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  • #31
    Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
    Completely agree with this post. Do not understand why so many are discounting the SD and NE games as "Big Games", if our coaching staff can win those, they can win the "big games".
    Respectfully, I disagree.

    SD is a team on the rise, but they are not our equal YET.

    NE is every bit our equal. Lets look at NE's season though. Hernandez went to Jail. Gronk was hurt for our game, Talib went out hurt. Wilfork was lost for season. Amendola was hurt for much of the season. Vereen was hurt for much of the season. Welker went to us. Are we seriously going to pretend that we beat the real patriots?

    I know, injuries are a part of football. We were missing Vick, von, Clady, etc.....

    Fox is terrible. He needs to go.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Gsam View Post
      Respectfully, I disagree.

      SD is a team on the rise, but they are not our equal YET.

      NE is every bit our equal. Lets look at NE's season though. Hernandez went to Jail. Gronk was hurt for our game, Talib went out hurt. Wilfork was lost for season. Amendola was hurt for much of the season. Vereen was hurt for much of the season. Welker went to us. Are we seriously going to pretend that we beat the real patriots?

      I know, injuries are a part of football. We were missing Vick, von, Clady, etc.....

      Fox is terrible. He needs to go.
      Really? Injuries are a good excuse for the Pats but not for us?

      A lot of things need to go right to win a Super Bowl. We've seen dominate teams get beat by teams that were only average for the entire season. It takes talent, focus, preparation, but it also takes a lot of luck.

      You could say they were under prepared, you could say they didn't have the talent, you could say they choked. You could say a lot of things. But please don't act like you have all the answers. And please don't think that a loss like that only has one solution.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Gsam View Post
        Respectfully, I disagree.

        SD is a team on the rise, but they are not our equal YET.

        NE is every bit our equal. Lets look at NE's season though. Hernandez went to Jail. Gronk was hurt for our game, Talib went out hurt. Wilfork was lost for season. Amendola was hurt for much of the season. Vereen was hurt for much of the season. Welker went to us. Are we seriously going to pretend that we beat the real patriots?

        I know, injuries are a part of football. We were missing Vick, von, Clady, etc.....

        Fox is terrible. He needs to go.
        So the NE players that were hurt have more importance then our players? We weren't missing Wolfe, Harris and Moore? Half our defense was IR or dealt with injuries all year. Some fans just are not happy, SMH, fox and Elway have done something no coach in Denver history has ever done. 3 AFC west titles in 3 years with a Super Bowl birth. Plus Fox's coaching staff has been one of the best in developing our draft picks and building a strong roster.

        It's very easy to see who is wrong in this conversation bud.
        A healthy Kenneth Dixon is a top 5 NFL RB.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by bronx_2003 View Post
          We did win games that counted. SD and NE to get to the SB.

          I don't disagree with wanting more of a running game but I'm surprised at so many comments on here ripping at Gase and Fox.

          We still had the number one offense in the NFL.... better then any other teams so they must of been doing something right.

          I also hate it when people knock Fox for saying 'the season wasn't too shabby' ..... we had a really good season, only 2 teams out of 32 got to the SB and we endured the Fox health problems and numerous injuries along the way.

          We played very poorly in the SB, made too many mistakes and seemed under prepared. We came up against a team who played much better, executed and were much healthier.

          The SB was bad, and we need to make steps to improve next season.... like helping the running game....... but it was a hell of a season and Fox, PM and the other players deserve a ton of credit. Some fans have come off as a little spoiled and a little 'throw players under the bus' IMO
          In case the Fox and Gase part was pointed me to, I havnt and don't rip on them. I don't get all the hate either. Was I a fan of the signing when it happened? No, but Fox is who we needed after...shudders....McD. We have seen a playoff game every season under him. Hope a SB win is next.
          sigpic

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          • #35
            Originally posted by samparnell View Post
            If half the plays were run and the other half PAP, they all look like run to the D.
            I see that but I was specifically referencing the TD/Elway era where for a couple or few years we were a true run/PA team. The passing game complimented the running. For lack of a better term Elway became a complimentary piece to TD. Almost like what NE has turned to this year as they lost weapons.
            sigpic

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            • #36
              Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
              I see that but I was specifically referencing the TD/Elway era where for a couple or few years we were a true run/PA team. The passing game complimented the running. For lack of a better term Elway became a complimentary piece to TD. Almost like what NE has turned to this year as they lost weapons.
              Sure. It's the very basis of football: run the ball with blocking; stop the run with tackling.

              I've always been squeamish about pass heavy offenses because they stray from the basis = run the ball to set up the pass. Or, in my case, run the ball to force the D to adjust so you can run it somewhere else.

              Passing fanatics forget what running the ball does to a defense. It beats up on them. That's why O-Linemen love to run the ball. PAP from an effective rushing attack negates the pass rush. :2cents:
              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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              • #37
                Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
                In case the Fox and Gase part was pointed me to, I havnt and don't rip on them. I don't get all the hate either. Was I a fan of the signing when it happened? No, but Fox is who we needed after...shudders....McD. We have seen a playoff game every season under him. Hope a SB win is next.
                I do think we are much more likely to win a Super Bowl with Fox then McD.

                Also I think we are much more likely to win a Super Bowl with Fox and PM then any team we have seen in Denver since 1998.

                I also think right now we are on a path very similar to Dan Reeves who also lost a Super Bowl with two different teams.

                IMO the biggest problem with Fox and PM is a PM team goes against Fox's very nature. He is a conservative guy who does his best with great defenses. It is not in his nature to win the way PM has the ability to win. Fox is fighting his nature trying a run a PM lead team and he will never be able to do it at an elite level like how other coaches run their teams.

                Still this combo is better then anything we have had since 1998 imo
                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                  Sure. It's the very basis of football: run the ball with blocking; stop the run with tackling.

                  I've always been squeamish about pass heavy offenses because they stray from the basis = run the ball to set up the pass. Or, in my case, run the ball to force the D to adjust so you can run it somewhere else.

                  Passing fanatics forget what running the ball does to a defense. It beats up on them. That's why O-Linemen love to run the ball. PAP from an effective rushing attack negates the pass rush. :2cents:
                  Yup...you nailed it. If Manning can get away from the stats game - not saying he is soley driven by it - imagine how he would excel handing off the ball until the time was right to open up some passes. defenses would crying trying to decide which to play.

                  It's a rare opportunity for a team to be able to do this. We are not quite there as Ball isn't a name out there that scares anyone, yet.
                  sigpic

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                  • #39
                    My reaction to the SB was to find something to fix something. I have discovered the concept of "counterfactual thinking" It is a concept where you come in second, but you feel like you came in last.

                    We lost in the Super Bowl. You have to be in the Super Bowl, to lose in the Super Bowl. 30 teams were not in the SB.

                    We defeated many good teams along the way. We have won 3 consecutive division titles(one with a running team and TT).

                    The conversation surrounding the Broncos is much different than it was 4 years ago. It was not that long ago that we were beaten badly by the Raiders at home, and were caught cheating.

                    I am not keen on "fixing" anything now. The nature of football is attrition, injuries, and free agency changes the makeup of a team each year. You can always get better, but the 2013 Broncos will always be a part of history. Whenever a team is doing well offensively, it will be compared to this team
                    Waiting to hear from adoption agency

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by ERoyal248 View Post
                      Up to the players to play/execute, Fox cant control that.

                      That being said, i'd wait and see how it would play out before extending him.

                      Personally i'd like to see Gase as HC but thats another story.
                      Yes, the players need to execute, but the preparation needs to start at the top [head coach]. The team was thoroughly unprepared for the SB game and when they got behind, Fox had no idea how to adjust to Seattle's style of play. The laissez faire coaching style that Fox employs will have this team finishing with a 9-7 record this coming season and possibly out of the playoffs altogether.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Gsam View Post
                        Respectfully, I disagree.

                        SD is a team on the rise, but they are not our equal YET.

                        NE is every bit our equal. Lets look at NE's season though. Hernandez went to Jail. Gronk was hurt for our game, Talib went out hurt. Wilfork was lost for season. Amendola was hurt for much of the season. Vereen was hurt for much of the season. Welker went to us. Are we seriously going to pretend that we beat the real patriots?

                        I know, injuries are a part of football. We were missing Vick, von, Clady, etc.....

                        Fox is terrible. He needs to go.
                        Denver had just as many impact injuries: Champ was out most of the year, and not his old (re: young) self; Von, of course; Vickerson; Moore; Clady. Also, New England had all TC and pre-season to get used to playing without Hernandez, Gronk, and Welker. They brought in Amendola because they believed him to be a younger/fresher replacement for Wes. All we heard leading up to the season is how it won't matter who's out there, the Patriots will be the Patriots.

                        Denver spanked them. They beat the real Patriots - who made it to the AFC Championship Game, mind you, after DESTROYING the Colts the week before. A team doesn't only count as real if they are 100% healthy.

                        San Diego was also the team with all the momentum going into the playoffs, and beat Denver only a few weeks before. "Experts" kept picking them as the hottest, most complete team entering the post season.

                        Denver can, and did win big games. The only reason people say they can't, is because they lost the last one. That would have been the rhetoric no matter what, because everyone is building them (and especially Manning) up to knock them down. If he [and the Broncos] don't win the Super Bowl every year, it's going to be a "disappointment," "choke," or "proof he/they can't win the big games."

                        That's absurd.

                        Nobody thinks games he/they win count as big games, only the ones they lose. If the Patriots won the AFCCG, people would have said, "Look what happens when the Broncos play a REAL [email protected]@11!"

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by crash123go View Post
                          So the NE players that were hurt have more importance then our players? We weren't missing Wolfe, Harris and Moore? Half our defense was IR or dealt with injuries all year. Some fans just are not happy, SMH, fox and Elway have done something no coach in Denver history has ever done. 3 AFC west titles in 3 years with a Super Bowl birth. Plus Fox's coaching staff has been one of the best in developing our draft picks and building a strong roster.

                          It's very easy to see who is wrong in this conversation bud.
                          Yes. NE lost far more impact players than Denver did.

                          Gronk is one of 3 guys in this league (Graham and hernandez being the other two) who were virtually uncoverable at TE. Gronk was destroying everyone. not having him is the single biggest loss to either team in the AFC CG. I know I know, I am going to get crucified by the Von Miller Zealots, but certain guys literally can change the way an entire team plays. Gronk is one of them.

                          Is Clady more important than Wilfork? Is Hernandez more Imporant than moore? Is gronk more important than miller? Some would say yes, some would say no. I have my opinion, you don't share it.

                          As for Fox "developing our talent" I just don't see that. Fox can't even coach a team that is fundamentally sound and I am supposed to believe he's responsible for the development of Trevathan, etc??? Not buying what you are selling.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by darryn16 View Post
                            Yes, the players need to execute, but the preparation needs to start at the top [head coach]. The team was thoroughly unprepared for the SB game and when they got behind, Fox had no idea how to adjust to Seattle's style of play. The laissez faire coaching style that Fox employs will have this team finishing with a 9-7 record this coming season and possibly out of the playoffs altogether.
                            ^^ Well said. I agree entirely ^^

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Gsam View Post
                              ^^ Well said. I agree entirely ^^
                              I also agree with the vast majority of that post, sans the 9-7 record. The cheque is in the mail when it comes to Manning leading his teams to 10 wins minimum.

                              A previous poster in this thread said that Peyton Manning/our offensive style goes against everything that John Fox stands for, and it should be noted that Fox has never coached an "offense-wins-games" team before Denver circa 2012-present...

                              John Fox realistically is not bringing anything to the table in terms of adding to the product we see on the field. Manning and Gase run the offense; Del Rio runs the defense. John Fox is just there.

                              The "steady hand" approach was great when we were coming off a 4-12 season and needed the consistency model, but adding Manning meant that style was out the window because in leaving the "steady hand/defense first" way of doing things, that indirectly meant that the games we are now winning, aren't being won Fox's way.

                              It's almost as if the offensive talent we have added since 2012 has made Fox's way of doing things a non factor to our success, which is kind of how I see it. We have surpassed John Fox's coaching strengths and he is just along for the ride.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                If Ray Horton wants to be a head coach, he is one guy I would consider for any team. Its a pity Bruce Arians never got a shot till last year and Mike Zimmer never got one till this year. Dick LeBeau, has he ever expressed interest in being a head coach?

                                But when it is all said and done, Jack Del Rio might take over for John Fox and someone else might call the plays on D if John Fox is let go at some point in time. That seems like the most logical thing the Broncos organization would do. Adam Gase, he will get to make his mark again and not sure if his age will be factored against him being a head coach. That did not however prevent Josh McDaniels from getting a job, I just think the number of teams needing a head coach will be smaller next year, so Gase might stick around for a couple more years, I feel.

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