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Denver Broncos: All-time underrated, overrated players

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
    I doubt u actually read his book or u would realize how wrong you are.

    Shannahan's biggest fault is he kept trying to replicate defensive moves that luckily paid off to win super bowls.

    To fully understand just how much Shannahan changed the team look at the defensive players who got playing time under Wade and see just how different the players were in our 2nd Super Bowl win year.

    I definately feel he was the prime reason our defense became so bad towards his end here but anyone who is trying to dismiss the things he did accomplish early in his time here are just as wrong as he was late in his denver stay.

    Make no mistake about no coach wins the championship, they all assemble the correct coaches who put the plan and coach the players who then win a championship.

    Without allot of great players and assistant coaches no one would reconize bill walsh either.

    Great coaches and great players go hand in hand (edit) when it comes to team success. When u have one without the other u get Barry Sanders.
    winning the SB takes a team, that includes not only the players but coaches and administrators as well.
    Shanny had a big part in putting those 2 lombardis in the case, i have never disputed that !
    but far too often, shanny gets credit for the broncos run game and the zone blocking that was the foundation of our offense.

    SHANAHAN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE O LINE OR THE RUNNING BACKS!
    I stand by that comment 100 %
    shanny always gets the credit when people talk about how the broncos ran the ball!!!
    over-rated !
    gibbs and turner are the architects of the broncos run game, not shanny !

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    • #47
      Originally posted by AZ bronco View Post
      winning the SB takes a team, that includes not only the players but coaches and administrators as well.
      Shanny had a big part in putting those 2 lombardis in the case, i have never disputed that !
      but far too often, shanny gets credit for the broncos run game and the zone blocking that was the foundation of our offense.

      SHANAHAN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE O LINE OR THE RUNNING BACKS!
      I stand by that comment 100 %
      shanny always gets the credit when people talk about how the broncos ran the ball!!!
      over-rated !
      gibbs and turner are the architects of the broncos run game, not shanny !
      If you have any reading available about the "architect" of our run game I would love to read it.

      From what I read in various articles Shanahan learned the basic fundamental concept while in SF and worked together with others to design it. How much of it was just taking the cut blocking sf used and how much of it was original I honestly dunno.

      I do know the year we lost to Jax Shanahan did not know exactly what we had in the running game and it was Gibbs constantly in Shanahan's ear about using that dominant run game more.

      The bottom line was tho that Shanahan had the final say on everything...and while others told him their opinion it was still Shanahan's call on what to do.

      Broncos fans know first hand not all head coaches work well with others and listen to others opinions *points to McDestroyer"

      people can say Shanahan was nothing without this player or that coach but the same can be said about every head coach.

      Belicheck has one playoff win without Brady

      Walsh would not get near the reconition he gets without a grip of HoFers who played for him and a ton of good coaches.

      I do not think Shanahan is as good as Walsh but I definately think he is better then one playoff win without Brady Belicheat

      Every player who played for Shanahan while they won Super Bowls will tell you how good he is at coaching to a players strength...he just sucks as a GM.
      Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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      • #48
        I'd say 80% of DEN players are underrated and 10% overrated, with the other 10% just right
        "Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion." Jimmy Ruffin

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        • #49
          Alex Gibbs was OL Coach for the Broncos 1984-87, the same years Mike Shanahan was OC. When Shanahan became HC of the Raiders, he took Gibbs with him to Oakland. They were reunited in 1995 when Shanahan became HC of the Broncos. For the next nine years, Alex Gibbs was Assistant HC/OL Coach. I don't think Bobby Turner had any NFL coaching experience before coming to the Broncos.

          Alex Gibbs is acknowledged as the NFL's Zone Blocking Series expert. He didn't invent zone blocking. It is an integral part of Veer which has been around since the Sixties. Vince Lombardi called it "Do-Dad" blocking. Gibb's rushing attack was a response to NFL defenses defeating angle/assignment blocking rushing attacks by sugaring, or shifting prior to the snap in order to disrupt the O-Line's blocking assignments.

          Shanahan was in the Bay area when Bill Walsh was HC of the Niners. When Walsh left the Niners in 1989, George Seifert went from DC to HC and Mike Holmgren went from QB Coach to OC. In 1992, Shanahan succeeded Holmgren as OC when the latter became Packers' HC. Shanahan and the Niners won it all in 1994 and he left San Francisco to return to Denver as HC.

          Even though Walsh left the Niners in 1989, his offensive system remained in place along with his assistants. It's safe to say Mike Shanahan learned the West Coast Offense in San Francisco. I have some WCO playbooks including one of Walsh's. I do not recall a zone series being part of San Francisco's rushing attack then. If someone knows differently, let me know, but I don't remember the Niners' rushing attack under Shanahan being a zone series.

          The impression I have is that Alex Gibbs was able to develop and perfect his concepts of the zone blocking rushing attack when he was OL Coach under Shanahan in Denver 1995-2003. Shanahan's contribution was marrying the WCO passing attack to Gibbs' Zone Series.

          To my knowledge, Mike Shanahan never coached defense. He went through six DCs during his fourteen years as Denver's HC. With full control of the team, he didn't do a good job of acquiring adequate defensive talent which might have had something to do with having a different DC in each of his last three years in Denver.
          Last edited by samparnell; 07-11-2013, 04:51 PM.
          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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          • #50
            funny how shanny had a dog-doo run game in DC until he was able to hire bobby turner.
            when people say garbage l;ike.
            "shanahan could make anyone a 1500 yard rusher'
            It aggrivates me because shanny takes all the credit when he deserves less than 20%
            he is overrated.receiving credit for things he has little impacton.
            but folks are entitled to their opinions, love him all you want.
            just remember john hancock didnt author the declaration of independance, he just had the largest signature.

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            • #51
              While we used the zone blocking scheme the thing that made it really effectice was the cut blocking SF had been using since the 80s (after a Rathman cutblock Mecklenburg was never the same player)

              Our championship teams would use the cut block to accomplish two things. One cutblock to open up a lane for the rb. Two cutblock the big DTs on every play possible to wear them out (See Gilbert Brown in our first Super Bowl win).

              Also not sure if "cutblock" is right term. Essentially I am talking about offensive players going at the legs of defenders to put them on the ground so to take them completely out of the play.

              I watch and read a ton of football but I also realize some terms change from team to team or from era to era
              Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

              Comment


              • #52
                people oftewn confuse a cut block with a chop block, they are entirely different.

                football is all about accentuating your strengths and minimizing your weaknesses.
                on D you try to accentuate the opponents weaknesses and take away their strengths.

                a CUT BLOCK is a block below the waist, it allows a faster, yet smaller or weaker player to use his speed and agility to attack a defender at his weakest point, his legs, while avoiding the strength of his arms and upper body.
                it also forces a Dlineman into lateral movement, reducing his backfield pursuit and as he moves laterally the blockers are no longer one on one and can therefore cut block, not the man directly in front of him, but the unsuspecting guy to the right or left.
                a CHOP BLOCK is when a defender is already "engaged' with another blocker and a second blocker takes a shot at his legs. this is now illegal, yet often called incorrectly in many games .

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                • #53
                  shanahan , passing guru.
                  gibbs and turner, the true architects of the broncos run game of the late '90's.
                  gary Kubiak, the guy who actualy made up the weekly gameplan on offense and designed the 20 play opening script.
                  BTW scripte3d plays was a frisco concept originated by WALSH.
                  Who calls the plays and makes out the script in DC?
                  yes its, shanahan.... KYLE !
                  and where did KYLE aprentis before going to work for his dad?
                  thats right, houston with KUBIAK !
                  KUBIAK might be the most underrated bronco of all time, simply because shanny wilingly accepted the credit for everything kubiak did.
                  same with gibbs and turner.
                  This is why I call shanny a figurehead !

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Cut blocking isn't actually part of the Zone Series used in the Denver Bronco rushing attack when Shanahan was HC. They did use some cut blocks on other run plays, but that type of block isn't a zone block.

                    In Super Bowl XXXII, Gilbert Brown got worn down more as a result of being run by an OL that was taking a zone step, locking up, building a wall and flowing in one direction sometimes handing defenders off while working to the second level.

                    Gilbert couldn't pursue and couldn't run with a lighter, more athletic OL that was mostly running away from him. He wasn't quick enough to disengage and make a play on Zone Stretch Cutback. He was effective against teams that used angle/assignment blocking between the tackles, but not against the relentless lateral movement of Denver's OL.

                    PS A cut block aimed at a defenders legs usually results in both players on the ground. The cutoff block (aka reach, scoop) is an integral part of backside blocks on zone plays.
                    Last edited by samparnell; 07-12-2013, 11:00 AM.
                    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                      Cut blocking isn't actually part of the Zone Series used in the Denver Bronco rushing attack when Shanahan was HC. They did use some cut blocks on other run plays, but that type of block isn't a zone block.

                      In Super Bowl XXXII, Gilbert Brown got worn down more as a result of being run by an OL that was taking a zone step, locking up, building a wall and flowing in one direction sometimes handing defenders off while working to the second level.

                      Gilbert couldn't pursue and couldn't run with a lighter, more athletic OL that was mostly running away from him. He wasn't quick enough to disengage and make a play on Zone Stretch Cutback. He was effective against teams that used angle/assignment blocking between the tackles, but not against the relentless lateral movement of Denver's OL.

                      PS A cut block aimed at a defenders legs results in both players on the ground. The cutoff block (aka reach, scoop) is an integral part of backside blocks on zone plays.
                      Gilbert was done by the end of the 3rd quarter.
                      sigpic
                      Thank you to my grandfather jetrazor for being a veteran of the armed forces!

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