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Will The Broncos DL be Worse Than Last Year?

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  • Will The Broncos DL be Worse Than Last Year?

    With the departure of Warren and Kennedy and the cuts to make the 53 man roster, it's time to size up the DL going into the season. Frankly, at this point it doesn't look very good. Downright frightening would be a better term for it! Last year the DL was pretty much horrible, but there was at least an excuse. The team lost 3 starters from 2005 during the off-season: Courtney Brown, Trevor Pryce and Gerrard Warren all were lost to either FA or injury for all (Pryce, Brown) or most (Warren) of the season.

    This year after massive efforts to re-tool the DL we have the following result:

    TACKLES

    1. I'm shocked that Jimmy Kennedy was cut! No, wait a minute, I'm shocked that he was signed in the first place, then cut, wasting a 6th round pick.

    I never understood this trade to begin with but I assumed Bates knew something that made it make sense. Now we learn that he didn't!

    Jimmy Kennedy was run out of St. Louis because he couldn't/wouldn't clog. He just wanted to rush the passer and wasn't strong in run-support. He came here to a defense where he was asked to clog. He didn't look good trying to do that during the pre-season and now he's gone.

    Why was any of this unpredictable?

    Now the Broncos have possibly the worst starting DTs (besides Adams) in football:

    1. Sam Adams. Sam hasn't looked good during the pre-season, but hopefully that will change during the regular season. Even if he's great, he can only play at most about 15 snaps a game, if they want him to make it through the season that is. That leaves a LOT of time where his backup will be playing in his place. So, we should really call the #2 guy behind Adams a co-starter.

    2. 1. Amon Gordon. Amon Gordon would have a tough time making virtually any other roster in the NFL. He's a career backup at best, a practice squad player who's here today and gone tomorrow on most teams. Here, the utter poverty of talent at DT has him starting. That's not a good sign.

    He gets pushed around like the 98 lbs. weakling in the Charles Adams commercials.



    Unless that changes in a hurry the Broncos defense will be at a huge disadvantage starting the season, since he's the guy who's supposed to stand up blockers and hold his ground in the middle. He has no pass-rush ability at all of course and can't collapse the pocket.

    3. Marcus Thomas will play at least 1/2 the snaps behind Gordon. Thomas has tons of potential but is probably about 2 years from being ready to start and be a serious factor in the NFL. He's going to be thrown in there his rookie year and hope for the best. Thomas looked very rusty during the pre-season and clearly needs some work, considering he missed virtually his entire senior season in college. Best hope is that he develops fast and becomes a real contributor later in the year. For now he's more a liability than an asset.

    3. Antwon Burton. I just assumed that Antwon Burton would be cut, because he's not even good enough to be a backup or play special teams. He's the sort of player who would never make the roster on any team with decent DL. He's worse than Mike Myers who was last year's scrub of the month.

    Do you realize that if Adams gets hurt/tired/can't play, which is almost certain at some point in the season, given his age and history of knee injuries, Burton is the STARTER? Right now he's listed on the depth chart at #3 behind Adams and Kennedy. Now with Kennedy gone he presumably moves up to the primary backup.

    I can't believe that he's not only going to make the team, but actually play 1/2 the time!



    Now try and wrap your mind around this one!

    "Starting at DT for your Denver Broncos: LT Antwon Burton, RT Amon Gordon." Save the retching for later.

    4. Alvin McKinley. Alvin McKinley is basically the backup for Amon Gordon if Thomas isn't ready to go. He's too small at 6'3" 294 to clog in Adam's place, so he plays the RT position. He's really a backup, similar to Mike Myers. If he has to start you're probably in trouble. That said, I'd actually be happier seeing him starting instead of Gordon. At least with McKinley you know what you're getting (not a whole lot, but he's a veteran and is consistent).

    If Thomas is deemed ready to backup Gordon, McKinley will stay at #3 in the rotation and won't play a lot.

    I'll save the analysis of the ends for Part II. This is enough to start with!
    56
    No Way! Bates will wave his magic wand and the srubs will turn into supermen!
    33.93%
    19
    About the same. After all it would be hard to be worse than last year!
    14.29%
    8
    Yes! Antwon Burton and Amon Gordon getting starting time is BAD! Worse than last year!
    14.29%
    8
    I don't know! I'm just holding my breath and praying at this point!
    37.50%
    21
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  • #2
    Careful Cugal..poeple are gonna think you hate Denver's D-Line

    I would be lying if I told you I wasn't worried about the DT's..but i'm gonna wait a few weeks into the season before I call them garbage

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    • #3
      yeah

      well


      we still have champ bailey and thats all that matters.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by DrewB View Post
        Careful Cugal..poeple are gonna think you hate Denver's D-Line

        I would be lying if I told you I wasn't worried about the DT's..but i'm gonna wait a few weeks into the season before I call them garbage
        I don't hate any Denver player! I'm not enthusiastic about seeing basically a starting rotation at DT of Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton (considering how few snaps Adams will be taking per game and how likely he is to miss significant time with injury), but I'm willing to wait until after the Bills game to conclude they're garbage! I hope I'm wrong, but this isn't looking good to start with. That's all.

        I mean, am I wrong, or did you see Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton getting pushed around like a 98 pound Frenchman during the pre-season?
        sigpic

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        • #5
          This is a team game,its gonna take more than just the D-line to win 16 games IMO.We can win with those guys on the line

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Cugel View Post
            I mean, am I wrong, or did you see Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton getting pushed around like a 98 pound Frenchman during the pre-season?
            HEH,I saw the whole defense get pushed around...so the glass half full in me PRAYS that it was just a pre-season thing...But i am concerned also

            Comment


            • #7
              Cugel, I would be lying if I said I wasn't VERY concerned. Having said that, I am optimistic about our draftees. My thought is that we're backed up against a wall, and these kids need to accelerate their efforts to be quality NFL players, and they know it. That was the message sent with the cuts, and the other message is that the staff has faith in their potential. I don't know if anyone has a whole lot of faith in where we are right now, but I am 'holding my breath and praying' that the young blood will embrace their role in the organization and rise to what's expected.

              We all know that doesn't always happen. If that's the case, then I'm afraid our run defense will be poor for at least the beginning of the season. I would hope that after that, our revamped LB corps can make up for the inadequacies of our DTs. What a crappy place to be.

              Our run defense was #2 or #3 in 2005...a big reason why we had a solid D overall. I have so much skepticism heading into the season, it hurts to think about it. I am very, very concerned about our run defense, and I can't hide it.

              But I'm still optimistic that our rookies will make major contributions because I think they are legit and I think they realize that if we are going to be a championship organization, it's going to be them that determines how far we go.

              Good post.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by BroncoSexyDaddy View Post
                This is a team game,its gonna take more than just the D-line to win 16 games IMO.We can win with those guys on the line
                That ISN'T THE POINT! This thread isn't about "Will the team be good or bad!" It's about the DL. Don't hijack the thread into a discussion about can other areas of the team compensate enough for the Broncos to win!

                If Cutler throws 4 or 5 TDs a game this team might get to the SB whatever the DL does but that's a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT FOR ANOTHER THREAD! :hammer:
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                  I don't hate any Denver player! I'm not enthusiastic about seeing basically a starting rotation at DT of Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton (considering how few snaps Adams will be taking per game and how likely he is to miss significant time with injury), but I'm willing to wait until after the Bills game to conclude they're garbage! I hope I'm wrong, but this isn't looking good to start with. That's all.

                  I mean, am I wrong, or did you see Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton getting pushed around like a 98 pound Frenchman during the pre-season?
                  Well, to be honest after watching all the pre season games except for the Arizona game. I was impressed with Gordon. Fact is, The one game his name kept coming up over and over. He was in on almost every tackle and he got to the QB a couple times. Sure he was playing against backup's but when one backup is clearly beating another backup that always means he is better then a backup. (At least one)

                  As for Burton, I can't say I know anything about him. That normaly isn't a good thing. But I have to believe he is at least better then those behind him. Otherwise why would Shanahan/Bates have him there?

                  Really! There are many DT's that have just been cut. We could get a number of them. If he is really that bad why wouldn't we have cut him?

                  We don't get to see everything, so we don't know the reasons behind all the moves but Shanahan & Co are proven winners. That is their #1 goal.

                  If shanahan showed up on my job site and was telling me how to build a house I would tell him to get lost! That being said, I will concede he knows more then me when it comes to building a winning football team.

                  Until He does something to show me he has another agenda besides the Broncos winning, I will trust him.

                  -Edit- BTW, I Selected we would be better then last year. Does that mean we will be among the best in the league? Probably not, but our D-line was pretty sad last year.

                  Also, IMO our Offence will be much better this year. Our D will look better when playing with the lead.

                  How many more sacks will we get when the other team was to throw 5 -10 more times a game? We will have less running yards against us with 5 - 10 less attempts. So if for nothing else our D-line will be better because of circumstance
                  Last edited by fcspikeit; 09-02-2007, 11:21 PM.
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                  • #10
                    It's a good post, cugal...

                    ...and I agree with most of it.

                    Except that Gordon (Who, like you said, has no business starting) showed me something by fighting of blocks to get a couple sacks in the Cleveland game, and McKinley (Who I don't care for) singlehandedly stuffed the Cards run up the middle til Kennedy and Moss could slip their blocks and finish Shipp (?) off during their opening drive.

                    .........................Who am I kidding? The DT situation is pathetic.

                    I'm just gonna take the wait and see approach, but it doesn't look good....

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cugel View Post
                      That ISN'T THE POINT! This thread isn't about "Will the team be good or bad!" It's about the DL. Don't hijack the thread into a discussion about can other areas of the team compensate enough for the Broncos to win!

                      If Cutler throws 4 or 5 TDs a game this team might get to the SB whatever the DL does but that's a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT FOR ANOTHER THREAD! :hammer:
                      For being such a scrub, Mike Myers is proving otherwise in their preseason games, at least....

                      I'd say it's still too early to start yelling "the sky is falling".....
                      "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                      tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                      men."

                      -- Samuel Adams

                      sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by fcspikeit View Post
                        Well, to be honest after watching all the pre season games except for the Arizona game. I was impressed with Gordon. Fact is, The one game his name kept coming up over and over. He was in on almost every tackle and he got to the QB a couple times. Sure he was playing against backup's but when one backup is clearly beating another backup that always means he is better then a backup. (At least one)

                        As for Burton, I can't say I know anything about him. That normaly isn't a good thing. But I have to believe he is at least better then those behind him. Otherwise why would Shanahan/Bates have him there?

                        Really! There are many DT's that have just been cut. We could get a number of them. If he is really that bad why wouldn't we have cut him?

                        We don't get to see everything, so we don't know the reasons behind all the moves but Shanahan & Co are proven winners. That is their #1 goal.

                        If shanahan showed up on my job site and was telling me how to build a house I would tell him to get lost! That being said, I will concede he knows more then me when it comes to building a winning football team.

                        Until He does something to show me he has another agenda besides the Broncos winning, I will trust him.

                        -Edit- BTW, I Selected we would be better then last year. Does that mean we will be among the best in the league? Probably not, but our D-line was pretty sad last year.

                        Also, IMO our Offence will be much better this year. Our D will look better when playing with the lead.

                        How many more sacks will we get when the other team was to throw 5 -10 more times a game? We will have less running yards against us with 5 - 10 less attempts. So if for nothing else our D-line will be better because of circumstance
                        Actually, maybe watch those pre-season games again. Focus on what Gordon is doing. He is getting pushed back consistently on every play. You say his name is always being called, and I assune that your talking about the Cleveland game where he came away with 2 sacks. Take a look at those sacks though. Both were clean-up sacks. He was the only one on the line who got ZERO penetration. Both sacks came when the QB scrammbled back to the line of scrimmage. They werent him making any sort of great play.

                        Ive one pass play in particular that he got pushed back 2 yards Dallas's LG. Thats ridiculous. How do you get pushed backwards in a pass rush???

                        Now, Im not sure what options are out there, and frankly it doesnt matter because were not getting anyone else that will really make a difference at DT. But for anyone who is comfortable in the least bit with Gordon starting, take another look.


                        My 2007 Adopt a Broncos are Brandon Marshall and Erica Weston

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rcsodak View Post
                          For being such a scrub, Mike Myers is proving otherwise in their preseason games, at least....

                          I'd say it's still too early to start yelling "the sky is falling".....
                          Huh?

                          What on earth are you talking about? Is there something I missed? Mike Myers is starting for the Bungles and has 3 tackles and no sacks over 3 meaningless pre-season games. He's been a career backup. The kind of guy that is good enough to make most teams and play in the rotation, but if he's your starter you're basically in trouble -- just like the Bungles are at DT.

                          He was pretty mediocre at best for the Broncos. He was forced into the lineup because the team had a notorious deficiency at DT (and still does) and they cut him unceremoneously. He wanted to re-sign with Denver. Bates didn't want anything to do with him, wouldn't give him the time of day!

                          That ought to tell you something. What it tells me is that they didn't even consider Myers better than Amon Gordon or Antwon Burton. They might be wrong about that, but not by much.
                          sigpic

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BRONCOS_OWN_U16 View Post
                            yeah

                            well


                            we still have champ bailey and thats all that matters.
                            Long live the Champ.

                            On our D-line... I have enough faith in our rookies and Jim Bates to say that we may be surprised to find ourselves with a good defensive line, especially in those 3rd down and long situations. I can see it now, (Insert QB) drops back to pass on 3rd and 9... Makes his read not one, two but three of his guys are covered. Meanwhile Elvis and Jarvis are flying down field to help him to the floor.

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                            • #15
                              I had to vote "I don't know" on this one. If we got Rice, I'd think we'd have to be better (at least against the pass). If we don't, it really depends how quickly our guys pick up the system and buy into it. Jim bates system doesn't require the DTs to be super "talented" just big enough to hold at the point of attack and take up space. He didn't have superstars on his other teams in either Miami or Green Bay, just big bodies inside which allowed smaller, faster DEs like Taylor and KGB to just rush the QB freely.

                              The system is proven to work and with the exception of the DTs (who are a question mark mostly because of the unknown) and the mental side for the LBs (they are physically talented enough) I think we're set to run it. I guess we'll see on Sunday vs the Bills how it works out in a real game with real game planning.

                              I will say however, that I would feel a whole lot better if we hadn't cut Kennedy and if we do sign Rice...

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