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  • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
    Everybody who says no on Incognito, what would you all say about us signing Adrian Peterson, Greg Hardy, Ray Rice, Dez Bryant, Josh Gordon, Aldon Smith, or Percy Harvin if they were free agents right now?
    Adrian Peterson - child abuser (sorry but I have a bigger problem with children being harmed than a grown man being bullied)
    Greg Hardy - assaulted Girlfriend
    Ray Rice - assaulted fiancée
    Dez Bryant - assaulted mother
    Josh Gordon - Has a record of issues with substance abuse
    Percy Harvin - has record of being locker room distraction since high school
    Aldon Smith - DUI, ran into a tree near a school, illegal weapons, record of issues
    Honestly, I'd say no to all of them.
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    • I'm thinkin' pro wrestling. :thumb:
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      • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
        Everybody who says no on Incognito, what would you all say about us signing Adrian Peterson, Greg Hardy, Ray Rice, Dez Bryant, Josh Gordon, Aldon Smith, or Percy Harvin if they were free agents right now?
        Adrian Peterson - child abuser (sorry but I have a bigger problem with children being harmed than a grown man being bullied)
        Greg Hardy - assaulted Girlfriend
        Ray Rice - assaulted fiancée
        Dez Bryant - assaulted mother
        Josh Gordon - Has a record of issues with substance abuse
        Percy Harvin - has record of being locker room distraction since high school
        Aldon Smith - DUI, ran into a tree near a school, illegal weapons, record of issues
        Adrian Peterson-I agree, he's worse than Incognito. Since he never denied it, I would say he probably did it. Should be in jail, not playing.
        Greg Hardy-I believe that case is still only alleged, though if he did do all he was accused of, he should be in jail.
        Ray Rice-should have gone to jail, but at least he's payed with a suspension. I have a 'do the crime, do the time, get back to work' attitude about things, so if you've been punished I'm ok with you coming back. Incognito however, is a repeat offender unlike Rice. He's been given too many chances.
        Dez Bryant-he grabbed her wrist, likely not causing much harm, likely not intending to cause much harm. It may technically be assault, but there's a difference in that and say, hitting her in the face.
        Josh Gordon-He should probably clean up the weed, but weed doesn't hurt anyone. To tell the truth, if a player doesn't get caught with weed I don't have a problem with it, and it doesn't effect the team really.
        Percy Harvin-that's a good reason not to sign him, but Incognito seems WAY worse than Harvin with that. I get the rest of the guys, but Harvin, Gordon and Bryant hardly compare to Incognito IMO.
        Aldon Smith-I'm a Niners fan, I still say he should be in jail(or at least rehab). Yelling bomb threats at an air port, and DUI both should not be taken lightly.

        I guess though, the difference in a guy like Smith and Incognito is the malicious intent. Smith seems more so to do very stupid things in poor judgment without intending to hurt anyone, where as Incognito...he seems malicious.

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        • Originally posted by Larryh View Post
          It is a shame that you are not nearly as forgiving with other people on this thread who have a different opinion than you do about Incognito. If using the N word and other epithets are as acceptable as you claim they are then other peoples opinion must be just as acceptable. You cant have it both ways unfortunately.
          I guess I wasn't aware that someone's opinion is something that needs forgiveness? Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

          As far as the N word goes. Have you ever listened to any rap music? It's every other word in some of those songs. It's just a word, one of many that can be offensive or non-offensive depending upon the circumstances and content in which it is used. But some would have you believe people that say it or have said it should be burned at the stack for it. I think that is a bit over the top but that is just my opinion.

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          • Originally posted by JayJack View Post
            Yes, squeaky clean. Prior to the draft, Von didn't have any issues. He was great on and off the field and the Broncos selected Von to represent the Broncos as a NFLPA Rep during the lockout his rookie year.

            Not once did I say that Elway won't support you if you get in trouble as a Broncos, but he will not draft/sign you if you're not.
            Well he did draft Roby and he wasn't squeaky clean before he was drafted. And if being squeaky clean is a requirement for Elway, then how do you explain them working out Incognito? You think Elway didn't know about his history or perhaps wasn't aware he was working out for the Broncos? I know they haven't signed him but they did look at him, which leads me to believe the squeaky clean theory is bogus.

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            • Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
              I do actually agree with some of what you said here. The strip club meeting, nothing wrong with that. Most of the texts they sent to each other, I don't see anything wrong with that either. With the allegations, he is innocent until proven guilty and should be, I agree with that as well.

              However, I think your overlooking things here. I mean come on, your simply going to take Incognito's word for it that they were friends? Don't you think he's going to say what makes him look the best in the media? Come on now. From what I hear, it seems Incognito acted like his friend at times, but many times also acted very different. It seems like a typical tactic to keep someone 'on the hook' so to speak, it's like a 'good cop, bad cop' mechanism.

              As for the 'n' word, I do think it's pretty stupid to make a big deal over someone using it in the sense where it means something like 'homie'. If the word is used so often by one race in that sense, it seems dumb to make it a big deal for another race to use it, and living too much in the past. However, it seemed to be maliciously used by Incognito.

              In truth, I don't even think he's racist, I think he was more of saying whatever he could to harass Martin, and many black Dolphins players were likely in on it. Even so though, it went too far IMO.
              I wasn't just going on Incognito's word. Several of his teammates backed his story up. If you watch the video posted above, he claims to have some pretty bad texts on his phone that were from Martin as well. Whether he did or not, I don't know since I haven't actually seen them.

              But at the end of the day, I think you nailed it in that last paragraph. I don't think Incognito ever meant any harm to Martin and he simply took a little too far for Martin's comfort. But at some point Martin appeared to have been playing along and all I'm saying is that he should have simply told Incognito to knock it off and handled it internally with the team if need be, instead of having it hashed out the way it was.

              And Incognito probably is a jerk. He may even be a racist, although like you I doubt that. He is probably no more of a racist than is Paula Dean. But if he can be a productive member of the Broncos and be an upgrade on the offensive line, I really don't care.

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              • Originally posted by DirtDiver View Post
                The "n-word" is like any other word. It can be used maliciously or in humor. Yes, even white people can use the "n-word" amongst friends without it being offensive. I use to work with a couple of guys, one was white and the other black. They'd get to picking at each other and it was cracker this and "n-word" that. Always in good spirit, laughter and never single problem between them. Incognito described his relationship with Martin as exactly like that. Somewhere that changed. Who knows what really happened.

                As far as the sexual assault goes. Was he convicted of anything? You are innocent until proven guilty in this country. Ask Ben Roethlisberger, Perrish Cox, Coby Bryant, Jameis Winston or countless others that have been accused of sexual assault.

                And what in the world is wrong with a group of grown men having a meeting a strip club? Nothing illegal about that last time I checked. Elway isn't looking for a son-in-law, he is looking for an offensive lineman.
                The "n-word" is just like any other word? Really? In the workplace of a $Billion dollar business? Not in the world that I live in.

                And holding meetings with fellow employees of that $Billion dollar business at a strip club? That wouldn't fly at any of the companies I've ever worked for.

                And no, there was no "conviction" for sexual assault. The Miami Dolphins paying a settlement to the female volunteer at that Charity Golf Event was tantamount to an admission. Last I checked, OJ wasn't convicted of murdering his wife and her friend and yet everybody knows the truth. Does "no conviction" mean that a company should be under some obligation to keep that employee? I've seen people fired for the most innocent flirtations or sexist comments.

                Hey, I'm just speaking for myself. But if any of those activities ever occurred in the companies where I've worked, the offending party would have their keester kicked to the street. And not for "convictable" offenses, but for just a complete lack of professionalism. Is it "PC"? Maybe. But these $Billion dollar teams aren't the local car repair garage, or construction site. The teams and the players get the big bucks and have a responsibility to their fans. And evidently, NFL teams agree or incognito wouldn't still be unemployed.

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                • Originally posted by gtown53 View Post
                  The "n-word" is just like any other word? Really? In the workplace of a $Billion dollar business? Not in the world that I live in.

                  And holding meetings with fellow employees of that $Billion dollar business at a strip club? That wouldn't fly at any of the companies I've ever worked for.

                  And no, there was no "conviction" for sexual assault. The Miami Dolphins paying a settlement to the female volunteer at that Charity Golf Event was tantamount to an admission. Last I checked, OJ wasn't convicted of murdering his wife and her friend and yet everybody knows the truth. Does "no conviction" mean that a company should be under some obligation to keep that employee? I've seen people fired for the most innocent flirtations or sexist comments.

                  Hey, I'm just speaking for myself. But if any of those activities ever occurred in the companies where I've worked, the offending party would have their keester kicked to the street. And not for "convictable" offenses, but for just a complete lack of professionalism. Is it "PC"? Maybe. But these $Billion dollar teams aren't the local car repair garage, or construction site. The teams and the players get the big bucks and have a responsibility to their fans. And evidently, NFL teams agree or incognito wouldn't still be unemployed.
                  These guys are young athletes full of pee and vinegar. They aren't lawyers or businessmen working in an office environment of a billion dollar corporation.

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                  • Originally posted by DirtDiver View Post
                    Well he did draft Roby and he wasn't squeaky clean before he was drafted. And if being squeaky clean is a requirement for Elway, then how do you explain them working out Incognito? You think Elway didn't know about his history or perhaps wasn't aware he was working out for the Broncos? I know they haven't signed him but they did look at him, which leads me to believe the squeaky clean theory is bogus.
                    Lol, bogus? Not at all. Based on Elways draft/free agent history, it's factual information.
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                    • Originally posted by fallforward3y+ View Post
                      Adrian Peterson-I agree, he's worse than Incognito. Since he never denied it, I would say he probably did it. Should be in jail, not playing.
                      Greg Hardy-I believe that case is still only alleged, though if he did do all he was accused of, he should be in jail.
                      Ray Rice-should have gone to jail, but at least he's payed with a suspension. I have a 'do the crime, do the time, get back to work' attitude about things, so if you've been punished I'm ok with you coming back. Incognito however, is a repeat offender unlike Rice. He's been given too many chances.
                      Dez Bryant-he grabbed her wrist, likely not causing much harm, likely not intending to cause much harm. It may technically be assault, but there's a difference in that and say, hitting her in the face.
                      Josh Gordon-He should probably clean up the weed, but weed doesn't hurt anyone. To tell the truth, if a player doesn't get caught with weed I don't have a problem with it, and it doesn't effect the team really.
                      Percy Harvin-that's a good reason not to sign him, but Incognito seems WAY worse than Harvin with that. I get the rest of the guys, but Harvin, Gordon and Bryant hardly compare to Incognito IMO.
                      Aldon Smith-I'm a Niners fan, I still say he should be in jail(or at least rehab). Yelling bomb threats at an air port, and DUI both should not be taken lightly.

                      I guess though, the difference in a guy like Smith and Incognito is the malicious intent. Smith seems more so to do very stupid things in poor judgment without intending to hurt anyone, where as Incognito...he seems malicious.
                      Thank you for your honest feedback. The only two I think you should rethink is Gordon and Aldo Smith.
                      Gordon has had multiple chances to not smoke weed and continues to choose to partake instead of being a good teammate and waiting 5 to 7 year's until he retires a multi millionaire and own a weed farm where he burn all day. He signed a contract that he wouldn't smoke the same as millions of people in the USA who are employed. Weed isn't the issue Gordons priorities are. Imagine how good the 6-3 browns would be with Gordon this year.

                      Aldo Smith and anyone who has multiple DUI's cannot be considered people who want to hurt others. Drunk driving kills thousands every year.

                      i personally would take any of the players I listed because winning football games isn't about what you do on the field.
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                      • Incognito is a punk. The NFL is full of them. Martin is rich kid with lawyer parents.
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                        • Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                          Thank you for your honest feedback. The only two I think you should rethink is Gordon and Aldo Smith.
                          Gordon has had multiple chances to not smoke weed and continues to choose to partake instead of being a good teammate and waiting 5 to 7 year's until he retires a multi millionaire and own a weed farm where he burn all day. He signed a contract that he wouldn't smoke the same as millions of people in the USA who are employed. Weed isn't the issue Gordons priorities are. Imagine how good the 6-3 browns would be with Gordon this year.

                          Aldo Smith and anyone who has multiple DUI's cannot be considered people who want to hurt others. Drunk driving kills thousands every year.

                          i personally would take any of the players I listed because winning football games isn't about what you do on the field.
                          With the last sentence, I assume you meant isn't what you do off the field.

                          As for Gordon and Smith, it is true that Gordon's priorities are a concern and I don't mean it shouldn't be a concern. I more so meant that I don't so much have a moral issue with what Gordon did, and didn't think it was on the same level as some of the others, or anywhere near it.

                          With Aldon, what I meant was that he seems more like a dumb arse than a malicious person. He probably is one of the 'serial drunk driver' types that thinks he's ok to drive when he isn't, and doesn't seem to learn from his mistakes. He seems addicted to alcohol and probably needs help. Believe me, I don't very much like the actions of drunk drivers. I live in Las Vegas, so we have plenty of them. An NFL player IMO should also be the last person who ever drives drunk, because if they were hit by drunk drivers their career could be over so they should empathize IMO, plus they could easily afford cabs. He should serve some time for what he has done, but I guess he doesn't seem like a flat out 'bad' guy, but more of a guy that can not handle his alcohol, and displays very poor judgment. Incognito however, does seem like a flat out 'bad' guy.

                          With your last sentence, I agree to an extent. I don't feel it's the NFL's responsibility to not sign players for committing crimes, I feel that is the police's job. I suppose for me the reasoning is that if someone does something 'bad' enough, they would be locked up(deservingly so) and unable to play, and when they get out they've done their time and should be able to return to playing.

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                          • Originally posted by DirtDiver View Post
                            I wasn't just going on Incognito's word. Several of his teammates backed his story up. If you watch the video posted above, he claims to have some pretty bad texts on his phone that were from Martin as well. Whether he did or not, I don't know since I haven't actually seen them.

                            But at the end of the day, I think you nailed it in that last paragraph. I don't think Incognito ever meant any harm to Martin and he simply took a little too far for Martin's comfort. But at some point Martin appeared to have been playing along and all I'm saying is that he should have simply told Incognito to knock it off and handled it internally with the team if need be, instead of having it hashed out the way it was.

                            And Incognito probably is a jerk. He may even be a racist, although like you I doubt that. He is probably no more of a racist than is Paula Dean. But if he can be a productive member of the Broncos and be an upgrade on the offensive line, I really don't care.
                            Well, I didn't exactly mean he meant no harm. I do believe he did, I just don't think it was for racial reasons. He was the 'ring leader' of a group that included black guys, who seemed to be in on it(if they weren't, I doubt they go a long with it). If he didn't mean harm, then he probably has VERY poor judgment, although to tell the truth he probably both meant harm and has poor judgment.

                            With Martin, he probably didn't help the situation by going a long with things, but it's hard for me to really judge his actions in walking away. He was ganged up on, which makes it pretty hard to fight back. It's tough to fight back successfully if your going against the culture of the locker room. It likely if he had fought back, it would have been worse. Coaches didn't seem to have much control of the locker room, so it didn't seem there was much he could do. I'm happy for him that he got a chance in SFO though.

                            In truth though, I doubt he would be a big upgrade for Denver's line anyhow. He seemed like a decent but not great run blocker, and not so good pass blocker from what I hear of his play in Miami in 2013. Plus, I've heard complaints of penalties, and I doubt he'd help that.

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                            • Oh well, he isn't getting signed so it's all irrelevant now.

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                              • Looks like the thread has served its course.
                                Last edited by Fargo; 11-13-2014, 02:48 PM.
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