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Will The Broncos DL be Worse Than Last Year?

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  • antipas
    replied
    Originally posted by Hawgdriver View Post
    Cugel, I would be lying if I said I wasn't VERY concerned. Having said that, I am optimistic about our draftees. My thought is that we're backed up against a wall, and these kids need to accelerate their efforts to be quality NFL players, and they know it. That was the message sent with the cuts, and the other message is that the staff has faith in their potential. I don't know if anyone has a whole lot of faith in where we are right now, but I am 'holding my breath and praying' that the young blood will embrace their role in the organization and rise to what's expected.

    We all know that doesn't always happen. If that's the case, then I'm afraid our run defense will be poor for at least the beginning of the season. I would hope that after that, our revamped LB corps can make up for the inadequacies of our DTs. What a crappy place to be.

    Our run defense was #2 or #3 in 2005...a big reason why we had a solid D overall. I have so much skepticism heading into the season, it hurts to think about it. I am very, very concerned about our run defense, and I can't hide it.

    But I'm still optimistic that our rookies will make major contributions because I think they are legit and I think they realize that if we are going to be a championship organization, it's going to be them that determines how far we go.

    Good post.
    This is an excellent post. You are right; the rookies are going to have to step up big time. And if they do, other teams better watch out! And how will our D look if we sign Simeon Rice! WOW!!!!
    Last edited by antipas; 09-03-2007, 03:10 PM. Reason: to add something relivant

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  • Hallam Bronco
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel View Post
    He has no pass-rush ability at all of course and can't collapse the pocket.
    I think it's a bit harsh to criticize Gordon for having no pass-rush when you earlier acknowledged that Bates' scheme doesn't want penetrating DTs, he just wants them to clog.

    I'm saying that he's a good DT, maybe not even average, but from what I have seen, then I don't think he is as bad as you make out.

    Overall, I think there will be some improvement above last year, I mean, its hard to be worse, but it will only really start to show as the season progresses and our younger players gain that much needed experience.

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  • Dream
    replied
    I think we'll see marginal improvement.

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  • Ravage!!!
    replied
    I don't know. I voted that it would basically be the same, but would be hard to be worse than last year. Right now, I don't have very much confidence in them. Its going to be another season of relying on everyone else to try and make up for our lack of DL.

    I have some serious hope and feel confident about the rookies we drafted. They have shown promise, and so far everything stated about them has been good. So there is really no reason to believe that they can't make it. But they still need time, just as anyone does in this league.

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  • HORSEPOWER 56
    replied
    I had to vote "I don't know" on this one. If we got Rice, I'd think we'd have to be better (at least against the pass). If we don't, it really depends how quickly our guys pick up the system and buy into it. Jim bates system doesn't require the DTs to be super "talented" just big enough to hold at the point of attack and take up space. He didn't have superstars on his other teams in either Miami or Green Bay, just big bodies inside which allowed smaller, faster DEs like Taylor and KGB to just rush the QB freely.

    The system is proven to work and with the exception of the DTs (who are a question mark mostly because of the unknown) and the mental side for the LBs (they are physically talented enough) I think we're set to run it. I guess we'll see on Sunday vs the Bills how it works out in a real game with real game planning.

    I will say however, that I would feel a whole lot better if we hadn't cut Kennedy and if we do sign Rice...

    Leave a comment:


  • Zealander
    replied
    Originally posted by BRONCOS_OWN_U16 View Post
    yeah

    well


    we still have champ bailey and thats all that matters.
    Long live the Champ.

    On our D-line... I have enough faith in our rookies and Jim Bates to say that we may be surprised to find ourselves with a good defensive line, especially in those 3rd down and long situations. I can see it now, (Insert QB) drops back to pass on 3rd and 9... Makes his read not one, two but three of his guys are covered. Meanwhile Elvis and Jarvis are flying down field to help him to the floor.

    Leave a comment:


  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by rcsodak View Post
    For being such a scrub, Mike Myers is proving otherwise in their preseason games, at least....

    I'd say it's still too early to start yelling "the sky is falling".....
    Huh?

    What on earth are you talking about? Is there something I missed? Mike Myers is starting for the Bungles and has 3 tackles and no sacks over 3 meaningless pre-season games. He's been a career backup. The kind of guy that is good enough to make most teams and play in the rotation, but if he's your starter you're basically in trouble -- just like the Bungles are at DT.

    He was pretty mediocre at best for the Broncos. He was forced into the lineup because the team had a notorious deficiency at DT (and still does) and they cut him unceremoneously. He wanted to re-sign with Denver. Bates didn't want anything to do with him, wouldn't give him the time of day!

    That ought to tell you something. What it tells me is that they didn't even consider Myers better than Amon Gordon or Antwon Burton. They might be wrong about that, but not by much.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheFuture6
    replied
    Originally posted by fcspikeit View Post
    Well, to be honest after watching all the pre season games except for the Arizona game. I was impressed with Gordon. Fact is, The one game his name kept coming up over and over. He was in on almost every tackle and he got to the QB a couple times. Sure he was playing against backup's but when one backup is clearly beating another backup that always means he is better then a backup. (At least one)

    As for Burton, I can't say I know anything about him. That normaly isn't a good thing. But I have to believe he is at least better then those behind him. Otherwise why would Shanahan/Bates have him there?

    Really! There are many DT's that have just been cut. We could get a number of them. If he is really that bad why wouldn't we have cut him?

    We don't get to see everything, so we don't know the reasons behind all the moves but Shanahan & Co are proven winners. That is their #1 goal.

    If shanahan showed up on my job site and was telling me how to build a house I would tell him to get lost! That being said, I will concede he knows more then me when it comes to building a winning football team.

    Until He does something to show me he has another agenda besides the Broncos winning, I will trust him.

    -Edit- BTW, I Selected we would be better then last year. Does that mean we will be among the best in the league? Probably not, but our D-line was pretty sad last year.

    Also, IMO our Offence will be much better this year. Our D will look better when playing with the lead.

    How many more sacks will we get when the other team was to throw 5 -10 more times a game? We will have less running yards against us with 5 - 10 less attempts. So if for nothing else our D-line will be better because of circumstance
    Actually, maybe watch those pre-season games again. Focus on what Gordon is doing. He is getting pushed back consistently on every play. You say his name is always being called, and I assune that your talking about the Cleveland game where he came away with 2 sacks. Take a look at those sacks though. Both were clean-up sacks. He was the only one on the line who got ZERO penetration. Both sacks came when the QB scrammbled back to the line of scrimmage. They werent him making any sort of great play.

    Ive one pass play in particular that he got pushed back 2 yards Dallas's LG. Thats ridiculous. How do you get pushed backwards in a pass rush???

    Now, Im not sure what options are out there, and frankly it doesnt matter because were not getting anyone else that will really make a difference at DT. But for anyone who is comfortable in the least bit with Gordon starting, take another look.

    Leave a comment:


  • rcsodak
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel View Post
    That ISN'T THE POINT! This thread isn't about "Will the team be good or bad!" It's about the DL. Don't hijack the thread into a discussion about can other areas of the team compensate enough for the Broncos to win!

    If Cutler throws 4 or 5 TDs a game this team might get to the SB whatever the DL does but that's a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT FOR ANOTHER THREAD! :hammer:
    For being such a scrub, Mike Myers is proving otherwise in their preseason games, at least....

    I'd say it's still too early to start yelling "the sky is falling".....

    Leave a comment:


  • stnzed
    replied
    It's a good post, cugal...

    ...and I agree with most of it.

    Except that Gordon (Who, like you said, has no business starting) showed me something by fighting of blocks to get a couple sacks in the Cleveland game, and McKinley (Who I don't care for) singlehandedly stuffed the Cards run up the middle til Kennedy and Moss could slip their blocks and finish Shipp (?) off during their opening drive.

    .........................Who am I kidding? The DT situation is pathetic.

    I'm just gonna take the wait and see approach, but it doesn't look good....

    Leave a comment:


  • fcspikeit
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel View Post
    I don't hate any Denver player! I'm not enthusiastic about seeing basically a starting rotation at DT of Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton (considering how few snaps Adams will be taking per game and how likely he is to miss significant time with injury), but I'm willing to wait until after the Bills game to conclude they're garbage! I hope I'm wrong, but this isn't looking good to start with. That's all.

    I mean, am I wrong, or did you see Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton getting pushed around like a 98 pound Frenchman during the pre-season?
    Well, to be honest after watching all the pre season games except for the Arizona game. I was impressed with Gordon. Fact is, The one game his name kept coming up over and over. He was in on almost every tackle and he got to the QB a couple times. Sure he was playing against backup's but when one backup is clearly beating another backup that always means he is better then a backup. (At least one)

    As for Burton, I can't say I know anything about him. That normaly isn't a good thing. But I have to believe he is at least better then those behind him. Otherwise why would Shanahan/Bates have him there?

    Really! There are many DT's that have just been cut. We could get a number of them. If he is really that bad why wouldn't we have cut him?

    We don't get to see everything, so we don't know the reasons behind all the moves but Shanahan & Co are proven winners. That is their #1 goal.

    If shanahan showed up on my job site and was telling me how to build a house I would tell him to get lost! That being said, I will concede he knows more then me when it comes to building a winning football team.

    Until He does something to show me he has another agenda besides the Broncos winning, I will trust him.

    -Edit- BTW, I Selected we would be better then last year. Does that mean we will be among the best in the league? Probably not, but our D-line was pretty sad last year.

    Also, IMO our Offence will be much better this year. Our D will look better when playing with the lead.

    How many more sacks will we get when the other team was to throw 5 -10 more times a game? We will have less running yards against us with 5 - 10 less attempts. So if for nothing else our D-line will be better because of circumstance
    Last edited by fcspikeit; 09-02-2007, 11:21 PM.

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by BroncoSexyDaddy View Post
    This is a team game,its gonna take more than just the D-line to win 16 games IMO.We can win with those guys on the line
    That ISN'T THE POINT! This thread isn't about "Will the team be good or bad!" It's about the DL. Don't hijack the thread into a discussion about can other areas of the team compensate enough for the Broncos to win!

    If Cutler throws 4 or 5 TDs a game this team might get to the SB whatever the DL does but that's a TOTALLY DIFFERENT SUBJECT FOR ANOTHER THREAD! :hammer:

    Leave a comment:


  • Hawgdriver
    replied
    Cugel, I would be lying if I said I wasn't VERY concerned. Having said that, I am optimistic about our draftees. My thought is that we're backed up against a wall, and these kids need to accelerate their efforts to be quality NFL players, and they know it. That was the message sent with the cuts, and the other message is that the staff has faith in their potential. I don't know if anyone has a whole lot of faith in where we are right now, but I am 'holding my breath and praying' that the young blood will embrace their role in the organization and rise to what's expected.

    We all know that doesn't always happen. If that's the case, then I'm afraid our run defense will be poor for at least the beginning of the season. I would hope that after that, our revamped LB corps can make up for the inadequacies of our DTs. What a crappy place to be.

    Our run defense was #2 or #3 in 2005...a big reason why we had a solid D overall. I have so much skepticism heading into the season, it hurts to think about it. I am very, very concerned about our run defense, and I can't hide it.

    But I'm still optimistic that our rookies will make major contributions because I think they are legit and I think they realize that if we are going to be a championship organization, it's going to be them that determines how far we go.

    Good post.

    Leave a comment:


  • DrewB
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel View Post
    I mean, am I wrong, or did you see Amon Gordon and Antwon Burton getting pushed around like a 98 pound Frenchman during the pre-season?
    HEH,I saw the whole defense get pushed around...so the glass half full in me PRAYS that it was just a pre-season thing...But i am concerned also

    Leave a comment:


  • BroncoSexyDaddy
    replied
    This is a team game,its gonna take more than just the D-line to win 16 games IMO.We can win with those guys on the line

    Leave a comment:

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