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Cris Carter's Top 10 WRs list

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  • Originally posted by JW7 View Post
    I agree. It just bothered me that I was called a homer because I think DT is slightly better.


    been there....
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    • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
      Debating who is better between DT and JJ is kind of pointless. Both are very similar players with similar stats and play on teams that have very good supporting casts that throw the ball a lot. I would call it a tie and be done with it.
      this is why I avoid doing list. I prefer tiers because so many positions have a nice group where they are different in weaknesses and strengths which would come down to scheme.

      To me list lead to arguing moving players that i personally say are to similar to even bother arguing. To me dez dt and julio are all going to be in the same tier. It's just like picking the goat at any position. To little difference to realistically decide. Just call them one of the greatest and moveon LOL.




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      • Originally posted by B Real 15 View Post
        I agree...............but for me and I know that this won't be for everybody, I think the top wideouts can play slot, X or Z. I am not sure that alot of those slots are physical enough to step outside and play out there. That is why I can never put Wes Welker in the top 10 because I think he would struggle on the outside and other guys as well. The top tier guys can go in there and be productive consistently as well. I agree their needs to be separate top 10 lists for outside and inside receivers although I believe that the outside guys are the better receivers.
        But playing receiver isn't just about being physical. That's one aspect of a single version of wide receiver. The slot guys are forced to take bigger hits, that's for sure, and often times have to improvise their routes. The slot guys are required to read defenses more than the sideline runners. Just because the outside guys are often giant freaks of nature doesn't mean they would handle the slot better than a Welker-type who can slip between the cracks.

        They serve different roles. There's no way the outside guys are just "better receivers" than slot guys. They get the attention because they get to be a part of the sexier plays.

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        • Originally posted by JW7 View Post
          So what makes Julio better exactly? Has anyone addressed this with a logical argument. It just seems like people go off what every analyst says and calls it good.
          I don't think you really can, they are both close to even. I would put Julio higher but only just slightly. I couldn't put an answer you would accept into words.
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          • Originally posted by JW7 View Post
            So what makes Julio better exactly? Has anyone addressed this with a logical argument. It just seems like people go off what every analyst says and calls it good.
            i never said he was better, this entire thread the others and myself are simply saying he is nowhere near over-rated and after calvin, aj, and fitz (maybe andre) there are VERY good group of young players who are basically interchangeable in spots 4-10.
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            • Originally posted by atwaterandstir View Post
              OK then what is it that Jones does that makes him the "consensus pick" better than DT? If stats dont back up your theory what is it in real life football...play to play?
              Jones biggest strength is his abilty to get seperation and make the big play, yet DT nearly doubled him in big plays (NFL uses 20+ as their threshold) 29 to 17. Thomas is one of the best in the league after the catch and so is Jones, so where is it exactly that Jones gets the nod? Better hands? Better routes? Speed? Blocking? Strength? Im curious....

              And if you think Eric Decker requires the top coverage guy on him more often than Roddy White requires on him, then your crazy. On excellent offensive teams with many good WRs you often see a huge increase in production with teams #2 guy. Last year is a perfect example where Julio Jones, Lance Moore, and Eric Decker all put in great seasons because of what Roddy White, Marques Colston and DT were capable across from them.

              Its not splitting hairs, its production,...... and until Julio Jones does something to widen the gap, you are not going to convince me that hes a better just by what you expect him to do in the future.
              I HAVE NEVER SAID HE WAS BETTER, HANDS DOWN! some people really need to learn how to read

              ive stated MULTIPLE times that they are a group of WRs that i believe are completely interchangeable. If you can show me a handful of legitimate opinions that show Julio as the "consensus" better WR then i may change my mind, but my guess is you wont
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              • Originally posted by Freyaka View Post
                I don't think you really can, they are both close to even. I would put Julio higher but only just slightly. I couldn't put an answer you would accept into words.
                The question was what makes Julio better. I share your opinion that's it's pretty close and I have Julio slightly higher. Let me again reitterate, I'm a HUGE DT fan. The growth he showed this past season was one of the biggest transformations I've seen a WR have ever. With Tebow he mainly ran fly's and posts routes. He ran a lot more last season and put up good statistics. However, I'll be honest, I was a bit disappointmented in the game vs the Ravens. I was hoping he was ready for the big stage and he struggled to get open in that last game and had about 3 drops that I remember. In Julio's last game, in the conference championship, he had 182 yards and two TDs. He showed he was ready for the big stage. Matt Ryan choked in the 2nd half and Julio's #'s dropped in the 2nd half, but even still, he had 11 catches for 182.

                In my opinion, Julio plays with a less superior QB that doesn't always put the ball in place where only he can get it. From what I've seen, Julio makes Matt Ryan look better than he is. That's not DT's fault Peyton is a legend, but Peyton's audibles and ball placement aides DT more than Julio. The reason I place Julio slightly above DT is I see him take balls away from DB's, take slants and dig routes for 30-40 yards. A lot of the big plays I see Julio make, he's often well defended, but he just makes a play and catches the ball naturally. DT sometimes has issues with drops and because it doesn't seem as natural. DT's runs a lot of fly's and posts, which I'm not saying is bad, he's just usually put in a great spot by Peyton. I'd say Julio runs more routes, has slightly better hands, and is slightly faster.

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                • Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
                  The question was what makes Julio better. I share your opinion that's it's pretty close and I have Julio slightly higher. Let me again reitterate, I'm a HUGE DT fan. The growth he showed this past season was one of the biggest transformations I've seen a WR have ever. With Tebow he mainly ran fly's and posts routes. He ran a lot more last season and put up good statistics. However, I'll be honest, I was a bit disappointmented in the game vs the Ravens. I was hoping he was ready for the big stage and he struggled to get open in that last game and had about 3 drops that I remember. In Julio's last game, in the conference championship, he had 182 yards and two TDs. He showed he was ready for the big stage. Matt Ryan choked in the 2nd half and Julio's #'s dropped in the 2nd half, but even still, he had 11 catches for 182.

                  In my opinion, Julio plays with a less superior QB that doesn't always put the ball in place where only he can get it. From what I've seen, Julio makes Matt Ryan look better than he is. That's not DT's fault Peyton is a legend, but Peyton's audibles and ball placement aides DT more than Julio. The reason I place Julio slightly above DT is I see him take balls away from DB's, take slants and dig routes for 30-40 yards. A lot of the big plays I see Julio make, he's often well defended, but he just makes a play and catches the ball naturally. DT sometimes has issues with drops and because it doesn't seem as natural. DT's runs a lot of fly's and posts, which I'm not saying is bad, he's just usually put in a great spot by Peyton. I'd say Julio runs more routes, has slightly better hands, and is slightly faster.
                  yea, Julio Jones makes one of the best QB's in the NFL look better than he is. A guy who threw only 4 less touchdowns and 5 less interceptions the year before Julio entered the league than he did last year. Matt Ryan has gotten better every single year. You implied it was Julio who made Matt Ryan. Not Roddy, not Gonzalez, not proven commodities but a second year player.

                  Julio Jones had some of the worst hands in 2011 and he did improve in 2012 but he still dropped some very catch-able balls as did DT.

                  DT had 29 20+ yard plays while Julio had 17. DT had 538 yards after catch and Julio had 346.

                  DT has also proved to be more clutch on 3rd down.

                  The point about the playoff game is valid. JJ did show up in that game. We know just how much DT can step up in a playoff game though. Let's not pretend he didn't win that game at Pittsburgh for us.

                  Does anyone factor blocking into the equation? I definitely do.
                  Last edited by Matymaddog; 08-02-2013, 12:32 PM.

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                  • I never said Julio made Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan is good QB, not great, but good. If you've seen many Falcons games, you'll see and hear announcers say Julio snatched the ball away from the DB and made Matty Ice look good. Neither of us is going to convince the other at this point, but like I've repeated, every media source I've seen has Julio above DT. I don't think that's a coincidence.

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                    • Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
                      I never said Julio made Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan is good QB, not great, but good. If you've seen many Falcons games, you'll see and hear announcers say Julio snatched the ball away from the DB and made Matty Ice look good. Neither of us is going to convince the other at this point, but like I've repeated, every media source I've seen has Julio above DT. I don't think that's a coincidence.
                      PFF doesn't.

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                      • Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
                        I never said Julio made Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan is good QB, not great, but good. If you've seen many Falcons games, you'll see and hear announcers say Julio snatched the ball away from the DB and made Matty Ice look good. Neither of us is going to convince the other at this point, but like I've repeated, every media source I've seen has Julio above DT. I don't think that's a coincidence.
                        It's a short timing based offense, defenses know this. Julio does get a S over the top but teams still come up and play physical with him. If Julio ran better routes he would get more separation and wouldn't have to snatch the ball away from the DB. Matt Ryan does the same thing with White and Gonzalez, he's great at completing passes in tight coverage. You don't notice it as much with White and Gonzalez because they're superior route runners and at getting off the LoS.

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                        • Originally posted by Matymaddog View Post
                          PFF doesn't.
                          Please don't tell me you're talking about the Page of Fame.....which goes off of the the best season the past 5 years......Brandon Lloyd is on that list

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                          • Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
                            Please don't tell me you're talking about the Page of Fame.....which goes off of the the best season the past 5 years......Brandon Lloyd is on that list
                            Page of Fame? No Pro Football Focus. It was off their evaluations from 2012

                            He's ranked #12 on it

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                            • Originally posted by Matymaddog View Post
                              Page of Fame? No Pro Football Focus. It was off their evaluations from 2012

                              He's ranked #12 on it
                              Can you find 1 more source please. I couldn't find the list of WR, but in their top 101 players, Von is #4, a guard for the Eagles is 6 and Peyton is #7, and Aaron Rodgers is #11. I'm sorry, I can't take that site seriously.

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                              • Originally posted by champ&dreallday View Post
                                Can you find 1 more source please. I couldn't find the list of WR, but in their top 101 players, Von is #4, a guard for the Eagles is 6 and Peyton is #7, and Aaron Rodgers is #11. I'm sorry, I can't take that site seriously.
                                But you take a top ten WR list without Andre Johnson seriously? So you won't take von miller being the 4th best player in the league or aaron Rodgers 4 spots behind manning? I'm sorry I just don't understand. Evan Mathis had a absolutely fantastic year. Not sure if I'd rank him 6 overall but he was one of the best guards in the NFL last year. I don't think they weight it as to how highly valued their respective position is but how well they appeared to do their job. I don't rely on PFF for anything but I can deny they clearly analyze the tape. Dwight freeney was ranked over Cameron wake on the nfl players top 100. He got the respect he deserved on their list
                                Last edited by Matymaddog; 08-02-2013, 01:37 PM.

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