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  • Manning obviously would much rather pass the ball. But even if he wanted to run the ball more, I don't know if you guys would see the effectiveness you want to see. Manning is so slow at his age and probably can't handoff like he could when he was young. The really agile and mobile qb's get the ball to their back smoothly and quickly and this helps a RB have more momentum and time to see things develop.

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    • Originally posted by Jim Mora View Post
      Manning obviously would much rather pass the ball. But even if he wanted to run the ball more, I don't know if you guys would see the effectiveness you want to see. Manning is so slow at his age and probably can't handoff like he could when he was young. The really agile and mobile qb's get the ball to their back smoothly and quickly and this helps a RB have more momentum and time to see things develop.
      steps and meshpoint
      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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      • Even if the running game is not effective, you still have to run the ball. We see other teams running 20 times for 40 yards and it's really common. You can't throw away the running game if you don't get the yardage you're looking for. It's simple. Calling running plays makes the defense continue to defend the run, improving the quality of the passing game. If you don't run, the defense will adjust to stop a predictable offense that will just throw the ball.

        I do believe these issues with the OL have begun during practice. Manning demands too much detail in the passing game and it takes time away from practicing the running plays. I won't be surprised if the running game was not emphasised during camp. To make things worse, the OL has changed so much that only Ryan Clady is playing at his original position. The serviceable RT became an awful LG, the All-Pro RG became a question mark at RT, the center is playing RG... It's a mess.
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        • Originally posted by Jim Mora View Post
          Manning obviously would much rather pass the ball. But even if he wanted to run the ball more, I don't know if you guys would see the effectiveness you want to see. Manning is so slow at his age and probably can't handoff like he could when he was young. The really agile and mobile qb's get the ball to their back smoothly and quickly and this helps a RB have more momentum and time to see things develop.
          There is some truth to this. All the draw plays and pitch plays to the RB are workarounds for Peyton not having the mobility to hand the ball to the RB and hit a quick play action like Brady does, the play develops a tad slower and that is all NFL grade Ds need to disrupt. I am sure Ds around the league are noticing it too. In the quick play action set up, the QB would have to stop his own momentum, re-set fast and put the weight of his body into the throw fast enough. Peyton is not as effective an arm thrower as much, so he needs to get the velocity and distance with his body rotation more than in years past when he could generate some velocity throwing off the back of his foot as well.

          Regarding the play calling being too pass happy, here it is, in Adam Gase's own words from

          http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/1...7/horse-tracks



          Offensive coordinator Adam Gase jumped on the accountability train late in the week too, admitting that running the ball more and calling a better game will give the team a better shot, particularly the line and its QB.


          The first thing I can do is run the ball more," Gase said about how he could help the O-line. "Last game probably was very telling in that aspect, of giving them more of a chance and allowing those guys to tee off a little bit instead of being on their heels so much. So I'd say that is probably the No. 1 thing."


          A close No. 2 would be better plays, and Gase acknowledged as much. "I can call some better plays to make sure we put ourselves in a third-and-manageable [distance]," Gase said, admitting that mixing up plays is not really his strength. "That is probably the hardest thing for me to make sure I'm mixing it up and constantly trying to keep the defensive coordinator guessing so he can't get a read on it."


          Orlando Franklin was recently interviewed on radio and he said that Peyton does not change Adam's plays as much. Maybe he needs to, based on this article, from what I am reading.

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          • Originally posted by chad72 View Post
            There is some truth to this. All the draw plays and pitch plays to the RB are workarounds for Peyton not having the mobility to hand the ball to the RB and hit a quick play action like Brady does, the play develops a tad slower and that is all NFL grade Ds need to disrupt. I am sure Ds around the league are noticing it too. In the quick play action set up, the QB would have to stop his own momentum, re-set fast and put the weight of his body into the throw fast enough. Peyton is not as effective an arm thrower as much, so he needs to get the velocity and distance with his body rotation more than in years past when he could generate some velocity throwing off the back of his foot as well.

            Regarding the play calling being too pass happy, here it is, in Adam Gase's own words from

            http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/1...7/horse-tracks



            Offensive coordinator Adam Gase jumped on the accountability train late in the week too, admitting that running the ball more and calling a better game will give the team a better shot, particularly the line and its QB.


            The first thing I can do is run the ball more," Gase said about how he could help the O-line. "Last game probably was very telling in that aspect, of giving them more of a chance and allowing those guys to tee off a little bit instead of being on their heels so much. So I'd say that is probably the No. 1 thing."


            A close No. 2 would be better plays, and Gase acknowledged as much. "I can call some better plays to make sure we put ourselves in a third-and-manageable [distance]," Gase said, admitting that mixing up plays is not really his strength. "That is probably the hardest thing for me to make sure I'm mixing it up and constantly trying to keep the defensive coordinator guessing so he can't get a read on it."


            Orlando Franklin was recently interviewed on radio and he said that Peyton does not change Adam's plays as much. Maybe he needs to, based on this article, from what I am reading.
            Anyone whose watched the games over the last 3 seasons could tell you he doesn't waiver from his gameplan and doesnt throw in much variety. At least he knows he needs to work on it, I guess.
            :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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            • Originally posted by chad72 View Post
              There is some truth to this. All the draw plays and pitch plays to the RB are workarounds for Peyton not having the mobility to hand the ball to the RB and hit a quick play action like Brady does, the play develops a tad slower and that is all NFL grade Ds need to disrupt. I am sure Ds around the league are noticing it too. In the quick play action set up, the QB would have to stop his own momentum, re-set fast and put the weight of his body into the throw fast enough. Peyton is not as effective an arm thrower as much, so he needs to get the velocity and distance with his body rotation more than in years past when he could generate some velocity throwing off the back of his foot as well.

              Regarding the play calling being too pass happy, here it is, in Adam Gase's own words from

              http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/1...7/horse-tracks



              Offensive coordinator Adam Gase jumped on the accountability train late in the week too, admitting that running the ball more and calling a better game will give the team a better shot, particularly the line and its QB.


              The first thing I can do is run the ball more," Gase said about how he could help the O-line. "Last game probably was very telling in that aspect, of giving them more of a chance and allowing those guys to tee off a little bit instead of being on their heels so much. So I'd say that is probably the No. 1 thing."


              A close No. 2 would be better plays, and Gase acknowledged as much. "I can call some better plays to make sure we put ourselves in a third-and-manageable [distance]," Gase said, admitting that mixing up plays is not really his strength. "That is probably the hardest thing for me to make sure I'm mixing it up and constantly trying to keep the defensive coordinator guessing so he can't get a read on it."


              Orlando Franklin was recently interviewed on radio and he said that Peyton does not change Adam's plays as much. Maybe he needs to, based on this article, from what I am reading.
              I also said this in another thread. But when Peyton was in Indy, I remember him saying he could run or pass out of any play that Tom Moore relayed to him. I think Manning has the authority do what he would like to do with each snap of the ball. I also don't think that Manning can really ever have a dominant running game for the reasons you and I stated. Even if Manning called more run plays, I don't think it necessarily gives you a better result because of that. Except for what Roddoliver said above. Running the ball more does keep the defense more honest.

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              • Originally posted by chad72 View Post

                Orlando Franklin was recently interviewed on radio and he said that Peyton does not change Adam's plays as much. Maybe he needs to, based on this article, from what I am reading.
                In a hurry up offense how would franklin KNOW what play was called into Mannings headset?

                Now if they huddle up then he would know but while they are at the LOS he would not have a clue.

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                • Maybe it's just me but the things Gase said in that article is really bad stuff. It's the equivalent of saying "I am not ready to be an offensive coordinator, but oh well, we have Peyton for that." So, what if Peyton is wrong too? We need some more offensive experience on the staff. I guess maybe we shouldn't have fired the experience to keep the idiot OC happy. Maybe let Knapp call the plays?
                  Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

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                  • Originally posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
                    Maybe it's just me but the things Gase said in that article is really bad stuff. It's the equivalent of saying "I am not ready to be an offensive
                    coordinator, but oh well, we have Peyton for that." So, what if Peyton is wrong too? We need some more offensive experience on the staff. I guess maybe we shouldn't have fired the experience to keep the idiot OC happy. Maybe let Knapp call the plays?
                    I found that very concerning as well. Quite scary if you ask me. Many of us have been ragging on Manning and it seems like it's Manning who might be saving Gase's butt in all actuality.

                    For an OC to say mixing plays up is not my strength, to say I need to learn to change plays so defenses don't know what is coming is freaking scary to me. Holy crap. And we let Gibbs go?
                    Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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                    • Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                      I found that very concerning as well. Quite scary if you ask me. Many of us have been ragging on Manning and it seems like it's Manning who might be saving Gase's butt in all actuality.

                      For an OC to say mixing plays up is not my strength, to say I need to learn to change plays so defenses don't know what is coming is freaking scary to me. Holy crap. And we let Gibbs go?
                      Or Gase is saving Manning's butt. When Peyton was in Indy, in an interview, I heard Peyton say that he chose to run or pass out of the play relayed to him by Tom Moore. And he based it on what the defense was giving him.

                      As I said above, I don't think you guys will be able to have a dominant running team. Partly do to Manning's lack of mobility issues.
                      Last edited by Jim Mora; 11-22-2014, 12:08 PM.

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                      • Originally posted by Jim Mora View Post
                        Or Gase is saving Manning's butt. When Peyton was in Indy, in an interview, I heard Peyton say that he chose to run or pass out of the play relayed to him by Tom Moore. And he based it on what the defense was giving him.

                        As I said above, I don't think you guys will be able to have a dominant running team. Partly do to Manning's lack of mobility issues.
                        Well I was referring to what Gase was saying about himself. He was the one who acknowledged that he (Gase) was not calling enough run plays to begin with and not referring to Manning checking out of run plays.

                        Additionally, it was Gase who admitted to a weakness in not calling different plays and calling the same plays over and over. He said he (Gase) needed to mix it up so defenses weren't always knowing what they were going to run. Gase said that is the hardest thing he needs to learn to do, call in different plays to keep defenses guessing.

                        These two areas are about the weaknesses of Gase and are not about Manning. Yes, we can also talk about Manning changing run plays to pass plays, but that is not what the article or what Gase was talking about. He was admitting his own flaws as an OC.
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                        • Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                          Well I was referring to what Gase was saying about himself. He was the one who acknowledged that he (Gase) was not calling enough run plays to begin with and not referring to Manning checking out of run plays.

                          Additionally, it was Gase who admitted to a weakness in not calling different plays and calling the same plays over and over. He said he (Gase) needed to mix it up so defenses weren't always knowing what they were going to run. Gase said that is the hardest thing he needs to learn to do, call in different plays to keep defenses guessing.

                          These two areas are about the weaknesses of Gase and are not about Manning. Yes, we can also talk about Manning changing run plays to pass plays, but that is not what the article or what Gase was talking about. He was admitting his own flaws as an OC.
                          I know. I'm just saying it may actually be Gase that is covering for Manning's butt. There are many plays and many throws that Manning is just not capable of making anymore. Gase's hands are probably tied a bit with playcalling. And I think it is likely that he is willingly being the fall guy. Peyton cannot do certain run plays, the run is not working, and Manning cannot make all the throws unless he has the working space to get his body momentum into the throw.

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                          • Originally posted by Jim Mora View Post
                            I know. I'm just saying it may actually be Gase that is covering for Manning's butt. There are many plays and many throws that Manning is just not capable of making anymore. Gase's hands are probably tied a bit with playcalling. And I think it is likely that he is willingly being the fall guy. Peyton cannot do certain run plays, the run is not working, and Manning cannot make all the throws unless he has the working space to get his body momentum into the throw.
                            I'm sorry but I just don't agree. Gase is not covering Manning's butt here. Gase is not being some fall guy here. Jeez. Gase is the inexperienced OC who has a limited playbook or uses limited playcalling because it's not HIS strength. Stop making it about Manning when for once we finally have a coach willing to take responsibility and acknowledge their own weakness or their own limitations. Gase is a young coach who has limited experience as an OC. He's learning too.

                            For Pete's sake we as fans have been crying for months now for our coaches to stand up and take responsibility and acknowledge that they need to do things differently to increase our success and when they finally do, you still want to make it about Manning.

                            How often does a coach admit that he himself has a weakness. You don't hear that often. I respect the hell out of that. So, let him take that responsibility. Let him hold himself accountable. God. Everything isn't always about Manning's limitations. Sometimes coaches need to grow too. Let him. And stop trying to make it about Peyton.
                            Adopted Bronco: DeMarcus Ware

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                            • Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
                              I'm sorry but I just don't agree. Gase is not covering Manning's butt here. Gase is not being some fall guy here. Jeez. Gase is the inexperienced OC who has a limited playbook or uses limited playcalling because it's not HIS strength. Stop making it about Manning when for once we finally have a coach willing to take responsibility and acknowledge their own weakness or their own limitations. Gase is a young coach who has limited experience as an OC. He's learning too.

                              For Pete's sake we as fans have been crying for months now for our coaches to stand up and take responsibility and acknowledge that they need to do things differently to increase our success and when they finally do, you still want to make it about Manning.

                              How often does a coach admit that he himself has a weakness. You don't hear that often. I respect the hell out of that. So, let him take that responsibility. Let him hold himself accountable. God. Everything isn't always about Manning's limitations. Sometimes coaches need to grow too. Let him. And stop trying to make it about Peyton.
                              No problem in disagreeing.

                              I do agree that it's admirable of Gase to openly state what he feels is his share of the blame.

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                              • Originally posted by JJBroncoFan View Post
                                Maybe it's just me but the things Gase said in that article is really bad stuff. It's the equivalent of saying "I am not ready to be an offensive coordinator, but oh well, we have Peyton for that." So, what if Peyton is wrong too? We need some more offensive experience on the staff. I guess maybe we shouldn't have fired the experience to keep the idiot OC happy. Maybe let Knapp call the plays?
                                I would like to see Studesville get a shot at OC.

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