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John Elway: Broncos 'not afraid to play young guys'

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  • #31
    Originally posted by RocketArm006 View Post
    I acknowledge that many young players have had some significant playing time: Ball, Trevathan, Wolfe, etc.

    It's some of those head scratchers that I'm curious about; specifically CJ and Latimer (just to name a couple). it seemed pretty obvious CJ had potential, but he didn't get a sniff until he was the last option. Also, when they decided to keep McManus for KOs, I thought Caldwell would be the casualty, but they cut Burse instead. To me, Caldwell brings nothing to the table, so I really question some of those personnel decisions.

    Maybe some of it was Elway, maybe Fox, maybe Manning - almost impossible to tell.

    I just hope young guys who show some promise (e.g CJ) get their shot sooner than later.
    What about Brandon Marshall too? He didn't hardly get any time until the players in front of him went down and he ended up being better than them.
    :lombardi:2019 Adopt-A-Bronco: Dr. Dre'Mont Jones
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    • #32
      Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
      What about Brandon Marshall too? He didn't hardly get any time until the players in front of him went down and he ended up being better than them.
      Sometimes that's just how it goes though. CJ was never going to play in front of two high draft picks. BMarsh was an outcast, released from the Jags twice. Manning isn't comfortable with Latimer, so he's not going to play over Caldwell. :shrug: :/

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
        What about Brandon Marshall too? He didn't hardly get any time until the players in front of him went down and he ended up being better than them.
        Totally. I only named a couple of examples. I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how this LB corps looks next year. we actually have a good stable of LBers, imo.
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        • #34
          I consider myself an avid 'Fox-hater" from years back, but this argument seems like a stretch to me.

          If anything, I'd say that one of Fox and Elway's big issues was that, once they picked out "their" guy, they would stick with him past the point of reason, or until injuries forced their hand. Running back was the easiest position to see this. They really really wanted their draft picks to work out, but "fortunately", they both went down at the same time, or we might not have seen C.J. at all this year.

          And let's not forget how "sharp" Orton looked in practice, or how long he was our "best chance to win". It took near-riots in Denver to get that phantom sacking, phantom fumbling pile out of the lineup.

          To be fair, though, Shanny even seemed to do this with rb's, at the end of his time here. Peyton Hillis was 6th or 7th in line for us, but once he was the starter, he showed that he was clearly better than the other options that came before him.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
            I think he's just a big Fox fan who's upset that we fired him.
            No, not even close. And I state that several times. I just can't ride a hate train.
            #swapping

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            • #36
              Originally posted by samparnell View Post
              During the past four years, the Denver Broncos have been successful developing UDFAs who have seen the field: CJ Anderson, Paul Cornick, Ben Garland, Chris Harris, Steven Johnson, Lerentee McCray, Jeremy Stewart, Juwan Thompson, Mitch Unrein.

              Of the twenty-nine players drafted during the past four years, twenty-four are still with the team. Sixteen of them have been starters. All except three of them have played in games as far as I know.

              That seems like pretty decent development and usage of young players. I'm sure this practice will continue.
              This is all I was saying. Maybe U stated it much better than I did, lol!
              #swapping

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Garfield View Post
                Most of not all of these players you listed "Orlando Franklin, Anderson, Roby, Moore, JT, Hillman, Ball, Miller, Sly, Harris, Thompson, Wolfe, Quanterus, Marshall, Webster, and Bolden." Did not start until the guy in front of him went down. Some worked into the rotation as the starters tried. Only two instant Starters there were miller and wolf although he did not last as one long.
                Exactly! Very good point!

                I have seen someone give credit to the staff for starting players we put in after 1 or more guys got injured. People trying to give the coaching staff credit for playing Cj Anderson, Tebow, Marshall and other similiar guys, in this thread and this topic atleast, are wrong. We are talking about picking the best players to play and when the difference makers are getting on the field only because of injuries that is not a good sign.

                Also the coaching staff should not get credit for starting Von Miller, Franklin, Moore, Sly and Wolfe. These are high draft picks who the coaching staff SHOULD be getting on the field. The are suppose to be elite top level coaches. That is like giving a compass credit for finding north. What we should be doing is asking why in the world can they not figure out how to get Latimer on the field.

                And when they put a guy like Burse on the field...it makes you really wonder what in the world is going on in their heads.
                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                  Exactly! Very good point!

                  I have seen someone give credit to the staff for starting players we put in after 1 or more guys got injured. People trying to give the coaching staff credit for playing Cj Anderson, Tebow, Marshall and other similiar guys, in this thread and this topic atleast, are wrong. We are talking about picking the best players to play and when the difference makers are getting on the field only because of injuries that is not a good sign.

                  Also the coaching staff should not get credit for starting Von Miller, Franklin, Moore, Sly and Wolfe. These are high draft picks who the coaching staff SHOULD be getting on the field. The are suppose to be elite top level coaches. That is like giving a compass credit for finding north. What we should be doing is asking why in the world can they not figure out how to get Latimer on the field.

                  And when they put a guy like Burse on the field...it makes you really wonder what in the world is going on in their heads.
                  It's not "giving credit". It's about a statement that that staff didn't like to play young talent. And it's false. Regardless of how the argument is skewed, in either direction, it's just not a true statement. On every team, on every level, there's always going to be somebody who's shot doesn't come until injury or any other numerous reasons, like Marshall.

                  He's an example that was used several times in this thread. He proved to be great this past season. But he wouldn't have gotten a chance unless Irving went down, or played poorly. And the irony in that is Irving was another name mentioned quite a bit in this thread as well. There's not enough spots for everyone you think should play to play. And we can debate how the coach s came to their conclusions of who should and shouldn't. But we can go back and have that about every coach for every team in football history.

                  Bottom line is just what Sam said a few post up. The number of young talent that makes up the roster, shows they did a very good job getting your guys on the field.
                  #swapping

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                    It's not "giving credit". It's about a statement that that staff didn't like to play young talent. And it's false. Regardless of how the argument is skewed, in either direction, it's just not a true statement. On every team, on every level, there's always going to be somebody who's shot doesn't come until injury or any other numerous reasons, like Marshall.

                    He's an example that was used several times in this thread. He proved to be great this past season. But he wouldn't have gotten a chance unless Irving went down, or played poorly. And the irony in that is Irving was another name mentioned quite a bit in this thread as well. There's not enough spots for everyone you think should play to play. And we can debate how the coach s came to their conclusions of who should and shouldn't. But we can go back and have that about every coach for every team in football history.

                    Bottom line is just what Sam said a few post up. The number of young talent that makes up the roster, shows they did a very good job getting your guys on the field.
                    Anyone can start the 1st and 2nd rounders. With the salary cap teams are forced to play guys.

                    The question is how many guys like CJ, Marshall, Tebow and Latimer ride the bench when another coaching staff would find a way to win with them sooner then the old coaching staff.
                    Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                      Anyone can start the 1st and 2nd rounders. With the salary cap teams are forced to play guys.

                      The question is how many guys like CJ, Marshall, Tebow and Latimer ride the bench when another coaching staff would find a way to win with them sooner then the old coaching staff.
                      Sure: David Carr; Joey Harrington; Charles Rogers; Vince Young; Matt Leinart; Jamarcus Russell; Vernon Gholston; Aaron Curry; Tim Tebow; and, a number of others.
                      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                        Anyone can start the 1st and 2nd rounders. With the salary cap teams are forced to play guys.

                        The question is how many guys like CJ, Marshall, Tebow and Latimer ride the bench when another coaching staff would find a way to win with them sooner then the old coaching staff.
                        Sorry, that's a poor argument. That can be said for every NFL a roster. There are guys always waiting for their shot. Some perform well and exceed expectations. While some don't and quickly find themselves looking for a new team. But it's about the opportunity. When Irving and DannyT went down, Fox could've easily plucked some has been vet. But they trusted the depth was coached up and ready to work. That's more a testament to the point I've been making, than to strengthen your case. Even the DL depth and rotations. All very young and talented.

                        And all the guys I listed were not 1st and second rounders. Who would u have liked Marshall to start over Miller, Irving, or DannyT?

                        If PM wain't comfortable with Latimer, BECAUSE HE DIDNT KNOW THE OFFENSE, what did u want Fox and Gase to do? Force him when PM was clearly not comfortable with him in there?
                        #swapping

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                        • #42
                          There is a reason Cody Latimer didn't see the field more and I don't know what it is. There will be a new offense this year and we'll see if he plays in it more. Kubiak says he will use more 21 personnel formations and those have two WRs (X & Z) If DT is back, one would imagine that he and Sanders would be ahead of Latimer in a rotation in the event two back formations are used most often. If they go 11 personnel, one may reasonably expect to see Latimer on the field.

                          Michael Schofield didn't play in the first two preseason games IIRC. When he did play in preseason, he was driven back and blown up several times. I got the impression that he needed a year in the weight room. Paul Cornick was clearly better than Michael Schofield and Vinston Painter in preseason. Schofield made the roster and Painter went to the PS from which he was signed to the Browns' roster. Elway said they consider Schofield to be a right tackle. We shall see.

                          I thought the Broncos could have signed Matt Paradis as an UDFA. He was ranked about the same as another MWC Center, Dillon Farrell, who was an UDFA who made the Niners' roster and played last year. The Broncos had Manny Ramirez and Will Montgomery, so Denver was able to keep Paradis on the PS in 2014.

                          None of the offensive guys drafted in 2014 contributed except for a little from Latimer. IDK why that is. It could have to do with the no huddle offense called at LOS via audibles and hand signals by Peyton Manning.

                          Football coaches are very imaginative when it comes to creating a language to communicate with players especially on offense. However, even the most complicated audible/hand signal system invented by Gase/Manning et al. can only call a fairly simple offense with a relatively small volume of plays. It will be interesting to see what Kubiak, Dennison and Knapp come up with.

                          Kubiak and Dennison are WCO guys. WCO dictates to the D using formations. The play calls are very long and complicated because they give the formation, shifts, motion, where each eligible lines up in the formation and which route each runs if it's a pass. I have difficulty seeing that offense being called at LOS via audibles.

                          WCO uses a script of about 25 plays. Those can be called in the huddle which might be a better use of the play clock than trying to read coverages at LOS. The script is an integral part of the WCO. I'm looking forward to seeing what Kubiak's offense will look like in 2015.
                          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                            Sorry, that's a poor argument. That can be said for every NFL a roster. There are guys always waiting for their shot. Some perform well and exceed expectations. While some don't and quickly find themselves looking for a new team. But it's about the opportunity. When Irving and DannyT went down, Fox could've easily plucked some has been vet. But they trusted the depth was coached up and ready to work. That's more a testament to the point I've been making, than to strengthen your case. Even the DL depth and rotations. All very young and talented.

                            And all the guys I listed were not 1st and second rounders. Who would u have liked Marshall to start over Miller, Irving, or DannyT?

                            If PM wain't comfortable with Latimer, BECAUSE HE DIDNT KNOW THE OFFENSE, what did u want Fox and Gase to do? Force him when PM was clearly not comfortable with him in there?
                            The bolded part depends on how you look at it. I would say that when Irving & Danny T went down, Fox was forced to play the next man up. For all you know Fox did go to Elway and asked him to bring in a vet and Elway said no.....It always seemed to me that Fox valued the vets over talent

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by JCJE View Post
                              The bolded part depends on how you look at it. I would say that when Irving & Danny T went down, Fox was forced to play the next man up. For all you know Fox did go to Elway and asked him to bring in a vet and Elway said no.....It always seemed to me that Fox valued the vets over talent
                              U could possibly be right, but it's nit-picking to find a reason to say Fox didn't like to play young guys. Because, and again, you could make the same statement for every coach and GM in the league when two starters go down. So to use some conspiracy theory to pigeon hole Fox, is just wrong. All the proof of the past 4 season says otherwise.

                              Read Sam's post at the top of the page. It basically crushes that myth. Because it's only spoken by those who feel some type of way that he didn't play who they wanted him to play.
                              #swapping

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