the right questions are asked.

                  IMO, any guy that is following another guy to the curb after an argument wasn't doing it to make sure the guy left. He was prob. looking for trouble.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Kapaibro
                    The article I read (and that was posted here) had Shanny saying that AT THIS TIME he was happy for Kircus to stay with the time, and that he would let the legal system run it's course.

                    He wasn't going to fire a guy because he MIGHT be guilty.
                    Here's an article that indicates that the outcome of the criminal case is irrelevant as far as the Broncos are concerned: http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...46?source=poll

                    Of course, Kircus could still be cut just as a result of competition or if there are new elements of the criminal case that come out that weren't a part of the polygraph questioning and not yet revealed to the public or to the Broncos organization.
                    My Opinion isn’t determined by what the Popular Opinion is. Sometimes I agree with the Majority, Sometimes I Don’t. If My Opinion is Different than Yours, I have to Ask One Question:
                    You Mad Bro?
                    Don’t Be A Mean Girl

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 22cannon
                      anyone that thinks that lie detector tests aren't accurate have been watching too many movies. They are very accurate if the right questions are asked.

                      IMO, any guy that is following another guy to the curb after an argument wasn't doing it to make sure the guy left. He was prob. looking for trouble.
                      I agree on the lie detector issue. Yes, they can be beaten but not nearly to the extent people assume.

                      You bring up a good point regarding where this incident happened.

                      As for the relative of the alleged- sorry to hear about your cousin. Just remember there is ALWAYS more than one side to a story.

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                      • #12
                        I want to start saying that I wasn't there, I don't know what happened so anything I will say here is just speculation.

                        First I want to state that I have noticed lately a trend where relatively famous people (who usually have in common a higher than average income) such as pro athletes have been involved in more incidents. This might well be due to a superiority feeling of these people, thinking that their celebrity status places them beyond the law. But, it also could be due to the fact that people aware of their fame and fortune try to take advantage of that situation.

                        So, probably the healthiest thing to do in this case is just wait and see until there is a court decision.

                        Now, let's be pragmatic: forget about this incident... even pretending it didn't happen, how likely was in the first place that Kircus would end up in the 53 men roster? Last season he was competent playing special teams, and had some very few moments as a WR, but he was hardly projected above a #5 or #6 receiver (even considering his special teams play). Put it this way, his expected contribution during the offseason was pushing the other receivers to play better, and getting lucky, get a very low impact roster spot.

                        There might be some matter of principles in Shanahan's actions (just like who started the thread says is a character witness, Shanahan probably plays the same role there), but speaking strictly about football, my guess is that all this has to do with "leveling the playing field" for everyone. If the Morgans, Stokleys, Hixons et al. perceived that Kircus is handicapped to get a roster spot, they might not exert as much effort as otherwise.

                        One of these tests, even though it doesn't prove anything, gives the coaches credibility that pending court/league decisions about this case, they will stick to football reasons regarding Kircus and the WR position.

                        My forecast, he will be cut, and the reason stated will be due to performance. What would the real reasons be? We would need to apply the lie detector to Shanahan .

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jasonam07
                          As a die hard Broncos fan and relative of the man Kircus allegedly assaulted, I have been following the story quite closely. I am a little disappointed in Mike for saying Kircus would be in the clear after a polygraph. There is a reason they are inadmissable as evidence in court, they are not accurate. I would be much more sure of the "evidence" had it been extracted by one of the CIA interrogators at GITMO. I don't know who threw the first punch, I don't care, that is for the court to decide. Evidence aside, as a witness of character, there is a greater chance that the first punch was thrown by special guest Muhammed Ali, before being thrown by my cousin. After the criminal court recesses, if Kircus is cleared, then Shanny's decision to polygraph will seem irrelevant. If not, the Broncos Organization will not have the same credibility when it comes to the discipline of it's players.

                          whats wrong with that?...all is comes down to is kircus asked or told shanny his story and said he was only defending himself...he volunteered to take the test to prove to shanny he was telling the truth...after passing it shanny only says they can now just move on and let the legal system handle it since he believe kircus is telling the truth...theres no loss of credibility

                          as for not knowing who took the first swing...shanny now believs kircus is telling the truth, just as you believe your cousin didnt...and for your info...it doesnt mean your cousin had to take a swing...anything in a physical manner , grabbing, pushing, kicking, trowing something as in a beercan is and can be a reason to protect yourself by throwing a punch..if the guy so much as pushed him during the verbal altercation, then that can be constituted as kircus was only defending himself


                          and if thats the way it happened then it doesnt matter what happened after that, if kircus defended himself by punching the guy resulting in breaking his nose or jaw then its justified in the law
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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by jasonam07
                            As a die hard Broncos fan and relative of the man Kircus allegedly assaulted, I have been following the story quite closely. I am a little disappointed in Mike for saying Kircus would be in the clear after a polygraph. There is a reason they are inadmissable as evidence in court, they are not accurate. I would be much more sure of the "evidence" had it been extracted by one of the CIA interrogators at GITMO. I don't know who threw the first punch, I don't care, that is for the court to decide. Evidence aside, as a witness of character, there is a greater chance that the first punch was thrown by special guest Muhammed Ali, before being thrown by my cousin. After the criminal court recesses, if Kircus is cleared, then Shanny's decision to polygraph will seem irrelevant. If not, the Broncos Organization will not have the same credibility when it comes to the discipline of it's players.

                            So wait a sec. you know the guy who got beat up but you dont care who threw the first punch? Sounds fishy if it was part of my family I think I would care. Im sure yah know what happened if its your cousin so enlighten all of us!



                            First it was best team not to make the Play Offs. Then it was best team not to win a play off game. This year its best team to go 8-8.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jasonam07
                              As a die hard Broncos fan and relative of the man Kircus allegedly assaulted, I have been following the story quite closely. I am a little disappointed in Mike for saying Kircus would be in the clear after a polygraph. There is a reason they are inadmissable as evidence in court, they are not accurate. I would be much more sure of the "evidence" had it been extracted by one of the CIA interrogators at GITMO. I don't know who threw the first punch, I don't care, that is for the court to decide. Evidence aside, as a witness of character, there is a greater chance that the first punch was thrown by special guest Muhammed Ali, before being thrown by my cousin. After the criminal court recesses, if Kircus is cleared, then Shanny's decision to polygraph will seem irrelevant. If not, the Broncos Organization will not have the same credibility when it comes to the discipline of it's players.
                              I respect your point of view.... however, I don't think anyone is saying that he's 'in the clear.' Mike is giving him the benefit of the doubt. The lie detector is a way for Kircus to try and prove to Shanahan and the teammates that he isn't out there just trying to start fights. Giving himself a chance to be on the team, until this is solved in court.

                              Another thing. The polygraph test is NOT that inaccurate. ITs not accepted in a court of law because of the nature of the beast, a 'shadow' of a doubt. There is no doubt that the polygraph immediatly offers a 'shadow' of a doubt, but in NO WAY is it something that is considered to be completely unreliable.

                              So although I respect your position, and certainly understand your point of view and where it is coming from, the polygraph test given to Kevin Kircus certainly is more than enough evidence to keep Kevin from being released from the team because of an accusation.

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