Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Preseason or No Preseason

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    The point is Bates and ther broncos said they were looking for improvement in the browns game, especially on D. There was hardly any improvement to be seen, and all of a sudden it was because it was preseason, its a poor excuse people need to stop using.
    It's not an excuse! You just can't tell from the pre-season whether a team is any good or not.

    As others have pointed out, last year the Oakland Raiders won 4 pre-season games and generally looked good doing it. People wrote articles about how Oakland was turning things around, how Aaron Brooks looked sharp in practice and the pre-season, how the Raiders offense might be ready to make some noise, etc.

    All B.S. as it turned out. When the games counted the Raiders wilted like an ice-sculpture in the August sun.

    As I pointed out above, you can't tell whether a team will suck or not from the pre-season. At best you can tell whether individual players are performing well. We know that D.J. has been struggling, and that Dumervil and Nate Webster and Brandon Marshall have looked good. Beyond that, nobody has a clue.

    Leave a comment:


  • Darkman
    replied
    Season is about W-L records. Preseason is to warm up, to evaluate, to try new schemes, to adapt to the system, etc. One thing about preseason that's annoying to me is why should I buy an expensive ticket to watch the game which is no different from training camp?
    Last edited by Darkman; 08-27-2007, 06:39 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    yes... it does. You do know they film their practices.. you do know that REAL practices supercede any pre-season games.. right? Pre-season games are just not looked at as 'real' games. They are nothing more than a practice at most. Sure it has the lights, the crowd, the tv.... but in reality its just a scrimmage. The coaches are just looking at things no differently than practice.. because there is nothing MORE than practice on the field. Maybe a little bit more adrenaline for the younger players.

    So yes... I would say regular practices, and regular practice tape is MUCH more important than any pre-season games.... yup.
    For all the reasons players dont try very hard in games, why woudl they in preseason practices?

    You cant simulate real game situations in practice like you can in games, even preseason games.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    ravage, reviewing practice tape? Does practice tape supercede preseason games? LOL ok fine, since I got an infraction from my last post, I wont go into it further.
    yes... it does. You do know they film their practices.. you do know that REAL practices supercede any pre-season games.. right? Pre-season games are just not looked at as 'real' games. They are nothing more than a practice at most. Sure it has the lights, the crowd, the tv.... but in reality its just a scrimmage. The coaches are just looking at things no differently than practice.. because there is nothing MORE than practice on the field. Maybe a little bit more adrenaline for the younger players.

    So yes... I would say regular practices, and regular practice tape is MUCH more important than any pre-season games.... yup.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    How are we going to decide on who makes the 53 man roster? Seriously? By practices. By watching the day-to-day training and grinds. By seeing on the practice field and watching the practice tape. By seeing how they scrimmage against not only us, but against the other teams we scrimmage against during the week.

    How are we going to decide if Bates system is going to work with the personel we have?? You think PRE-Season tells them this? Seriously? Because in the 3 games that the starting guys play, they get one SERIES in game one, MAYBE one quarter in game 2,and MAYBE a half in game three. Do you REALLY HONESTLY believe that ANY decisions made by WELL KNOWN veteran coaches in this league are making Major decisions, personel, and schemes based on pre-season games??? Come on... get serious. I PROMISE you.. PROMISE you, that the coaches could (and would if they were allowed) make the EXACT same personel decisions with just regular practices and with the workouts they have with other teams. There is NOT ANY kind of REAL competition on the field in pre-season games to make a decision that would effect the team that they didn't already know from from practice time and training camp time. Vets don't want to be on the field during pre-season.. those are games that can only injure them, and keep them out of the regular season. Pre-season just means potential for injury and a lost season and pay.

    There are college programs ALLLL over the nation that run complicated offense and defensive schemes that not only don't get the full year workout that the pros do, but do NOT have pre-season games, and they go out and play their first game each and every year. I know you are going to say "but they aren't NFL complicated or as fast as the NFL".. but those college teams also don't have the majority of the roster filled with experienced vets like NFL teams have. I would bet my year's paycheck, that the NFL coaches could make the SAME talent evaluations, scheme evaluations, and personnel evaluations... then START the season and play at the VERY SAME quality of play that we will see on opening day with OUT pre-season games.

    When you have vets that are basically playing not to get hurt. When the game intensity just doesn't matter. When you have two different coaches not game planning, running both vanilla offenses and defenses, and both looking for entirely different things within the game there is NOTHING to base how players are comparing. Thats why you see some teams look AWESOME in pre-season, and can't do squat in the regular season. If the pre-season games meant so much, why would players like LT sit out? WHy would Shanahan sit both Henry and Bell out this last game? Shouldn't they be getting the reps in? If its SOO friggin imporant, why are teams going for two-point conversions so there is no overtime? Why not keep the starters in the entire game?? Why not play the starters more in pre-season game two? Why not play them at all in pre-season game four??? Because they get their REAL and MAIN practice on the practice field. Pre-season games mean and do squat. You just don't get enough true practice in the pre-season game to do anything.

    How do you get chemistry between the WRs and QBs? You think THAT is going to happen with those 10 whopping passes they do in the preseason games? Ten passes in a meaningless game is NOT going to build you chemistry. That is developed in PRACTICE time.. with rep after rep after rep. Not the meaningless few throw they do during a pre-season game.

    The truth is what it is. The NFL wants pre-season games because it promotes the NFL..and the upcoming year. It keeps the people TALKING about the NFL, which is what the sport needs and Wants. It gives the NFL a chance to make MORE money from the players, and not have to pay them, yet still get money from the TV advertisements. It gives the owners a chance to sell tickets to a couple more games, and not pay the players for those games. The Pre-season games are for promotion only, but they put the "need to build chemistry" on it to give it SOME value. Do you guys think the NFL wants you to see that the games are just basically for promotion and money? No. They want you to think the teams need this time to 'work' on things... when in reality the coaches themselves wish they didn't have to play these injury-prone pre-season games.

    Believe what you want. Think and feel that there is value to these games for the team if you wish. But I just don't. I don't give the pre-season games value at all, because they have never.. NEVER.. been linked to how they effect the regular season one bit (other than the season ending injuries that occur in them). I know for a fact, that the team we see on opening day in the regular season, would be the SAME team and play the same way.. if we had pre-season games or not. So worry.. concern.... get upset and put more value on the pre-season if you wish. To me... its just meaningless, nothing, football on tv...but good to see the orange and blue out there.
    ravage, reviewing practice tape? Does practice tape supercede preseason games? LOL ok fine, since I got an infraction from my last post, I wont go into it further.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    You got to be kidding me

    How are we ever gonna decide who to keep on the 53-man roster....
    How are we gonna decide if Bates scheme is gonna work with the personnel we have...
    How are we gonna get DJ ready to be a MLB in this league
    How are we gonna build chemistry between QB's and WR's

    and so on and so on...

    if preseason play means nothing

    tned is right and you guys are just way wrong.
    How are we going to decide on who makes the 53 man roster? Seriously? By practices. By watching the day-to-day training and grinds. By seeing on the practice field and watching the practice tape. By seeing how they scrimmage against not only us, but against the other teams we scrimmage against during the week.

    How are we going to decide if Bates system is going to work with the personel we have?? You think PRE-Season tells them this? Seriously? Because in the 3 games that the starting guys play, they get one SERIES in game one, MAYBE one quarter in game 2,and MAYBE a half in game three. Do you REALLY HONESTLY believe that ANY decisions made by WELL KNOWN veteran coaches in this league are making Major decisions, personel, and schemes based on pre-season games??? Come on... get serious. I PROMISE you.. PROMISE you, that the coaches could (and would if they were allowed) make the EXACT same personel decisions with just regular practices and with the workouts they have with other teams. There is NOT ANY kind of REAL competition on the field in pre-season games to make a decision that would effect the team that they didn't already know from from practice time and training camp time. Vets don't want to be on the field during pre-season.. those are games that can only injure them, and keep them out of the regular season. Pre-season just means potential for injury and a lost season and pay.

    There are college programs ALLLL over the nation that run complicated offense and defensive schemes that not only don't get the full year workout that the pros do, but do NOT have pre-season games, and they go out and play their first game each and every year. I know you are going to say "but they aren't NFL complicated or as fast as the NFL".. but those college teams also don't have the majority of the roster filled with experienced vets like NFL teams have. I would bet my year's paycheck, that the NFL coaches could make the SAME talent evaluations, scheme evaluations, and personnel evaluations... then START the season and play at the VERY SAME quality of play that we will see on opening day with OUT pre-season games.

    When you have vets that are basically playing not to get hurt. When the game intensity just doesn't matter. When you have two different coaches not game planning, running both vanilla offenses and defenses, and both looking for entirely different things within the game there is NOTHING to base how players are comparing. Thats why you see some teams look AWESOME in pre-season, and can't do squat in the regular season. If the pre-season games meant so much, why would players like LT sit out? WHy would Shanahan sit both Henry and Bell out this last game? Shouldn't they be getting the reps in? If its SOO friggin imporant, why are teams going for two-point conversions so there is no overtime? Why not keep the starters in the entire game?? Why not play the starters more in pre-season game two? Why not play them at all in pre-season game four??? Because they get their REAL and MAIN practice on the practice field. Pre-season games mean and do squat. You just don't get enough true practice in the pre-season game to do anything.

    How do you get chemistry between the WRs and QBs? You think THAT is going to happen with those 10 whopping passes they do in the preseason games? Ten passes in a meaningless game is NOT going to build you chemistry. That is developed in PRACTICE time.. with rep after rep after rep. Not the meaningless few throw they do during a pre-season game.

    The truth is what it is. The NFL wants pre-season games because it promotes the NFL..and the upcoming year. It keeps the people TALKING about the NFL, which is what the sport needs and Wants. It gives the NFL a chance to make MORE money from the players, and not have to pay them, yet still get money from the TV advertisements. It gives the owners a chance to sell tickets to a couple more games, and not pay the players for those games. The Pre-season games are for promotion only, but they put the "need to build chemistry" on it to give it SOME value. Do you guys think the NFL wants you to see that the games are just basically for promotion and money? No. They want you to think the teams need this time to 'work' on things... when in reality the coaches themselves wish they didn't have to play these injury-prone pre-season games.

    Believe what you want. Think and feel that there is value to these games for the team if you wish. But I just don't. I don't give the pre-season games value at all, because they have never.. NEVER.. been linked to how they effect the regular season one bit (other than the season ending injuries that occur in them). I know for a fact, that the team we see on opening day in the regular season, would be the SAME team and play the same way.. if we had pre-season games or not. So worry.. concern.... get upset and put more value on the pre-season if you wish. To me... its just meaningless, nothing, football on tv...but good to see the orange and blue out there.

    Leave a comment:


  • 2 Minute Warning
    replied
    I could live without pre-season, just cut to the chase and get on with it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    why do we practice? why do you watch?
    What?? what does this mean??

    Leave a comment:


  • HighPlainsBronc
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    You got to be kidding me

    How are we ever gonna decide who to keep on the 53-man roster....
    How are we gonna decide if Bates scheme is gonna work with the personnel we have...
    How are we gonna get DJ ready to be a MLB in this league
    How are we gonna build chemistry between QB's and WR's

    and so on and so on...

    if preseason play means nothing

    tned is right and you guys are just way wrong.
    Look at it like this. Preseason is nothing more than Training Camp - Part 2. It is a time for players to PRACTICE and a time for coaches to evaluate players in a game environment. Wither they win or lose these games means absolutly nothing.

    They are still fun to watch and as fans we still want our team to win, but if they don't, Oh Well!

    Leave a comment:


  • Smith49
    replied
    Originally posted by Return of Lava View Post
    You got to be kidding me

    How are we ever gonna decide who to keep on the 53-man roster....
    How are we gonna decide if Bates scheme is gonna work with the personnel we have...
    How are we gonna get DJ ready to be a MLB in this league
    How are we gonna build chemistry between QB's and WR's

    and so on and so on...

    if preseason play means nothing

    tned is right and you guys are just way wrong.


    well, im not going to say who is right or who is wrong because quite frankly who cares? its the PRE-SEASON. its soooooo meaningless its not funny. does anyone know for sure what the broncos pre-season record was in 97' or 98'. i don't know for sure, but i think they were mediocre at best, although i could be wrong about that either way. which is my point, i don't ever remember anybody being so worried about pre-season perfomance. IMO, its just ckicken fodder. i only watch to see if anyone new stands out. like selvin young did against the browns. wow, that guy looked great, but again its only pre-season so even though he looked awesome its not THAT big of a deal.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    Not true. Because how do you determine that play? By what you see? Because the Raider fans were saying that they were BACk due to the PLAY on the field they saw during pre-season. People were saying the Colts were on the decline, because of the poor PLAY they saw during their preseason losses last year. So the "play" in preseason means as much as the wins-losses, squat.

    The only PLAY that matters is what happens during the reg season. If we played well during the pre-season, then got whipped in the regular season, would that GOOD play in the pre-season matter??? No. So the play, again, in the pre-season games means nothing.
    You got to be kidding me

    How are we ever gonna decide who to keep on the 53-man roster....
    How are we gonna decide if Bates scheme is gonna work with the personnel we have...
    How are we gonna get DJ ready to be a MLB in this league
    How are we gonna build chemistry between QB's and WR's

    and so on and so on...

    if preseason play means nothing

    tned is right and you guys are just way wrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by Ravage!!! View Post
    I needed to quote this, because it said everything I wanted to say. Especially the point you made on what Bailey said. I was going to use Sam Adams as an example, but people seem to listen to Champ more.

    The Vets aren't getting paid for these games. THey are just opportunities to get injured and ruin the regular season, as well as take away your pay-check. They have a whole new intensity and level of play during the regular season, that its just not something you can determine by the MEANINGLESS pre-season games. They are SOOOo meaningless.

    Great post Cugal
    why do we practice? why do you watch?

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncsSB#3
    replied
    The preseason is usually used to test rookies and 3rd stringers or worse that may or may not even be on the team when the season starts. For the vets its used to get them into a somewhat real-game environment to get them warmed up for the regular season. We use very simple play calling, because a win or loss means absolutely nothing in the preseason, since 2 or 3 different sets of personnel will be playing and the schemes are very predictable.

    I don't care if we go 4-0 or 0-4 in the preseason as long as we don't get key players injured.

    Leave a comment:


  • Return of Lava
    replied
    Originally posted by silkamilkamonic View Post
    And how does Bates gameplan with a defense when

    a)the entire defense isn't even put into place as far as scheme
    b)he doesn't know what's going to be successful, and what isn't
    c)he doesn't even know who's going to be the starting block

    If that's the point of your thread, it's a worthless argument then.
    a,b, and c all should be decided in preseason...lol
    Last edited by Return of Lava; 08-27-2007, 01:28 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mojo0730
    replied
    And on top of everything I mentioned, there's also the fact that the starting unit knows that they have nothing to play for, and there isn't a sense of urgency that you would normally have as a player in a regular season or playoff game.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X