Cris Carter's Top 10 WRs list

[Matymaddog]

are you really going to take it that literally?

These are his (Carters) favorite WRs heading into the season ... i dont see how most people with moderate reading comprehension skill got this was a list of the "best" based on post production.

hell its not even a list of who will have the best year, just his favorite WRs. im done with this silly argument. i think 95% of actual football fans will say Julio is Top 10, and just where at in the top is debatable

Never said he wasn't. Said multiple times I think there's a top 3 and the rest can have pretty good arguments made for them. It's all a matter of preference. I was simply outlining why some people believe DT should be above him and how that does not make them homers.

[SBboundBRONCOS]

Umm I read it. It said 10 best receivers heading into the year. Not saying the 10 recievers that will have the best year. If it was just the future then why is Steve smith on it?

are you really going to take it that literally?

These are his (Carters) favorite WRs heading into the season ... i dont see how most people with moderate reading comprehension skill got this was a list of the "best" based on post production.

hell its not even a list of who will have the best year, just his favorite WRs. im done with this silly argument. i think 95% of actual football fans will say Julio is Top 10, and just where at in the top is debatable

[Matymaddog]

did any of you people even read the article? or (what i assume) did you you just skip down to the ratings and start whining about them.

it CLEARLY states that it is expectations for THIS season .... hence FUTURE.. i dont understand yall

Umm I read it. It said 10 best receivers heading into the year. Not saying the 10 recievers that will have the best year. If it was just the future then why is Steve smith on it?

[SBboundBRONCOS]

So admittedly your basing your ranking off what you feel he will do in the future, not what he has done as of today.....that my friend is overrating a player.

Last season he had year comparable to Eric Decker, Marques Colston, Victor Cruz, and Michael Crabtree. All guys who aren't in many peoples "top 10".

did any of you people even read the article? or (what i assume) did you you just skip down to the ratings and start whining about them.

it CLEARLY states that it is expectations for THIS season .... hence FUTURE.. i dont understand yall

[beastlyskronk]

I totally agree with this and have been trying to say all of this all along. People are quick to put DT ahead of him but don't want to look at the numbers. All they are looking at is DT's one year and not looking at the entire body of work. Julio has outperformed him in less time yet DT is better? I understand being a fan but lets be realistic.

Before Julio's 4 game explosion his rookie year he only had 34 catches, 566 yards, and 2 TDs. Jones has only been putting up good numbers for 20 or so games. The only reason Jones has more career TDs is because he's been a starter his whole career. DT really only had 1 game his rookie year in which he was heavily involved in the offense. His 2nd year was coming off a rupture achilles which many players don't come back from. Once he got healthy he started tearing it up, but TDs are hard to come by in an offense that runs it 50-60 times a game especially when you get most of your TDs in the redzone. Compare the last 20 games for both of them, Jones has more TDs but that's it.

Edit: They played 6 of the same teams last year since our divisions played each other. DT ripped through Julio's division as well as our own division. Julio struggled in his division and wasn't as good as DT was against our division.

[JW7]

So because DT was injured is Julio's fault? Injuries happen in football. I'll give you the quarterback situation but factor in that Julio plays with better weapons and still puts up those kinds of numbers.

Where did I say that? I'm not saying anyone is at fault. Both are great receivers. I happen to think DT is slightly better. In your eyes i'm a homer but I have yet to see any numbers or reasoning that proves your point.

[Chillez]

Oh and Percy Harvin? C'mon man! Barely played half the season.

And now Harvin is likely out for rest of the season.

[Matymaddog]

So admittedly your basing your ranking off what you feel he will do in the future, not what he has done as of today.....that my friend is overrating a player.

Last season he had year comparable to Eric Decker, Marques Colston, Victor Cruz, and Michael Crabtree. All guys who aren't in many peoples "top 10".

Hit the nail on the head

[Matymaddog]

So because DT was injured is Julio's fault? Injuries happen in football. I'll give you the quarterback situation but factor in that Julio plays with better weapons and still puts up those kinds of numbers.

Who said anything was Julio's fault? I'm faulting you for looking at the big picture with such a simplistic view. That's like saying "Well Calvin only had 25 catches 2 years ago and 90 last year but Julio had 150 the last two years so Julio > Calvin" but Calvin was actually hurt the year before. The logic doesn't fit.

or "Larry Fitz < Julio because it's not Julio's fault that Larry had nobodies throwing to him" Wait...what? Again, the logic doesn't fit. You can't have that narrow of a view of it.

[Matymaddog]

We both know that he isn't a good passer and I never said you said anything about Tebow but I have read that DT thrived with Tebow in the last 6 weeks meaning that Tebow at that point did something right. I all along have said that DT wasn't a top 10 receiver but after seeing Cris Carter say what he said, I thought about it more and decided that I liked where he ranked him and that it was a good spot. I was ok with all of the guys ahead of him as well simply because they have a bigger body of work. I never said Julio had a big body of work but his overall body of work is better than what DT has done. Outperfoming him could simply be because there are other targets that are legitimate on that team.

Yes and one of those targets was Atlanta's #1 WR. He has also had 2 years to develop chemistry with Matt Ryan. I already posted stats that no one responded to:

Roddy White had 38 less targets in 2012 than 2011 and 8 less catches.
Tony Gonzalez had 8 more targets in 2012 than 2011 and 13 more catches
Matt Ryan had 49 more pass attempts in 2012 than 2011 and 75 more completions

So Roddy White, his competition saw 38 less targets than in 2011. Gonzalez saw 8 more targets. While Matt Ryan had 49 more pass attempts. Providing Julio Jones with 79 more opportunities for the ball than in 2011. Roddy had 8 less catches while Gonzalez had 13 more catches and Matt Ryan had 75 more completions providing Julio with 70 more completion opportunities. Julio Jones is a fantastic player, but so is DT. I have said before there are truly only 3 elite WR's currently and the rest are in the same tier where an argument could be made that any are above the other.

For comparison purposes let's compare targets for the main recieving options on each team.
Tony Gonzalez had a strangle hold on the TE position with 124 targets
Joel Dreessen and Tamme split time as our TE and had a combined 143 targets
If you want to call shenanigans on including both of them I would gladly include Michael Palmer who is the 2nd leading TE targeted in Atlanta with 7 targets combining for 131 targets. Clearly Denver has the edge here.

Eric Decker versus Roddy White
Roddy White had 143 targets and Eric Decker has 123 targets. The edge clearly goes to Roddy White. Now discounting Palmer because it's kind of ridiculous to include him it would be
Falcons: 143 + 124 = 267 Targets that went to his other big name recievering options
Broncos: 143 + 123 = 266 Targets that went to his other big name recieving options

Consider that Manning had 583 pass attempts vs Matt Ryans 615 pass attempts...does the argument that Julio was at such a disadvantage for targets because of Gonzalez and Roddy White really hold a lot of weight? Heck if we did include Palmer for kicks they would have only 6 less targets total despite their qb having 32 more passing attempts. Then consider how established Roddy and Tony are to take pressure off of Julio added with 2 years to build chemistry then maybe you can understand why some people are saying DT had a better year. Not even bringing his 3rd down stats into the equation. We all know 3rd down is where QB's and yes, WR's make their money. Matt Ryan had 5% more completions on third down than manning and had more attempts on 3rd down with manning and DT had double JJ's production on 3rd.

Finally let's add in big plays. DT had 29 20+ yard plays while Julio had 17. DT had 538 yards after catch and Julio had 346. Yet you don't understand why people are saying DT had a better year last year?

[atwaterandstir]

I totally agree with this and have been trying to say all of this all along. People are quick to put DT ahead of him but don't want to look at the numbers. All they are looking at is DT's one year and not looking at the entire body of work. Julio has outperformed him in less time yet DT is better? I understand being a fan but lets be realistic.

So admittedly your basing your ranking off what you feel he will do in the future, not what he has done as of today.....that my friend is overrating a player.

Last season he had year comparable to Eric Decker, Marques Colston, Victor Cruz, and Michael Crabtree. All guys who aren't in many peoples "top 10".

[B Real 15]

DT has only played one injury free season with a legit QB so I feel your statement is unfair. Based off of last year, how is Julio's ceiling higher than DT? I don't think you can provide a logical answer to that question.

So because DT was injured is Julio's fault? Injuries happen in football. I'll give you the quarterback situation but factor in that Julio plays with better weapons and still puts up those kinds of numbers.

[B Real 15]

He did not out perform him last year did he?
I had nothing to say about DT thriving with Tebow. Someone pointed out that he somehow still got it done. If you really want to sit here and act like Tebow is any sort of average passer, I have a bridge I want to sell you. That last sentence makes zero sense.

We both know that he isn't a good passer and I never said you said anything about Tebow but I have read that DT thrived with Tebow in the last 6 weeks meaning that Tebow at that point did something right. I all along have said that DT wasn't a top 10 receiver but after seeing Cris Carter say what he said, I thought about it more and decided that I liked where he ranked him and that it was a good spot. I was ok with all of the guys ahead of him as well simply because they have a bigger body of work. I never said Julio had a big body of work but his overall body of work is better than what DT has done. Outperfoming him could simply be because there are other targets that are legitimate on that team.

[JW7]

I totally agree with this and have been trying to say all of this all along. People are quick to put DT ahead of him but don't want to look at the numbers. All they are looking at is DT's one year and not looking at the entire body of work. Julio has outperformed him in less time yet DT is better? I understand being a fan but lets be realistic.

DT has only played one injury free season with a legit QB so I feel your statement is unfair. Based off of last year, how is Julio's ceiling higher than DT? I don't think you can provide a logical answer to that question.

[Matymaddog]

It's not Julio's fault that DT got hurt either. Regardless he has outperformed DT in both of their short careers. Earlier DT thrived with Tebow in the last 6 games but now Tebow is an issue...........can't be both. If you are basing off potential and production then this isn't even a conversation because Julio has outperformed DT with more balls going around then DT has to deal with.

He did not out perform him last year did he?
I had nothing to say about DT thriving with Tebow. Someone pointed out that he somehow still got it done. If you really want to sit here and act like Tebow is any sort of average passer, I have a bridge I want to sell you. That last sentence makes zero sense.