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DP: Late-season injuries prove that Tim Tebow can't make a living as a run-first qb

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  • #31
    By my rough math, Cam Newton averaged about 8 carries a game this season, for 5.6 yards a carry. Tim Tebow averaged just under 10 carries a game this season, for 5.4 yards a carry.

    Cam's probably in the right ballpark, though less might be nice. I think 8 or 10 should be the upward bounds on the high games, for an average of maybe 6.5 or so.

    I think Tebow's got to get that down a bit, especially the designed runs up the middle called from the sidelines from McCoy.

    This is key: McCoy needs to install more of an audible system that is keyed to the blocking and formation, the defense Tebow sees. Allow Tebow the ability to audible into a play where he runs it (or has that option). That way, every run by Tebow can be expended on a play he perceives as very advantageous and not likely to be hit as hard. You should get maximum "keep 'em honest" out of every Tebow run. None of his runs should be expended on plays where "Uh, this isn't going to get much, but Coach McCoy called it, so here goes." The wear and tear on the quarterback is not worth on a play where the defense is not necessarily napping.

    If you do that, it becomes a force multiplier, because every time the defense is worried if they don't honor it, he'll do it. Save them up for those situations where they don't honor it.

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    • #32
      In the end, I think there should be almost no designed runs for Tebow (when he's at full development). The most potent use of his running ability to is to call in from the sideline an empty backfield pass play, and tell him "See if it's there, or get it yourself if you can."

      If you put it in his hands, he's very instinctive for picking up first downs by either run/pass. It's actually the same skill set he uses around the goal line, but put in that same mentality for the first down sticks. It has an amazing effect on the offense if you treat every 3rd down like a goal line situation.

      They're doing some of that now, a lot of that -- but if the passing gets better, it will really all start to work together. They need to design plays with that in mind -- as in, "in order for them to stop this pass play, they'd have to give up the scramble for the first down." You sort of build things off of hard choices.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
        Tebow won't stop running. His injuries happened in the pocket. He was hit while trying to throw the ball. Tebow: 122 rushing attempts. Cam Newton: 126 rushing attempts. And no one says Newton should stop running... This "run, don't run" thing will not be an issue if the passing yards increase. Such discussion happens because the Broncos had the fewest passing attempts and a running QB that defies the conventional ways. Once Tebow starts missing games because of his running ability, he will adapt like every mobile QB that gets older. But since he got hurt while playing like a pocket passer, I see no reason to change his style. The passing attempts must go up. Let him throw on 1st down. The yards through the air must improve, the completion percentage must improve. If the passing game gets better, everyone will stop worryng about how many rushing attempts Tebow has.
        Cam newton doesnt try to bulldoze through everybody for extra yards.

        Which is why tim needs to improve his passing so he wont have the mindset that he needs to work for every single yard instead of just sliding

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        • #34
          He got injured in the pocket on a sack.

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          • #35
            Wear and Tear

            He averaged about ten rushing attempts per game. That includes scrambles on called pass plays.

            I think ten rushing attempts per game on called run plays should be the maximum. Five or six would be better in order to include Double Option from direct snap/shotgun formations as a threat for which D must account.

            IMO the Broncos should emphasize the power run game with assignment blocking more, with Option 20-30% of the run plays.
            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Justblaze2729 View Post
              Cam newton doesnt try to bulldoze through everybody for extra yards.
              He actually does. He's quite punishing. He's learning, like Tebow, not to waste any wear and tear on his body. But he flat run through that line if he needs to.

              I was as impressed as I could be with him last year at Auburn. For a short while (a few weeks) my mind was reeling and thinking "Is is just that coaches needed to call it? Are there a lot of people that could do this if called upon?" As the season wore on, I became convinced Newton was very, very special in all phases. His rookie season in the NFL has confirmed that for me.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
                I think Tebow's got to get that down a bit, especially the designed runs up the middle called from the sidelines from McCoy.

                This is key: McCoy needs to install more of an audible system that is keyed to the blocking and formation, the defense Tebow sees. Allow Tebow the ability to audible into a play where he runs it (or has that option). That way, every run by Tebow can be expended on a play he perceives as very advantageous and not likely to be hit as hard. You should get maximum "keep 'em honest" out of every Tebow run. None of his runs should be expended on plays where "Uh, this isn't going to get much, but Coach McCoy called it, so here goes." The wear and tear on the quarterback is not worth on a play where the defense is not necessarily napping.

                If you do that, it becomes a force multiplier, because every time the defense is worried if they don't honor it, he'll do it. Save them up for those situations where they don't honor it.
                This is very good in theory, but this hinges solely on Tebow's ability to improve his basic QB play this off-season. I am hopeful that having the entire offseason to work on these things in specific order with McCoy will result in marked progress. The problem with complicating the play-calling is that Tebow had far too many series this season where he looked uncomfortable, out of his element, and sometimes just plain lost on some very basic play calls. It was widely known that they had "dumbed down" the playbook to allow for him to be comfortable in the scheme. If he's having trouble reading defenses and progressions and doing some of the basic things an NFL QB should be able to do, further complicating the process with audibles based on his ability to read at the line and adjust immediately after the snap is asking for trouble.

                You're right in that the play-calling should be more varied and complex, but until Tebow shows that he has mastered the basics, it will have to stay simplified. I think that if he really (REALLY) works on solidifying his mechanics before camp, he can focus more on mastering the playbook in camp. That would be a great help in moving the entire offense forward, and in the end, it will lessen the beating his body takes in games.

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                • #38
                  There's no sustainability for running QBs in the NFL.

                  You can lie to yourself all you want and say that this is irrelevant because "Tebow got hurt in the pocket", but he got beat up outside of the pocket all year. There were multiple reports and people that were reporters in the locker room saying that Tebow had his arm and shoulder wrapped and iced at other times late in the season.

                  Jay3 is about the closest to right. There should be no designed runs. Designed run means "its up to you" and we all know Tebow would try and run through a brick wall. Running as a secondary option is probably for the best.
                  sigpic

                  Hooray, beer!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by tat2matt View Post
                    This is very good in theory, but this hinges solely on Tebow's ability to improve his basic QB play this off-season.
                    Which I think is a given, for most people. Tebow won't be playing QB in this league for long if this season was his ceiling as a passer.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
                      Which I think is a given, for most people. Tebow won't be playing QB in this league for long if this season was his ceiling as a passer.
                      And even I don't think he's hit his ceiling as a passer.
                      sigpic

                      Hooray, beer!

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by draco193 View Post
                        Something I've always wondered about the argument that Tim can't keep running: People always want a primary back, someone to take those 20 carries a game. Why would we expect them to be able to do that, but not expect Tim to take 10-12 a game?
                        QBs are more sensitive to injury. A RB can hurt his hand, or his shoulder and still do his job; an upper body injury is devastating to a QB's accuracy.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                          he got beat up running it before that.......

                          between running the ball and sacks and hits in the pocket he is getting hit almost 50% of the snaps, come on now be realistic. That is NOT sustainable.
                          Wow tebow has been injured 3 times his whole college and nfl career. One time from running it and twice in the pocket. So 66.33% of the time was from he pocket. When he runs he can brace for hits and take less of a beating compared to being hit in the pocket. As he gets older yes he obviously will need to run less, but he is built to take hits while running for now.

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                          • #43
                            I will never say Tim needs to stop running. But what he needs to do is make that the secondary threat to his game. If he can become a good pocket passer and force defenses to respect that, then it will make his ability to run a much greater threat. It should save his body from alot of punishment as well.

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Urbs View Post
                              Wow tebow has been injured 3 times his whole college and nfl career. One time from running it and twice in the pocket. So 66.33% of the time was from he pocket. When he runs he can brace for hits and take less of a beating compared to being hit in the pocket. As he gets older yes he obviously will need to run less, but he is built to take hits while running for now.
                              That's an excellent to plan for a long, productive career...damn the future, he can take the beating now.

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                              • #45
                                Man, didn't he learn from that preseason game in Cincy?

                                Ran for the TD, but got belted and a tad injured. He has to get rid of the ball, I respect him for trying to extend the play and all that, but he will get himself killed out there.
                                sigpic

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