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DP: Late-season injuries prove that Tim Tebow can't make a living as a run-first qb

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  • neckbeard
    replied
    Originally posted by Roddoliver View Post
    "You will take bigger hits standing in the pocket than you will out in the open when you can see things."

    Sean Salisbury, former NFL quarterback.

    http://stationcaster.com/player_skin...c=737&f=381201
    If the pocket is such an inherently dangerous place, then why are there so many pocket QBs and so many pocket-based offensive systems in the NFL?

    Why are so many teams so willing to recklessly risk the single most important player on the roster in the death-trap that is a pocket?

    Why don't they just draft all of those scrambling college QBs and just let them run free, untouched and unharmed?

    Leave a comment:


  • samparnell
    replied
    Power run

    Adjustment attacking runs

    PAP/Boot

    Scramble

    Occasional Double Option from gun

    Leave a comment:


  • ParkHill-71
    replied
    As a converted Tebow fan, I must say I find it funny that other Tebow supporters think this guy can with stand the punishment of the NFL linebackers, D-linemen, and hard hitting safeties for a 16 game season and if he does that, also take the abuse and physicality of the playoffs if it were to come to fruition, by running all the time like it's a college game.

    The guys isn't a god. In my "opinion" I noticed the guy stopped running in the last few games even when he had open lanes and we could have used the 3 thru 4 or more yards at times. Also, in those last few games it looked as if he was tentative even when he slid. It didn't look like the same guy I watched early in the season. So I have to assume he was already hurt and didn't want to make anything worse. Thats in a shortenend season for him.

    My faith in him succeeding has to do with him improving in the pocket and trusting himself to throwing receivers open. If he can do that, and (trust me) I am seriously hopeing he can, then he will be fine. If he can't learn to do that consistently, then he wont be here in Denver. This unfortunately is a fact!

    For my Broncos sake, I hope he succeeds!!!!
    Last edited by ParkHill-71; 01-31-2012, 04:52 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • -Rod-
    replied
    "You will take bigger hits standing in the pocket than you will out in the open when you can see things."

    Sean Salisbury, former NFL quarterback.

    http://stationcaster.com/player_skin...c=737&f=381201

    Leave a comment:


  • roperdoug
    replied
    Originally posted by All the Orange View Post
    You all are obviously unwilling to listen to facts and reason. Look at the laundry list of injured pocket QBs. W/e though if you can't see the difference in between preparing for a run and getting smashed in the pocket, and don't understand the physics difference from the two I really can't help you. You can 'take a hit' much better when you are ready for it.



    Can you really not see the difference?


    But seriously why don't you get it? Is it the facts? The videos? The IR report? The list of injured pocket QBs? The physics difference from taking a stationary hit to preparing for a hit? Or just the stubbornness of sticking to one point?

    Anyway, I've got better things to do then continuously point out facts on a message board. Time will tell.
    I tried to point that out too! I used Mark Bunnell with the Jags. He was a scrambling quarterback until Coughlin forced him to stay in the pocket. Just about the first game he stayed in the pocket, he got broadsided and busted his knee or ankle (can't remember which) which he never got over.
    I believe Ben Roethlisberger is a pocket quarterback and he got injured in the pocket. Scrambling is not for everybody but if you can to avoid a sack then run as long as it is not backward.

    Leave a comment:


  • neckbeard
    replied
    Originally posted by Yhawk View Post
    Really? You don't think that the coaches stress the dangers to look for with their QBs? That it isn't gone over repeatedly?
    As if any QB needs to be taught "Don't get hit". A QB gets hurt when his confidence in his offense line exceeds their competence.
    Yes, they do. Things happen a lot faster in the NFL then they do in college. Coaches understand this even if fans don't. So they DO teach their QBs to recognize dangerous situations and how to avoid them. No team wants to risk losing their starter and having to depend on the backup.

    The pocket is a dangerous place for TEBOW, not QBs in general. Because Tebow has never learned how to use the pocket properly since he's always had his safety valve of scrambling.
    If that was true then we would be talking about how injury prone he is. How much time has he missed due to injuries in the pocket during his college+pro career?
    It's just been stated that the only really serious injuries Tebow has ever suffered - either in college or the pros - has been in the pocket. It's a dangerous place for Timmy. Why? Because he doesn't know how to stay safe there. He bolts for open ground whenever there's a problem in there.

    And it only took two seasons to teach a running QB to slide. Kind of makes you wonder just how coachable Tebow really is...
    I don't know, let us know the other running QBs who learned faster.
    Come on, man!

    Really, how difficult is it to get thru an athlete's head that he will get hurt if he keeps trying to lower a shoulder and take a shot at a defender (where the rules don't protect a QB) as opposed to safely sliding once you've picked up a 1st down (where the rules heavily protect a QB)? If that's too tough a concept to grasp, how much "football smarts" can a QB have?

    Leave a comment:


  • elway93
    replied
    I don't think any quarterback can hold up running the ball that much. If he wants to last more than five or six years in the league I think he definitely needs to cut down on the running and work on being able to take games over from the pocket.

    Leave a comment:


  • LSIGRAD09
    replied
    Yes, QBs can get hurt in the pocket. QBs can also get smacked when they run.
    Truth is, if Tebow keeps up his running, he is going to get more in more hits, in addition to any he will take in the pocket.

    So he will get double the punishment.

    I'm very surprised at the amount of people who think he can continue running so much.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yhawk
    replied
    Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
    Really? You don't think that the coaches stress the dangers to look for with their QBs? That it isn't gone over repeatedly?
    As if any QB needs to be taught "Don't get hit". A QB gets hurt when his confidence in his offense line exceeds their competence.

    Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
    The pocket is a dangerous place for TEBOW, not QBs in general. Because Tebow has never learned how to use the pocket properly since he's always had his safety valve of scrambling.
    If that was true then we would be talking about how injury prone he is. How much time has he missed due to injuries in the pocket during his college+pro career?


    Originally posted by neckbeard View Post
    And it only took two seasons to teach a running QB to slide. Kind of makes you wonder just how coachable Tebow really is...
    I don't know, let us know the other running QBs who learned faster.

    Leave a comment:


  • MaloCS
    replied
    If I recall correctly Tebow got hurt IN the pocket not out of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • SBboundBRONCOS
    replied
    where are the middle group of people who think IF tebow can become a good QB in this league they dont want him taking more hits than necessary just because he can


    and yes obviously more QBs get hurt in the pocket . . . and the grass is green and water is wet

    Leave a comment:


  • neckbeard
    replied
    Originally posted by Yhawk View Post
    More people die each year crossing the street at the crosswalk than they do jaywalking. Why? Because the crosswalk gives people a false sense of security. This is why qbs get hurt more in the pocket.
    Really? You don't think that the coaches stress the dangers to look for with their QBs? That it isn't gone over repeatedly?

    As much running Tebow did this year his only significant injury happened in the pocket. Hell as much running Tebow did in college his worst injury (concussion) happened when he was in the pocket setting up for the pass. His football career is a perfect example on why the pocket is still the most dangerous place for a qb.
    The pocket is a dangerous place for TEBOW, not QBs in general. Because Tebow has never learned how to use the pocket properly since he's always had his safety valve of scrambling.

    And if you people haven't noticed, Tebow now slides at the end his runs now. It is not like he is getting pounded on every run.
    And it only took two seasons to teach a running QB to slide. Kind of makes you wonder just how coachable Tebow really is...
    Last edited by neckbeard; 01-30-2012, 10:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yhawk
    replied
    More people die each year crossing the street at the crosswalk than they do jaywalking. Why? Because the crosswalk gives people a false sense of security. This is why qbs get hurt more in the pocket.

    As much running Tebow did this year his only significant injury happened in the pocket. Hell as much running Tebow did in college his worst injury (concussion) happened when he was in the pocket setting up for the pass. His football career is a perfect example on why the pocket is still the most dangerous place for a qb.

    And if you people haven't noticed, Tebow now slides at the end his runs now. It is not like he is getting pounded on every run.

    Leave a comment:


  • neckbeard
    replied
    Originally posted by All the Orange View Post
    The problem with this is that it is faulty logic. It's like saying you shouldn't swim because you might drown or you shouldn't eat because you might choke. If you play football you have a chance of getting injured. I'm not sure if anybody told you, but they usually try to hit the guy with the ball. If you play it might happen.

    Here is a list of pocket QBs injured this year:

    Andy Dalton
    Matt Shaub
    Alex Smith
    Jason Campbell
    Kerry Collins
    Peyton Manning
    Mathew Stafford
    Sam Bradford
    Ben Roethlisberger
    Tony Romo
    Matt Leinart
    Matt Moore
    Matt Hasselbeck
    Ryan Fitzpatrick
    Kevin Kolb
    Christian Ponder
    Matt Cassel
    Jay Cutler
    Rex Grossman
    Colt McCoy
    Kyle Orton (finger lol)
    A.J. Feeley
    T.J. Yates
    Tom Brady

    THE NUMBER OF TIMES TIM TEBOW APPEARED ON THE INJURY REPORT IS ZERO!!! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. Is your entire argument..."umm dude well he seems to get hit a lot and um dude that really looks like it hurts man" Guess what, Tebow knows, Tebow doesn't care. The one time he did get injured was when the offensive line had a collapse of epic proportions and he was forced to stand in the pocket and take hit after hit after hit. Obviously the facts speak for themselves. If anything, pocket passers take more damage most likely because they cannot prepare themselves for the hits.

    /rant off

    //thread
    OK.

    First of all, injuries happen to everyone in the NFL. Being listed (or not) on an injury report isn't always reliable. Tom Brady was on the injury report every week for YEARS and he still played.

    Also, not all of the QBs listed were unable to play.

    Third, not all of the "pocket QBs" were injured in the pocket. For example, Jay Cutler broke his thumb trying to tackle a Defender who had picked him off. It happened along the sideline.

    Finally, yes there are far more QB injuries in the pocket than outside simply because that's where almost all QBs spend almost all of their time. It's like saying 99% of all shark attacks occur within 6 feet of shore. It doesn't mean that you're safer from a shark attack 15 feet out, it's just that 99% of swimmers stay within 6 ft of the shore...
    Last edited by neckbeard; 01-30-2012, 07:07 AM.

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  • All the Orange
    replied
    Originally posted by Pistachia View Post
    You seem to assume that all risk is equal. Swimming in a shark-infested ocean is more dangerous than swimming in a pool. Eating sushi in a filthy dive is more dangerous than a cheese sandwich.

    Football is, in fact, dangerous. That doesn't mean it's not possible to make decisions which dramatically increase the already significant risks. A QB frequently running a ball is just more dangerous than passing, period. Risks cannot be avoided, but they can be calculated and managed.
    You all are obviously unwilling to listen to facts and reason. Look at the laundry list of injured pocket QBs. W/e though if you can't see the difference in between preparing for a run and getting smashed in the pocket, and don't understand the physics difference from the two I really can't help you. You can 'take a hit' much better when you are ready for it.



    Can you really not see the difference?


    But seriously why don't you get it? Is it the facts? The videos? The IR report? The list of injured pocket QBs? The physics difference from taking a stationary hit to preparing for a hit? Or just the stubbornness of sticking to one point?

    Anyway, I've got better things to do then continuously point out facts on a message board. Time will tell.

    Leave a comment:

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