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  • #16
    Originally posted by BroncosPWNn00bs View Post
    Yea, if we draft a QB in the 1st or 2nd round, then it might be time to almost part ways with Tebow. I'm hoping for another season of him, and if he does well, and leads us to the playoffs, then hes our guy. If not, then we'll have a high pick and time to get our franchise QB. So I'm hoping we stay away from a QB in the early rounds.
    I see your point, but I don't think second round would be that much of a sign. That's the round a lot of quarterbacks are chosen, when they are not necessarily groomed to be "the franchise." There just aren't a lot of good quarterbacks to be found in each draft, and not a lot of Tom Brady stories out there. Especially where the Broncos will be picking, late in the 2d round. That may be the round.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
      I see your point, but I don't think second round would be that much of a sign. That's the round a lot of quarterbacks are chosen, when they are not necessarily groomed to be "the franchise." There just aren't a lot of good quarterbacks to be found in each draft, and not a lot of Tom Brady stories out there. Especially where the Broncos will be picking, late in the 2d round. That may be the round.
      That is true. We will be picking later. If we had like the 35th pick, and chose a QB, then I'd worry more. Still though, i don't want to go QB in the 1st or 2nd rounds. If we do draft 1 in one of those 2 rounds, then I still think there will be some concerns. Either way though, I just want to win. So I'll support whatever decision EFX make, whether I agree with it or not
      :salute: :goz: :salute:

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Jay3 View Post
        I see your point, but I don't think second round would be that much of a sign. That's the round a lot of quarterbacks are chosen, when they are not necessarily groomed to be "the franchise." There just aren't a lot of good quarterbacks to be found in each draft, and not a lot of Tom Brady stories out there. Especially where the Broncos will be picking, late in the 2d round. That may be the round.

        With all the other holes that the Bronchos have to fill, they have better things to do than to take a qb in the 2nd round.

        Shore up the rest of the team, see how Tebow works out, and if he's a bust, grab Barkley next year

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        • #19
          My guess... David carr and kellen moore.

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          • #20
            I think a second rounder is a prime position to get a quarterback. It doesn't mean that they have to be the guy and it doesn't mean they should be starting at any point. However it is of a player who is obviously talented enough to be a second rounder that is a good prospect who can provide competition and be a potential franchise quarterback if he can prove that.

            Trade for Mallet is the long shot hope I have but realistically possibly Brock Osweiler in the third if he is there. He is raw and has shown 1st round potential in games like against Missouri.

            And look at our past 2nd round picks for the last 5 years.

            2011: S-Rahim Moore / OT-Orlando Franklin
            2010: G-Zane Beadles
            2009: S-Darcel Mcbath / TE-Richard Quinn
            2008: WR-Eddie Royal
            2007: DE-Tim Crowder

            As you can see it is not setting your franchise back if you take the risk of drafting a second round quarterback. Look at the last 5 years. 3 starters out of 7 and Eddie Royal has not been inconsitant. Year 1 and 3 he was great. 2 and 4 he was average. It is worth the risk of taking a QB in the second round to compete and develop as either the backup or potentially the starter.
            Last edited by johnlimburg; 02-20-2012, 10:20 PM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by 12and4 View Post
              My guess... David carr and kellen moore.
              Sounds good to me!

              Sign me up

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              • #22
                Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
                I think a second rounder is a prime position to get a quarterback. It doesn't mean that they have to be the guy and it doesn't mean they should be starting at any point. However it is of a player who is obviously talented enough to be a second rounder that is a good prospect who can provide competition and be a potential franchise quarterback if he can prove that.

                Trade for Mallet is the long shot hope I have but realistically possibly Brock Osweiler in the third if he is there. He is raw and has shown 1st round potential in games like against Missouri.
                Taking a QB in the second round is silly in my opinion. I mean, there are two main possibilities; first, Tebow improves quite a bit and has a successful season. You just wasted a 2nd round pick for a backup QB who might never even get a chance to start in Denver, when you would have been find taking a 3rd rounder or later to be a "backup" in case Tebow got injured.

                Second possibility is that Tebow doesn't improve and whomever you take inthe 2nd round becomes the starter. Yep, another year or two for development and even then, you'll probably have a mid tier QB (unless it's someone who fell through the cracks like Brady).

                Historically speaking, second round QB picks have terrible odds. You're better off picking someone up in even later rounds with the hope that they will surprise you.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by demosthenes9 View Post
                  Taking a QB in the second round is silly in my opinion. I mean, there are two main possibilities; first, Tebow improves quite a bit and has a successful season. You just wasted a 2nd round pick for a backup QB who might never even get a chance to start in Denver, when you would have been find taking a 3rd rounder or later to be a "backup" in case Tebow got injured.

                  Second possibility is that Tebow doesn't improve and whomever you take inthe 2nd round becomes the starter. Yep, another year or two for development and even then, you'll probably have a mid tier QB (unless it's someone who fell through the cracks like Brady).

                  Historically speaking, second round QB picks have terrible odds. You're better off picking someone up in even later rounds with the hope that they will surprise you.
                  Well my ideal thing would be to trade for Mallet. He has all the tools to be a great quarterback.

                  But on the last part I hate looking at previous players and there rounds picked and making judgments on there prospects due to it. It is unfair. It would be like saying in Feb 2010 before Tebow was drafted that he will fail because heisman winning quarterbacks since 2000 have never lived up to the hype in the NFL.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by demosthenes9 View Post
                    Taking a QB in the second round is silly in my opinion. I mean, there are two main possibilities; first, Tebow improves quite a bit and has a successful season. You just wasted a 2nd round pick for a backup QB who might never even get a chance to start in Denver, when you would have been find taking a 3rd rounder or later to be a "backup" in case Tebow got injured.

                    Second possibility is that Tebow doesn't improve and whomever you take inthe 2nd round becomes the starter. Yep, another year or two for development and even then, you'll probably have a mid tier QB (unless it's someone who fell through the cracks like Brady).

                    Historically speaking, second round QB picks have terrible odds. You're better off picking someone up in even later rounds with the hope that they will surprise you.

                    So it's ok to waste a 2nd round pick on a guy like Richard Quinn or Darcel McBath, guys who added NOTHING but when there's a talented prospect that you are sure can lead your franchise you want to shy away from that?
                    RESTORE THE ORANGE CRUSH!!!!
                    :smash

                    LONG LIVE THE ORANGE AND BLUE!!!

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
                      Well my ideal thing would be to trade for Mallet. He has all the tools to be a great quarterback.

                      But on the last part I hate looking at previous players and there rounds picked and making judgments on there prospects due to it. It is unfair. It would be like saying in Feb 2010 before Tebow was drafted that he will fail because heisman winning quarterbacks since 2000 have never lived up to the hype in the NFL.
                      You have a valid point, BUT, then again, that is exactly what many people do.

                      here's teh list of QBs drafted in the second round going all the ay back to 1992:

                      Andy Dalton
                      Colin Kaepernick
                      Jimmy Clausen
                      Pat White
                      Brian Brohm
                      Chad Henne
                      Kevin Kolb
                      John Beck
                      Drew Stanton
                      Kellen Clemens
                      Tarvaris Jackson
                      *Drew Brees
                      Quincy Carter
                      Marques Tuiasosopo
                      Shaun King
                      Charlie Batch
                      *Jake Plummer
                      Tony Banks
                      Todd Collins
                      *Kordell Stewart
                      Matt Blundin
                      Tony Sacca


                      Brees is the only great QB in that list (and he was chosen with the 32nd pick, which would have made him a late first rounder today )

                      Stewart and Plummer had some success. Jackson and Henne have hung around for a bit but neither has been really successful. Could make a similar list of 3rd round picks as well. What's weird is that you can go to later rounds and find guys that ended up being better NFL QBs.

                      Again, this is why I wouldn't waste a 2nd round pick. If they think Tebow won't make it, then trade him, trade up and get a QB in the first round, or bring in some expensive FA and pray. If they think he will make it, then fill other holes, bring in a vet QB as a backup and perhaps draft a late rounder for 3rd string. If Tebow blows his chance, then take a QB in the first round next year.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mantheyman View Post
                        So it's ok to waste a 2nd round pick on a guy like Richard Quinn or Darcel McBath, guys who added NOTHING but when there's a talented prospect that you are sure can lead your franchise you want to shy away from that?
                        I'm not happy "wasting" any picks. It's a question of basic statistics. There are far fewer NFL caliber QBs in the draft than any other position. The QBs that are "considered" to be good prospects/risks will almost certainly be taken in the first round. BUT, you can pick up high quality players of other positions in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.


                        Of course, if there's a guy who fell through the cracks and you have total faith that he's a franchise QB and he's available in the 2nd, sure, go ahead and take him. But that's about as likely as a 30 year flood.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by demosthenes9 View Post
                          here's teh list of QBs drafted in the second round going all the ay back to 1992:

                          Andy Dalton
                          Colin Kaepernick
                          Jimmy Clausen
                          Pat White
                          Brian Brohm
                          Chad Henne
                          Kevin Kolb
                          John Beck
                          Drew Stanton
                          Kellen Clemens
                          Tarvaris Jackson
                          *Drew Brees
                          Quincy Carter
                          Marques Tuiasosopo
                          Shaun King
                          Charlie Batch
                          *Jake Plummer
                          Tony Banks
                          Todd Collins
                          *Kordell Stewart
                          Matt Blundin
                          Tony Sacca
                          The thing is, about half those quarterbacks probably could have been pretty good if they were placed in a system that was right for them.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Alastor View Post
                            The thing is, about half those quarterbacks probably could have been pretty good if they were placed in a system that was right for them.
                            I'd quibble with calling them "pretty good", but to the rest, that's teh story of the NFL and why it's quite possible that Brady Quinn might make an impact somewhere

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by demosthenes9 View Post
                              You have a valid point, BUT, then again, that is exactly what many people do.

                              here's teh list of QBs drafted in the second round going all the ay back to 1992:

                              Andy Dalton
                              Colin Kaepernick
                              Jimmy Clausen
                              Pat White
                              Brian Brohm
                              Chad Henne
                              Kevin Kolb
                              John Beck
                              Drew Stanton
                              Kellen Clemens
                              Tarvaris Jackson
                              *Drew Brees
                              Quincy Carter
                              Marques Tuiasosopo
                              Shaun King
                              Charlie Batch
                              *Jake Plummer
                              Tony Banks
                              Todd Collins
                              *Kordell Stewart
                              Matt Blundin
                              Tony Sacca


                              Brees is the only great QB in that list (and he was chosen with the 32nd pick, which would have made him a late first rounder today )

                              Stewart and Plummer had some success. Jackson and Henne have hung around for a bit but neither has been really successful. Could make a similar list of 3rd round picks as well. What's weird is that you can go to later rounds and find guys that ended up being better NFL QBs.

                              Again, this is why I wouldn't waste a 2nd round pick. If they think Tebow won't make it, then trade him, trade up and get a QB in the first round, or bring in some expensive FA and pray. If they think he will make it, then fill other holes, bring in a vet QB as a backup and perhaps draft a late rounder for 3rd string. If Tebow blows his chance, then take a QB in the first round next year.
                              But I don't think it is as simple as knowing one way or not if he will fail and that is why a backup plan is there. And even so if the backup who is drafted in the second has good pre seasons he could become trade bait. QB's are hard to find and if teams think a guy has it like Kolb who played well in spot futy can net you some good returns.

                              And also as I said I beleive it is unfair to say the past second round QB history is bad so it gives said player less chance of succeeding. That is not true. Every situation should be taken on it's own merits.

                              And you forgot Andy Dalton. He deserves to be highlighted so far as a success for a second rounder.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by johnlimburg View Post
                                But I don't think it is as simple as knowing one way or not if he will fail and that is why a backup plan is there. And even so if the backup who is drafted in the second has good pre seasons he could become trade bait. QB's are hard to find and if teams think a guy has it like Kolb who played well in spot futy can net you some good returns.

                                And also as I said I beleive it is unfair to say the past second round QB history is bad so it gives said player less chance of succeeding. That is not true. Every situation should be taken on it's own merits.

                                And you forgot Andy Dalton. He deserves to be highlighted so far as a success for a second rounder.
                                Dalton had success THIS season, which was 1 whole season. Do you need to see a list of 1 hit wonders ?? I'm not saying that Dalton will be one, but it's waaaay too early to even think about saying that he's a good NFL QB overall.

                                As for the rest of your post, hope, hope, maybe, possibly, hope.

                                You are willing to risk a 2nd round pick on a QB that might not even play a down if Tebow does well, or, might come in and be serviceable at best, but hey, maybe, just maybe he can elevate his value and you can trade him ?

                                Again, not likely to happen as the evidence demonstrates. Funny that you place so little importance on 2nd round picks. Let's see, last I checked, offense and defense each have 11 positions. There are 32 teams in the league. That's 352 possible starting slots to fill, not counting kickers and punters.

                                There's a much higher likelyhood of a good quality player from another position being available in the 2nd round, why do you insist on wasting that pick on a QB who wouldn't be projected to be a starter or even have an impact ?

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