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DP: Late-season injuries prove that Tim Tebow can't make a living as a run-first qb

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  • #16
    No, he cannot. His running ability is certainly a plus, but it cannot be his only weapon. He must improve his footwork, he must improve his delivery, he must improve his ability to read the defense and go through progressions (i.e: stop staring down his intended receiver), and he absolutely has to improve his ability to complete 5-10 yard touch passes. Defenses never had to worry about short routes because he was so poor in completing those types of passes. It was almost always run or deep ball, and that's no way to keep defenses honest. Especially if he tips off where his passes are going and takes way too long to deliver the ball.

    Yes, I know there were some drops, and those issues also need to be addressed with intensity this off season. But there were many (far too many) atrocious throws to open receivers 5-10 yards down the field. If he can improve on those throws, roll-outs become a whole new weapon because now the defense has to actually be worried about him throwing to the underneath guy and won't be able to just rush the line. Improving his throwing skills will make him a more well-rounded threat, and that will enhance his running ability, not hurt it.

    As to why a QB shouldn't be expected to carry an RB load of carries...there are RBs on the team for certain downs and situations. a 1st and 2nd down edge runner isn't expected to pound the ball on 3rd and short. A big, short yardage back isn't expected to carry 25 times a game. The QB is in on every offensive play. He's expected to be able to make things happen on every single offensive down. If he's taking a major beating because he runs too often and the defense knows what's coming, it's only a matter of time before he breaks down and his ability to make anything happen is diminished greatly. It's not smart coaching or playing to continually put your primary play-maker at that kind of risk.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
      He needs to get rid of the ball quicker and stop taking unnecessary hits in the pocket. There are QBs that are far less athletic but don't get hit as much becuase they can get rid of the ball. Him running the ball will lead to injuries and so will holding on to it.
      I agree with you accept what happens when the protection fails and gets blindsided and ends up with a concussion?

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      • #18
        The injury in the last game happened in the pocket as he was sandwiched many times after their D line ate our O line for lunch.

        His running physical style was a huge advantage for us this year. The bigger hurts were when he was in the pocket and unable to protect himself.

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        • #19
          The running thing and the passing thing are unrelated to the injuries thing. QBs in the NFL get injured period and most of them are injured in the pocket or trying to escape a collapsing pocket. Maybe look at a list of the QBs that got injured this year and how - then I might put some relevance on this whole issue of Tebow running being more prone to injury.

          All it proves - if a QB gets injured - is that QBs get injured in the NFL. Tebows major injury was in the last game in the pocket. How does this prove he can't run or he will not survive. All QBs get injured and it is rarely due to running. Bad comparison IMHO.

          Yes he needs to have a much better passing game but injury isn't driving that train it is about playing better and winning games.
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          • #20
            Originally posted by gobronx6215 View Post
            I agree with you accept what happens when the protection fails and gets blindsided and ends up with a concussion?
            things like that happen. You cant have it good all the time. Not saying it's an injury proof method but it's less of a risk.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
              because RBs are replaceable, most teams have 3 or 4 on the roster. There is only 1 starting QB. Same reason why most teams don't have a starting WR/CB returning kicks.
              The returner scenario is completely different. Returner's might not see a hit coming from a guy running full speed 20 yards out. The chances of that kind of run up and ill-preparedness for a hit on a running play are much, much lower.

              Tim isn't built like Vick, Cunningham, most of the prototypical running QBs. They rely on being faster and more agile than defenders to run the ball. Tim though has a larger, thicker frame. Vick and Cunningham both played at about 215, Tebow at 236.

              We see every year QBs getting injured inside the pocket, in large part because they aren't preparing for the hit. Its coming when they're fully exposed, standing upright as they extend to try and throw the ball.

              Could the injuries have possibly come from him taking a beating during the season, possibly. It probably didnt help. But, any QB that gets whacked in the pocket has a good chance of getting injured from the right kind of blow. The key is to take fewer of those hits I think, with better pass protection and better reads to get the ball out quickly. Its in large part why you've seen Manning and Brady stay so relatively healthy, good protection and quick reads.
              sigpic

              I think Ben Tate will be the best back taken in the 2010 draft. (5/3/10)
              SportsXPicks, check out the Rants and Opinions section

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              • #22
                Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
                things like that happen. You cant have it good all the time. Not saying it's an injury proof method but it's less of a risk.
                Double standards? Hahaha!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by broncofan1982 View Post
                  The injury in the last game happened in the pocket as he was sandwiched many times after their D line ate our O line for lunch.

                  His running physical style was a huge advantage for us this year. The bigger hurts were when he was in the pocket and unable to protect himself.
                  I won't say the O-line played well, but as shawinkerpoppin said, Tebow takes far too many hits in the pocket because he takes too long to read the field and deliver the ball. The O-line can only protect so long, he needs to be better about getting the ball out quicker. If he were better at delivering the short pass, he wouldn't need as much time to wait for routes to develop or guys to find holes in the coverage...

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                  • #24
                    tebows a shifty runner and has been playing this way since he was little. hes built like a full back runs tough only when he NEEDS too. example goal line touchdowns against patriouts and converting 3rd down run against chicago. rarely does he look to truck defenders he will run out of bounds and try to juke/dive forward to avoid contact. much like a steve young runner

                    this question is very annoying and the media always talks about it. do you EVER hear the question can a fullback have a long career playing the way he does ? no thats absurd. all these ppl saying he should switch his position to tight end or H back well how would he be able to sustain a career there if hes not ' big enough ' . just because the guy has the lable quarterback doesnt mean jack squat. his fitness and toughness are through the roof , if anyone can do it its tebow
                    Last edited by AirMax; 01-28-2012, 08:42 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by draco193 View Post
                      The key is to take fewer of those hits I think, with better pass protection and better reads to get the ball out quickly. Its in large part why you've seen Manning and Brady stay so relatively healthy, good protection and quick reads.
                      The O-line isn't terrible, in many games he had a lot of good protection. The NE game was a result of the score. They could pin their ears back because they knew he had to throw. The "quick reads" part of your statement is the most important, Tebow HAS to get better at getting the ball out faster and more accurately. Until defenses fear his arm, they'll keep bringing the pressure.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by gobronx6215 View Post
                        Double standards? Hahaha!
                        I wouldnt call it a double standard. I dont min him running. I mind him taking unecesary shots. Running around and then getting hit for a loss or next to no gain is pretty uncesary. If he can get the ball out in like 3 seconds fine. Sometimes it takes a little longer. But he cant consistently do that right now. I seen it a few times but not often. He has to hit the open guy throw someone open or dump it off vs running around all over the place.

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                        • #27
                          The reality is he can't continue to run as he has each and every game and expect to have a long, sustainable career in the NFL.

                          Reports were he actually had been nursing some type of arm injury AND had his arm in a sling after practices and games for about a month leading up to the divisional round where he obviously SERIOUSLY injured it. While I understand the argument "he got hurt in the pocket" and that any quarterback can get injured NOT running the football, simple logic tells you this:

                          Quarterback = takes hits his position normally takes.

                          Running back = takes hits his position normally takes.

                          Running quarterback = takes hits quarterbacks AND running backs take.

                          As I've said before, you wouldn't ask your kicker to take hits a quarterback takes, so why would you put your quarterback in a position to take hits a running back takes?

                          I get that fans love Tebow's running abilities and it makes him an exciting player. But point-blank it's not a very sustainable way to play football in the pros.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
                            I wouldnt call it a double standard. I dont min him running. I mind him taking unecesary shots. Running around and then getting hit for a loss or next to no gain is pretty uncesary. If he can get the ball out in like 3 seconds fine. Sometimes it takes a little longer. But he cant consistently do that right now. I seen it a few times but not often. He has to hit the open guy throw someone open or dump it off vs running around all over the place.
                            I agree! You still need to have players run those underneath routes and dump offs if you can complete them or not.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                              yea, cause getting hit on his 100+ carries had nothing to do with him being hurt...........

                              how many seasons did Vick go out hurt? How about Randall cunningham?
                              It didn't. Go actually watch the play he was "injured" on. There's a difference between getting bruised in routine football plays and actually being injured.

                              Comparing Tebow to Vick or Cunningham is a non-starter. Tebow is much, much tougher than either of those guys. Eyesight proves it.
                              Last edited by kingpins9; 01-28-2012, 09:06 AM.
                              11/22/11

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                              • #30
                                Injury isn't the issue. It's wear and tear. He can't expend all his energy running, take a pounding, and still throw it with the pinpoint accuracy he needs.

                                He has to choose his spots. About 8 times a game.

                                I don't know why we keep making this as hard as we can. It seems like it keeps getting explored because it's yet one more way to explain away Tebow's winning ways without crediting his future.

                                But the basic facts, if everybody's honest (pro-Tebow and anti-Tebow) are not really disputable. Like Cam Newton, Tebow will always make it hard on defenses with his ability to run. He will always pick up first downs with his feet. He will always have a tendency to score touchdowns. But he will not be able to carry it on a designed run 10 times a game like some running back.

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