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  • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    if they were going to make other moves, they would have done that instead of getting Vallos. If these guys don't work out, they may rethink it though.
    Final cuts.
    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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    • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
      if they were going to make other moves, they would have done that instead of getting Vallos. If these guys don't work out, they may rethink it though.
      It's funny, because after going through various teams 2nd String Centers, it's amazing how few were Drafted. 90% (or more) of them are UDFA. Clearly, most teams are looking more for some degree of intelligence rather than overwhelming athletic ability. So, let's hope that we will all be looking back on the Vallos move in a couple of months "high-fiving" each other because Elway made the right move .......... again.

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      • Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
        It's funny, because after going through various teams 2nd String Centers, it's amazing how few were Drafted. 90% (or more) of them are UDFA. Clearly, most teams are looking more for some degree of intelligence rather than overwhelming athletic ability. So, let's hope that we will all be looking back on the Vallos move in a couple of months "high-fiving" each other because Elway made the right move .......... again.
        I believe this has a lot to do with how undervalued the center position is in the draft. For example, in 2012 I believe there was a total of 4 centers drafted. One in the 2nd (Konz), two in the 4th (Ben Jones and Phillip Blake), and one in the 7th (David Molk)

        There was about 6 drafted this past year. Eric Kush in the 6th, TJ Johnson in the 7th, Schwenke, Barrett, and Holmes in the 4th, and Frederick in the 1st.

        For comparison purposes, there were a total of 4 specialist drafted this year (Punters and Kickers) and 6 last year. So in the last two years there have been just as many combined punters and kickers drafted as there have been Centers drafted.

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        • I wouldn't mind bringing back Cooper Carlisle in for depth.Maybe he can convert and be a backup center.

          http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/...ooper-carlisle

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          • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
            He'll be in the mix for the starting spot.....
            The comparison of Manny and Vallos is interesting. They were both drafted in 2007, Manny in the 4th round by Detroit and Vallos in the 7th by Seattle.

            Manny was a C in HS. He made the line calls from the RG position at Texas Tech. He started twelve games at LG for Detroit in 2009, and was released in Oct. 2010. He was signed by the Broncos in Jan. 2011. Last year he started eleven games at RG next to Walton, and then Koppen who apparently is working with Manny now. If he starts this year, he will be next to Louis Vasquez, a friend from TT.

            Steve Vallos played RT at Wake Forest. NFLDraftScout's profile described him as a Tackle trapped in a Guard's body. The Seahawks converted him to C which is a common position change for OTs. Vallos started five games at C for Seattle in 2008 and three at G in 2009. He was with Cleveland in 2009/10 and didn't have any starts. He was with Jacksonville and Philly last year and had one start at G for the Jags.

            Vallos will compete for the starting C spot, but based on the info I was able to dig up, I think Manny will start and do a good job. A bit of trivia which might be of interest is that Manny benched 550 and squatted 785 while at TT. At the Combine he had 40 bench reps. One wonders if he still retains that strength.
            "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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            • Originally posted by Matymaddog View Post
              I believe this has a lot to do with how undervalued the center position is in the draft. For example, in 2012 I believe there was a total of 4 centers drafted. One in the 2nd (Konz), two in the 4th (Ben Jones and Phillip Blake), and one in the 7th (David Molk)

              There was about 6 drafted this past year. Eric Kush in the 6th, TJ Johnson in the 7th, Schwenke, Barrett, and Holmes in the 4th, and Frederick in the 1st.

              For comparison purposes, there were a total of 4 specialist drafted this year (Punters and Kickers) and 6 last year. So in the last two years there have been just as many combined punters and kickers drafted as there have been Centers drafted.
              Here's hoping Alex Gibbs has an affect on Blake, as it appears he's been just as unimpressive so far this TC as last summer. It was my understanding that "broken thumb" was all that kept Blake off the waiver wire. AND, as you pointed out, he was a 4th Round Pick! I remember when Shanahan used to go out of his way to Draft Centers, and move them to Guard. He was clearly taking advantage of having the most intelligent offensive linemen from their particular college who would be better prepared for the complexities involved in the Pro game.

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              • Not a massive loss but hurts.

                ManRam has taken the reps in OTA's and was doing really well late in the year.

                Hurts our depth the most since Manny was the backup C/G.

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                • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                  The comparison of Manny and Vallos is interesting. They were both drafted in 2007, Manny in the 4th round by Detroit and Vallos in the 7th by Seattle.

                  Manny was a C in HS. He made the line calls from the RG position at Texas Tech. He started twelve games at LG for Detroit in 2009, and was released in Oct. 2010. He was signed by the Broncos in Jan. 2011. Last year he started eleven games at RG next to Walton, and then Koppen who apparently is working with Manny now. If he starts this year, he will be next to Louis Vasquez, a friend from TT.

                  Steve Vallos played RT at Wake Forest. NFLDraftScout's profile described him as a Tackle trapped in a Guard's body. The Seahawks converted him to C which is a common position change for OTs. Vallos started five games at C for Seattle in 2008 and three at G in 2009. He was with Cleveland in 2009/10 and didn't have any starts. He was with Jacksonville and Philly last year and had one start at G for the Jags.

                  Vallos will compete for the starting C spot, but based on the info I was able to dig up, I think Manny will start and do a good job. A bit of trivia which might be of interest is that Manny benched 550 and squatted 785 while at TT. At the Combine he had 40 bench reps. One wonders if he still retains that strength.
                  I agree Ramirez is most likely going to be the starter but I think they would have to give Vallos a look just to see what he can do.
                  sigpic

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                  • Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
                    Yeah, clearly the competition for Center will be wide open. You may be right about Vallos being the guy. I still can't help but think it might be a good idea for the Broncos to trade for a "real" Center. One guy that's mentioned is Phil Costa, now that the Cowboy's have Frederick. The Cowboys also have Ryan Cook who has extensive experience at Minnesota who could back-up for Frederick. And another young, inexperienced NFC guy that I wouldn't mind having, if available, is the Falcons Joe Hawley.

                    If the Broncos are going to make any moves, other than what they did with Vallos, it will have to be soon.
                    I suspect that some will be cut maybe because the new has a younger model..

                    Remember that Koppen came in mid season and did well..

                    I suspect that those in Dove valley are doing an heck of a lot less hand wringing than fans here are..
                    Last edited by Garfield; 07-30-2013, 10:03 PM.

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                    • Originally posted by Garfield View Post
                      I suspect that some will be cut maybe because the new has a younger model..

                      Remember that Koppen came in mid season and did well..

                      I suspect that those in Dove valley are doing an heck of a lot less hand wringing than fans here are..
                      You got that part right. When preseason practice begins, life ends except for football, especially for coaches. There is no time for hand wringing.
                      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                      • Originally posted by Matymaddog View Post
                        please god no to Saturday or Amano. Both of those players were absolutely liabilities for their teams last year
                        looks like I was right about Eugene Amano:

                        Ryan Lilja was not the only retired center that the Denver Broncos attempted to coax out of retirement this week.

                        Formerly of the Denver Post, Jeff Legwold now works for ESPN and has gone live with a pretty interesting tidbit as one of his first articles for ESPN.com. Legwold states in a larger piece about the Denver Broncos woes at center, that the team approached not just Ryan Lilja about coming out of retirement, but Jeff Saturday and Eugene Amano as well.

                        Saturday as you may know is currently a behind the desk analyst on ESPN and Amano last played in 2011 for the Tennessee Titans. Neither Saturday, Amano or Lilja have participated in any sort of offseason training program. So it is a safe assumption that none of them are in peak physical condition.

                        Legwold goes on to point out that the mere signing of Lilja and recent signing Steve Vallos have pushed down second year center Philip Blake on the depth chart.

                        I am not going to question the legitimacy of that report, but I will say that Lilja hasn't even suited up yet and Vallos has been in camp for two days and yet to intensely participate.

                        I broke down the situation at the center position earlier this week, but I want to point out that the addition of Lilja, along with news that the Broncos were attempting to cast an even wider net shows that the team is not happy with what they have at center.

                        The position appears to be wide open.
                        sigpic

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                        • Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                          You got that part right. When preseason practice begins, life ends except for football, especially for coaches. There is no time for hand wringing.
                          you misunderstood ..

                          I know that coaches have a 99% surety going into TC who the first 48 maybe 50 players are..the only thing that changes that are injuries and a couple of surprises here or there.. TC is only for tuning up the newbies (rookies) and who makes the other few spots and PS..

                          They only folks doing hand wringing are some insecure fans..Most of us that KNOW we have zero influence on the decisions have no need to worry about it..

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                          • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                            looks like I was right about Eugene Amano:

                            Ryan Lilja was not the only retired center that the Denver Broncos attempted to coax out of retirement this week.

                            Formerly of the Denver Post, Jeff Legwold now works for ESPN and has gone live with a pretty interesting tidbit as one of his first articles for ESPN.com. Legwold states in a larger piece about the Denver Broncos woes at center, that the team approached not just Ryan Lilja about coming out of retirement, but Jeff Saturday and Eugene Amano as well.

                            Saturday as you may know is currently a behind the desk analyst on ESPN and Amano last played in 2011 for the Tennessee Titans. Neither Saturday, Amano or Lilja have participated in any sort of offseason training program. So it is a safe assumption that none of them are in peak physical condition.

                            Legwold goes on to point out that the mere signing of Lilja and recent signing Steve Vallos have pushed down second year center Philip Blake on the depth chart.

                            I am not going to question the legitimacy of that report, but I will say that Lilja hasn't even suited up yet and Vallos has been in camp for two days and yet to intensely participate.

                            I broke down the situation at the center position earlier this week, but I want to point out that the addition of Lilja, along with news that the Broncos were attempting to cast an even wider net shows that the team is not happy with what they have at center.

                            The position appears to be wide open.

                            only the niave would think that the only two players they signed where the only players they have contacted..

                            also would be dumb to think they would do any or all of it in public..

                            legwold is barely a step above bill burger in the reporting food chain..

                            He throws a bunch of stuff up on the wall to see what sticks,

                            AFTERALL he is in the business of selling papers or internet hits for his paper.. in other words he is in the business of churning fans..

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