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Kiszla: Broncos living in past with Tim Tebow

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    I would agree, you can't make a determination on any NFL player after only 5 or 6 games. I'm someone who thinks Jimmy Claussen could succeed in the NFL if he were given some proper coaching (a few years worth!) and was put into an offense with a good o-line. But I fully admit he's not the Broncos starting QB so I don't look at him nearly as critically as I do anyone lining up behind center for the Broncos.
    I'm surprised! I thought I was the only one who still believe Jimmy Clausen could succeed in the NFL.

    You can't make a determination on any NFL player after 5 or 6 games. But when you look at Tebow, he doesn't project well as an NFL QB. The thing with people like Kiszla is, their minds was probably made up when Tebow was at UF. People said then that his game didn't translate well to the NFL, and they are going to stick with it until Tebow proves them wrong (if that's possible)
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    • #47
      Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
      No, he wasn't all wrong. he said tebow couldn't make routine NFL throws which is true, so far. I also think it was true that some of the players and coaching staff didn't think they could win with him. That might have changed between now and then but I think it was true, and correct, at the time.
      He can make routine throws.

      I don't agree with you.

      If he could not his completion percentage would be 5% instead of 46%

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
        Um. No.

        You work on things in practice, yes? Why do you work on things in practice? To use in games, right? Otherwise, why are you there?

        So, the things you try in practice, you need to try in games, correct?

        You have to get a game plan where you do more than launch deep balls and deep crossing patterns. Can you honestly tell me how the passing game grew as the season went along? We were doing the same sorry things against the Raiders that we were doing against the Patriots. How does that develop Tebow? How did he grow? I can say he was more consistent with his mechanics, but how did that help him?

        The point is teach Tebow a concept against cover 3. Okay? For example, you attack deep, intermediate, and in the flat against a cover 3. Why? You have 2 players playing the perimeter of a cover 3. That's why.



        See the strong safety? He's your read.

        That's concept 1. If he takes flat, go to the intermediate sideline pattern. If he goes inside? Take intermediate sideline pattern. If he goes to the sideline/curl? Take the flat. That's 1 concept.

        Concept 2 agaisnt cover 3. Attack deep zone. Run the deep third guy off and come underneath that deep with a smash route and have a guy in the intermediate. Make the safety choose again. He either gets depth or he takes the intermediate guy.

        That's how your passing game grows. Ours didn't grow in those terms.
        There's NO way that they haven't worked on reading defenses with Tebow, in fact the majority of well coached high school QB's can properly read basic defenses. Tebow has shown the ability to read defenses, against Chicago in the 4th quarter he picked apart the cover 3, against Minnesota he picked apart the cover 2 and against Pittsburgh he picked apart cover 1 and 0.

        IMO Tebow's biggest problems with his reads are that he hasn't developed the ability to slow things down in his head, and trust his reads, instead he's thinking too much and panicking.

        That's why I believe he's so much better in the 2 minute drill, he doesn't think as much he just sees and reacts....if he can master that for the first 55 minutes (and fix his footwork) he's got a chance of developing into what he needs to be.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by JayJack View Post
          I'm surprised! I thought I was the only one who still believe Jimmy Clausen could succeed in the NFL.

          You can't make a determination on any NFL player after 5 or 6 games. But when you look at Tebow, he doesn't project well as an NFL QB. The thing with people like Kiszla is, their minds was probably made up when Tebow was at UF. People said then that his game didn't translate well to the NFL, and they are going to stick with it until Tebow proves them wrong (if that's possible)
          If going 8-5 as a starter on a team that was HORRIBLE in the previous 31 games (worst in the NFL during that span) and helping win a playoff game with a record setting performance passing is not going to do it. Then pretty much nothing will.

          So I guess "proving them wrong" is winning a superbowl (maybe) but that won't work either.

          I'll make this bet right now. If Denver wins a superbowl in the next 5 years and Tebow is the QB, the same group will say they won it "in spite" of him.

          HE WILL NEVER PROVE THEM WRONG BECAUSE THEY WONT LET IT EVER HAPPEN.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Mk2_Tebow View Post
            He can make routine throws.

            I don't agree with you.

            If he could not his completion percentage would be 5% instead of 46%
            I dont think this is completely true. However, I dont think its completely wrong either. Its conjecture! Most of his throws were simply man on man converage. He did not throw to spots consistently. He didnt manipulate the defense with his eyes consistently. I would hope that even the most biassed Tebow supporter would see that he held the ball in situations were he could lead the receivers open over the middle of the field.

            So, basically, we dont know if he can or can't consistently, all we know is that he didn't do it consistently!

            We will see here in the future.
            Last edited by ParkHill-71; 01-31-2012, 05:04 PM.
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            • #51
              Originally posted by JayJack View Post
              I'm surprised! I thought I was the only one who still believe Jimmy Clausen could succeed in the NFL.

              You can't make a determination on any NFL player after 5 or 6 games. But when you look at Tebow, he doesn't project well as an NFL QB. The thing with people like Kiszla is, their minds was probably made up when Tebow was at UF. People said then that his game didn't translate well to the NFL, and they are going to stick with it until Tebow proves them wrong (if that's possible)
              Yep, Pete Prisco is the same way, it doesn't matter who Denver was going against or what Tebow had done, Prisco was going to pick the other team to win based solely on the fact that he doesn't like Tebow.

              I'm very critical of Tebow, but I still cheer for him because he's a Bronco, I just see that he has a long way to go, I hope he gets there one day, but if it's going to take as long as Steve Young (7 years) I just don't want to wait for it to be in Denver.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Crazy8 View Post
                Um. No.

                You work on things in practice, yes? Why do you work on things in practice? To use in games, right? Otherwise, why are you there?

                So, the things you try in practice, you need to try in games, correct?

                You have to get a game plan where you do more than launch deep balls and deep crossing patterns. Can you honestly tell me how the passing game grew as the season went along? We were doing the same sorry things against the Raiders that we were doing against the Patriots. How does that develop Tebow? How did he grow? I can say he was more consistent with his mechanics, but how did that help him?

                The point is teach Tebow a concept against cover 3. Okay? For example, you attack deep, intermediate, and in the flat against a cover 3. Why? You have 2 players playing the perimeter of a cover 3. That's why.



                See the strong safety? He's your read.


                That's concept 1. If he takes flat, go to the intermediate sideline pattern. If he goes inside? Take intermediate sideline pattern. If he goes to the sideline/curl? Take the flat. That's 1 concept.

                Concept 2 agaisnt cover 3. Attack deep zone. Run the deep third guy off and come underneath that deep with a smash route and have a guy in the intermediate. Make the safety choose again. He either gets depth or he takes the intermediate guy.

                That's how your passing game grows. Ours didn't grow in those terms.
                That looks like an illegal formation; eight on LOS.
                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Mk2_Tebow View Post
                  If going 8-5 as a starter on a team that was HORRIBLE in the previous 31 games (worst in the NFL during that span) and helping win a playoff game with a record setting performance passing is not going to do it. Then pretty much nothing will.

                  So I guess "proving them wrong" is winning a superbowl (maybe) but that won't work either.

                  I'll make this bet right now. If Denver wins a superbowl in the next 5 years and Tebow is the QB, the same group will say they won it "in spite" of him.

                  HE WILL NEVER PROVE THEM WRONG BECAUSE THEY WONT LET IT EVER HAPPEN.
                  I think that Pitt game is waaaay overblown. Tebow will NEVER see that kind of coverage again. So while I give him credit for good ball placement, that game wasn't enough to make me think we have our guy. I'm no where near that conclusion.
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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Mk2_Tebow View Post
                    If going 8-5 as a starter on a team that was HORRIBLE in the previous 31 games (worst in the NFL during that span) and helping win a playoff game with a record setting performance passing is not going to do it. Then pretty much nothing will.

                    So I guess "proving them wrong" is winning a superbowl (maybe) but that won't work either.

                    I'll make this bet right now. If Denver wins a superbowl in the next 5 years and Tebow is the QB, the same group will say they won it "in spite" of him.

                    HE WILL NEVER PROVE THEM WRONG BECAUSE THEY WONT LET IT EVER HAPPEN.
                    I disagree with your bolded comment, because it happened to another player this year. Before the season Eli Manning said he was an elite QB and everyone in the media and fans laughed, the season played out Eli was phenomenal, the Giants are in the Super Bowl (because of Eli) and now everyone is comfortable with considering him elite. If Tebow shows he's an elite passer, or even an average passer, people will acknowledge it!

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                      That looks like an illegal formation; eight on LOS.
                      Hahaha, nice catch! That would be the QB's first read to recognize that and get his WR off the line.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                        Yep, Pete Prisco is the same way, it doesn't matter who Denver was going against or what Tebow had done, Prisco was going to pick the other team to win based solely on the fact that he doesn't like Tebow.

                        I'm very critical of Tebow, but I still cheer for him because he's a Bronco, I just see that he has a long way to go, I hope he gets there one day, but if it's going to take as long as Steve Young (7 years) I just don't want to wait for it to be in Denver.
                        I live in Jax, Pete lives here also, and he's one of the Sport Talk Radio Shows that comes on here, so I know how he feel about Tebow. And I agree about supporting Tebow. Honestly, I would love for him to succeed, but like yourself, i'm not willing to wait years for that to happen.
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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by JayJack View Post
                          I think that Pitt game is waaaay overblown. Tebow will NEVER see that kind of coverage again. So while I give him credit for good ball placement, that game wasn't enough to make me think we have our guy. I'm no where near that conclusion.
                          of course you think the Pitt game is over blown,LOL

                          He had pressure that I have rarely seen a professional athlete go into a game with. They had his back up warming up on the sideline after he helped get a team to a playoff birth when all the fans were wondring about was andrew luck after the 5th game of the year . It seemed like every analyst gave him no shot.

                          You discount the ice water in hs veins to even make those throws. You can't teach that moxy.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                            I disagree with your bolded comment, because it happened to another player this year. Before the season Eli Manning said he was an elite QB and everyone in the media and fans laughed, the season played out Eli was phenomenal, the Giants are in the Super Bowl (because of Eli) and now everyone is comfortable with considering him elite. If Tebow shows he's an elite passer, or even an average passer, people will acknowledge it!
                            Great point,..... it would be cool to think so but so few QBs ever make it to a superbowl to begin with.
                            Tebow, no matter how good he does has a low percentage to change the mind of the analyst and writers dead set on being right about him being a bust.

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                            • #59
                              PFFF.....

                              Winning championships trumps opinions from writers and talk show pundits....lol...

                              If he wins, he will get his due credit
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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Mk2_Tebow View Post
                                of course you think the Pitt game is over blown,LOL

                                He had pressure that I have rarely seen a professional athlete go into a game with. They had his back up warming up on the sideline after he helped get a team to a playoff birth when all the fans were wondring about was andrew luck after the 5th game of the year . It seemed like every analyst gave him no shot.

                                You discount the ice water in hs veins to even make those throws. You can't teach that moxy.
                                Tebows body of work throughout those 13 games were unimpressive to say the least. I've stated since day one of him being the starter that wins aren't everything in Tebow's case, so that win streak doesn't mean jack to me. If Tebow could play the 1st 55 like he does the last 5, we may have something on our hands. But I don't see it.
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