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Cris Carter's Top 10 WRs list

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  • Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
    Honestly, I hear more about A.J. Green than Julio. If Julio was constantly talked about as being the best in the league, I would say he's overrated. If people talked about him in the same sentence as Cal Johnson, I would say he's overrated. I hate that I keep having to make what seems like negative comments about DT, but DT's numbers were better than A.J.Greens last year, but I don't see people putting DT above A.J. I don't see people calling A.J. overrated either.
    A big reason for that is AJ is the lone star in Cincinnati. Julio plays with Roddy White and Tony Gonzalez where the wealth is spread around.
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    • Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
      Honestly, I hear more about A.J. Green than Julio. If Julio was constantly talked about as being the best in the league, I would say he's overrated. If people talked about him in the same sentence as Cal Johnson, I would say he's overrated. I hate that I keep having to make what seems like negative comments about DT, but DT's numbers were better than A.J.Greens last year, but I don't see people putting DT above A.J. I don't see people calling A.J. overrated either.
      Because AJ Green faced double and triple teams all year. All year long this kid had half the field covering him like CJ does. Just as Julio had Roddy and Gonzalez, two pro bowlers helping draw coverage away from him, DT had a productive Decker to draw some away from him. It's a wash with the TE's. Then you look at the QB's. Matt Ryan, Peyton Manning and an overrated Andy Dalton. All three of these recievers will have a bit more of a level playing field with the acquisition of Welker in Denver and the development of Gresham, Sanu and acquition of Eifert but you still can't say that the Greens supporting cast sniffs Julio's or DT's.
      Last edited by Matymaddog; 08-02-2013, 09:02 AM.

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      • Regards to Julio and DT.

        That's tough, I'd give slight edge to Julio but DT hasn't hit his ceiling yet.....

        I'd rank Thomas just outside the Top 5, another monster year and he's top 5 IMO.

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        • Originally posted by SBboundBRONCOS View Post
          absolutely agree, but i dont think most people paint him as the CLEAR number 2 behind AJ.

          He is every bit as talented as DT and with a years less of experience. Its a close race and people will pick who they think at that point. DT has been talked about a LOT but Broncos fans just focus on the fact that they talk about all other teams combined more than the broncos, thinking it 1 against 1 when its essentially 1 vs 31. Its just orange colored glasses and then thinking its media bias, its not .... simple as that.

          And people keep wanting to compare a #2 WR to a #1 WR. Its not the same. When starting a team and you could pick any WR in the league i think hes def Top 10. Roddy is a very good player, but i dont think he has a lot of time left, they are going to start phasing him out and making Julio the number 1
          I really hope you are exaggerating to try and make your point because I can about guarantee you Julio Jones is talked about more than D. Thomas and it is not even close. Heck NFL Network when covering the Falcons this past week had a whole segment of just Julio Jones. Like I said he is not even the best receiver on his team but he is being treated that way. Now I do think Julio on many teams in the league would be a number 1 but at this time he is not that on his own team. I like Julio and think he is a top 10 receiver. I just think at this time he gets way more media attention than he ever should. I don't know what the draw to this kid is as he doesn't really have that crazy diva personality (surprised Roddy White doesn't get more attention because he does have that personality) that many receivers do.

          Yes I understand that us as Bronco fans probably look at our own players with a little more favor than other team's players but this is one of those situations where there are numbers to back up D. Thomas being picked over Julio and there is reason to believe that he in the end has the higher ceiling. Julio came in more polished as a receiver and has had the luxury of being surrounded by some major talent that takes a lot of pressure off of him. I'm not saying our receiving core is any kind of slacker but most would agree that having Roddy White and Gonzo definitely makes life a little easier down in Atlanta.

          I guess really this whole argument of who is better is like arguing which is better of a Porsche and a Ferrari. Both are very good and any team should be happy to have either.

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          • It's not crazy to put Thomas over Julio.

            Basing it off last year, you absolutely do. Going forward, time will tell.

            Not having Julio in the top 10 though is another story.

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            • I guess I just dont see it.....
              DT had more yards, more receptions, more 1st downs, more plays of 20+, better YPG average, better YPC average, more YAC, and equal TDS.
              Honestly I dont see how anybody ranks Julio Jones above DT. There is not one thing either guy does significantly better to make one a clear favorite, but as of right now...today....DT most recently has had better production. In the future Julio Jones may overtake him, but it hasnt happened in reality, only in perception.

              Hes not overrated by being labeled a top 10 guy, but he gets the benefit of what people think he will turn into more so than any other WR mentioned.
              Last edited by atwaterandstir; 08-02-2013, 09:42 AM.

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              • I think things will be a bit more clear about who's winning the race between DT and Julio this year. You will have Welker, Decker and hopefully the emergence of JT vs Gonzalez, Roddy and Steven Jackson who is always a factor in catching the ball

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                • Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
                  Regards to Julio and DT.

                  That's tough, I'd give slight edge to Julio but DT hasn't hit his ceiling yet.....

                  I'd rank Thomas just outside the Top 5, another monster year and he's top 5 IMO.
                  neither has Julio Jones.
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                  • Originally posted by Matymaddog View Post
                    Not really. They think he's better than him and there are statistics and logic to support that, which I have been posting. However those have all been ignored. If they are putting other receivers over DT how are they homers? Julio is the only player that if not included makes them homers? There are arguments on all sides for a ton of receivers to be included. People are saying he is slightly overrated because he is considered to be in the highest echelon of receivers. I don't see anyone saying DT is. I see people saying DT is in Julio's class a long with a bunch of other WR's but that they consider him better. That doesn't mean they are putting him in the same tier as Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, and Megatron.

                    Julio is a #2 WR on his own team because Roddy White is better than him currently. The reason he is slightly overrated is because people want to anoint him the best receiver on that team from last year despite him not having as good of a year...because he wasn't as clutch and wasn't the #1. However, Julio Jones would be the #1 on a ton of teams. He's just not on his own team...yet
                    Julio is overrated partly becuase he's not even the #1 on his own team???? I promise you opposing teams are worrying way more about Julio than Roddy White. How about this, Wes Welker was never the #1 in New England but he was clearly the best WR they had. Technically he was the #3 WR. Whether he's the X, Y, or Z doesn't really matter. Again, the so called experts don't always get it right, but something should be said by all them ranking WR's similar to Chris Carters (minus Andre J.)

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                    • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
                      I guess I just dont see it.....
                      DT had more yards, more receptions, more 1st downs, more plays of 20+, better YPG average, better YPC average, more YAC, and equal TDS.
                      Honestly I dont see how anybody ranks Julio Jones above DT. There is not one thing either guy does significantly better to make one a clear favorite, but as of right now...today....DT most recently has had better production. In the future Julio Jones may overtake him, but it hasnt happened in reality, only in perception.

                      Hes not overrated by being labeled a top 10 guy, but he gets the benefit of what people think he will turn into more so than any other WR mentioned.
                      sure when you look at it in simple stats but when you really get down to it you once again are splitting hairs.

                      he avg .1 yard more per catch, only 1 more catch per game, same amount of TDs on less receptions, 1st downs dont really matter as a WR stat either. statistically they are just about the same ... all that as the #2/#3 option on the team

                      if you really think that is "better" production i think thats ridiculous. Like i said stats change every year, does that mean if someone has SLIGHTLY (nearly insignificantly) better stats than Calvin for one year, does that make him a better WR than Calvin? i dont think so and i dont think most reasonable fans would think so.
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                      • Originally posted by SBboundBRONCOS View Post
                        sure when you look at it in simple stats but when you really get down to it you once again are splitting hairs.

                        he avg .1 yard more per catch, only 1 more catch per game, same amount of TDs on less receptions, 1st downs dont really matter as a WR stat either. statistically they are just about the same ... all that as the #2/#3 option on the team

                        if you really think that is "better" production i think thats ridiculous. Like i said stats change every year, does that mean if someone has SLIGHTLY (nearly insignificantly) better stats than Calvin for one year, does that make him a better WR than Calvin? i dont think so and i dont think most reasonable fans would think so.
                        So what makes Julio better exactly? Has anyone addressed this with a logical argument. It just seems like people go off what every analyst says and calls it good.
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                        • Originally posted by JW7 View Post
                          So what makes Julio better exactly? Has anyone addressed this with a logical argument. It just seems like people go off what every analyst says and calls it good.
                          Debating who is better between DT and JJ is kind of pointless. Both are very similar players with similar stats and play on teams that have very good supporting casts that throw the ball a lot. I would call it a tie and be done with it.
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                          • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                            Debating who is better between DT and JJ is kind of pointless. Both are very similar players with similar stats and play on teams that have very good supporting casts that throw the ball a lot. I would call it a tie and be done with it.
                            I agree. It just bothered me that I was called a homer because I think DT is slightly better.
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                            • Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
                              Julio is overrated partly becuase he's not even the #1 on his own team???? I promise you opposing teams are worrying way more about Julio than Roddy White. How about this, Wes Welker was never the #1 in New England but he was clearly the best WR they had. Technically he was the #3 WR. Whether he's the X, Y, or Z doesn't really matter. Again, the so called experts don't always get it right, but something should be said by all them ranking WR's similar to Chris Carters (minus Andre J.)
                              Ummm Welker was most definitely the #1 receiver on NE. That's absolutely silly. Has nothing to do with being and X, Y, or Z. Cruz is the #1 on NYG. Amendola was the #1 in St Louis. The #1 is the guy you go to in clutch moments. He gets the most targets. I posted PFF rankings and they had JJ at #12 and DT #7. WR rankings are a vantage point thing. It's absolutely absurd for Carter to leave Andre off that list
                              Last edited by Matymaddog; 08-02-2013, 10:40 AM.

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                              • Originally posted by SBboundBRONCOS View Post
                                sure when you look at it in simple stats but when you really get down to it you once again are splitting hairs.

                                he avg .1 yard more per catch, only 1 more catch per game, same amount of TDs on less receptions, 1st downs dont really matter as a WR stat either. statistically they are just about the same ... all that as the #2/#3 option on the team

                                if you really think that is "better" production i think thats ridiculous. Like i said stats change every year, does that mean if someone has SLIGHTLY (nearly insignificantly) better stats than Calvin for one year, does that make him a better WR than Calvin? i dont think so and i dont think most reasonable fans would think so.
                                OK then what is it that Jones does that makes him the "consensus pick" better than DT? If stats dont back up your theory what is it in real life football...play to play?
                                Jones biggest strength is his abilty to get seperation and make the big play, yet DT nearly doubled him in big plays (NFL uses 20+ as their threshold) 29 to 17. Thomas is one of the best in the league after the catch and so is Jones, so where is it exactly that Jones gets the nod? Better hands? Better routes? Speed? Blocking? Strength? Im curious....

                                And if you think Eric Decker requires the top coverage guy on him more often than Roddy White requires on him, then your crazy. On excellent offensive teams with many good WRs you often see a huge increase in production with teams #2 guy. Last year is a perfect example where Julio Jones, Lance Moore, and Eric Decker all put in great seasons because of what Roddy White, Marques Colston and DT were capable across from them.

                                Its not splitting hairs, its production,...... and until Julio Jones does something to widen the gap, you are not going to convince me that hes a better just by what you expect him to do in the future.

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