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Gary Kubiak: 'I'd pick Peyton Manning for any offense'

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  • #16
    Originally posted by capt. Jack View Post
    Like it or not, Fox will go down in history as one of he most successful coaches ever in Denver !
    Behind Shanahan, Dan Reeves, and Red Miller.
    Fox was 8-8 without Manning and 3 of those wins were amazing finishes thanks toTebow not his elite coaching.
    So yes your right he is fourth all time out of 14 coaches ( some of those guys include Wade Phillips, McDaniels, and Eric Studesville
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    • #17
      Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
      Behind Shanahan, Dan Reeves, and Red Miller.
      Fox was 8-8 without Manning and 3 of those wins were amazing finishes thanks toTebow not his elite coaching.
      So yes your right he is fourth all time out of 14 coaches ( some of those guys include Wade Phillips, McDaniels, and Eric Studesville
      If you go by winning percentage, the order is: Fox .691; Miller .626; Shanahan .616; and, Reeves .596
      "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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      • #18
        Originally posted by samparnell View Post
        If you go by winning percentage, the order is: Fox .691; Miller .626; Shanahan .616; and, Reeves .596
        Winning percentage is good and all but imo what seperates good coaches from great coaches is the ability to put an elite staff together that can beat not just bad teams but can beat 3-4 good teams in a row to win a ring. Notice I included their staff because imo that is a big thing that seperates the elite from the good. I mention only the names of the HC but it is about their staff as well.

        Fox - 0-2 in Super Bowls
        Reeves - 0-4 in Super Bowls

        Shanahan - 2-0

        I could agrue Reeves is better then Shanahan but I think the arguement that Shanahan is better is much easier to make.

        Fox is not in the same level as either of them. He is a good coach...just not elite.

        Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
        Behind Shanahan, Dan Reeves, and Red Miller.
        Fox was 8-8 without Manning and 3 of those wins were amazing finishes thanks toTebow not his elite coaching.
        So yes your right he is fourth all time out of 14 coaches ( some of those guys include Wade Phillips, McDaniels, and Eric Studesville
        I been saying a while Fox and his staff were not as good as a NFL coaching staff should be at figuring out who the best players to play are and how to best take advantage of their players' talents.

        Think Fox and his staff had one of the best teams in the NFL three years in a row and twice they could not win a playoff game.
        Last edited by Hadez; 03-27-2015, 06:10 AM.
        Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Hadez View Post
          Winning percentage is good and all but imo what seperates good coaches from great coaches is the ability to put an elite staff together that can beat not just bad teams but can beat 3-4 good teams in a row to win a ring. Notice I included their staff because imo that is a big thing that seperates the elite from the good. I mention only the names of the HC but it is about their staff as well.

          Fox - 0-2 in Super Bowls
          Reeves - 0-4 in Super Bowls

          Shanahan - 2-0

          I could agrue Reeves is better then Shanahan but I think the arguement that Shanahan is better is much easier to make.

          Fox is not in the same level as either of them. He is a good coach...just not elite.

          I been saying a while Fox and his staff were not as good as a NFL coaching staff should be at figuring out who the best players to play are and how to best take advantage of their players' talents.

          Think Fox and his staff had one of the best teams in the NFL three years in a row and twice they could not win a playoff game.
          Dan Reeves' Bronco teams were 0-3 in Super Bowls XXI, XXII and XXIV.

          You neglected Red Miller whose 1977 Broncos lost Super Bowl XII.

          It is correct to consider Mike Shanahan the best coach in Bronco history. Both he and Reeves had Elway. Both he and Reeves were offensive coaches who had a very clear idea of how the offense should be run. Shanahan's innovation was to marry the WCO passing attack to the Zone Series of Alex Gibbs.

          Reeves had Joe Collier and Wade Phillips as his DC in his Super Bowls. Shanahan had Greg Robinson, but fired him and went through several more before he was fired himself.

          Red Miller had Craig Morton as his QB and Joe Collier as his DC. Until Fox, Red had the best winning percentage of Bronco head coaches. Red Miller was an offensive coach, too, an old O-Line coach.

          Fox, as a defensive coach, depended on others as OCs. McCoy was pretty good, but he left to be a HC. IMO Adam Gase was just too young and inexperienced to be put into a position where he had to work with Peyton Manning.

          How to rank the next three coaches behind Shanahan is an interesting topic. Miller, Reeves and Fox all took the Broncos to a Super Bowl in 25% of their seasons as Head Coaches. Of these, Red Miller has the highest winning %, and maybe not as a good a QB. I would rank him second. IMO Fox and Reeves are a tossup with the edge going to Reeves.
          "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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          • #20
            Originally posted by samparnell View Post
            If you go by winning percentage, the order is: Fox .691; Miller .626; Shanahan .616; and, Reeves .596
            Shanahan won two Superbowl's! Making him #1 hands down.
            Reeves & Fox are a lot a like very conservative, but Reeves was with Denver from 81 to 92. Fox only stuck around 4 years. Reeves had a better 4 year run from 86 to 89 going to 3 Superbowls in a 4 year span.

            Coach_Red Miller_— in his first season as the Broncos' head coach — was named_NFL Coach of the Year, and led a team that had never won more than 9 games to a 12-2 record and the franchise's first Superbowl.
            The Broncos beat the last two Superbowl Champions in the playoffs that year, (Raiders & Pittsburgh)
            Fox's Broncos team beat the Chargers who had no business being in the playoffs, and a beat up NE team on his road to the Superbowl. Miller also had Craig Morton not Peyton and the highest scoring offense in nfl history.
            You can go with winning percentage but I'll stick to Fox being #4 on my list.
            Last edited by 58Miller; 03-27-2015, 07:20 AM.
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            • #21
              Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
              Shanahan won two Superbowl's! Making him #1 hands down.
              Reeves & Fox are a lot a like very conservative, but Reeves was with Denver from 81 to 92. Fox only stuck around 4 years. Reeves had a better 4 year run from 86 to 89 going to 3 Superbowls in a 4 year span.

              Coach_Red Miller_— in his first season as the Broncos' head coach — was named_NFL Coach of the Year, and led a team that had never won more than 9 games to a 12-2 record and the franchise's first Superbowl.
              The Broncos beat the last two Superbowl Champions in the playoffs that year, (Raiders & Pittsburgh)
              Fox's Broncos team beat the Chargers who had no business being in the playoffs, and a beat up NE team on his road to the Superbowl. Miller also had Craig Morton not Peyton and the highest scoring offense in nfl history.
              You can go with winning percentage but I'll stick to Fox being #4 on my list.
              You may want to notice that I said if. Winning percentage is one way of comparing coaches. Don't shoot the messenger.

              I do agree that Shanahan is the top head coach in Bronco history.

              As stated in post #19 above, I think Red Miller is second. Like you, I give the edge to Reeves over Fox, who has the highest winning %.
              "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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              • #22
                Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                Dan Reeves' Bronco teams were 0-3 in Super Bowls XXI, XXII and XXIV.

                You neglected Red Miller whose 1977 Broncos lost Super Bowl XII.

                It is correct to consider Mike Shanahan the best coach in Bronco history. Both he and Reeves had Elway. Both he and Reeves were offensive coaches who had a very clear idea of how the offense should be run. Shanahan's innovation was to marry the WCO passing attack to the Zone Series of Alex Gibbs.

                Reeves had Joe Collier and Wade Phillips as his DC in his Super Bowls. Shanahan had Greg Robinson, but fired him and went through several more before he was fired himself.

                Red Miller had Craig Morton as his QB and Joe Collier as his DC. Until Fox, Red had the best winning percentage of Bronco head coaches. Red Miller was an offensive coach, too, an old O-Line coach.

                Fox, as a defensive coach, depended on others as OCs. McCoy was pretty good, but he left to be a HC. IMO Adam Gase was just too young and inexperienced to be put into a position where he had to work with Peyton Manning.

                How to rank the next three coaches behind Shanahan is an interesting topic. Miller, Reeves and Fox all took the Broncos to a Super Bowl in 25% of their seasons as Head Coaches. Of these, Red Miller has the highest winning %, and maybe not as a good a QB. I would rank him second. IMO Fox and Reeves are a tossup with the edge going to Reeves.
                And Fox was 0-1 with us not the 0-2 I mentioned.

                I included both Reeves and Fox loses in Super Bowls with other teams because I think it is fair when judging how good of coaches they were/are even if it happened with other teams. I know it could be easy to poke holes in this concept but it is how I chose to evaulate this particular subject.

                I know nothing of Red Miller other then his numbers so I left him out of my comment.

                I do know allot about Reeves Fox and Shanahan. To even imply Reeves or Fox are better then Shanahan is incorrect imo.
                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by samparnell View Post
                  You may want to notice that I said if. Winning percentage is one way of comparing coaches. Don't shoot the messenger.

                  I do agree that Shanahan is the top head coach in Bronco history.

                  As stated in post #19 above, I think Red Miller is second. Like you, I give the edge to Reeves over Fox, who has the highest winning %.
                  Sorry Sam, i didn't mean any disrespect. I value your opinion and knowledge of our team.
                  sounds like we're on the same page.
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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                    And Fox was 0-1 with us not the 0-2 I mentioned.

                    I included both Reeves and Fox loses in Super Bowls with other teams because I think it is fair when judging how good of coaches they were/are even if it happened with other teams. I know it could be easy to poke holes in this concept but it is how I chose to evaulate this particular subject.

                    I know nothing of Red Miller other then his numbers so I left him out of my comment.

                    I do know allot about Reeves Fox and Shanahan. To even imply Reeves or Fox are better then Shanahan is incorrect imo.
                    See post #19.
                    "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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                    • #25
                      Dan Reeves played or coached in a record nine Super Bowls – five with the Dallas Cowboys, three with Denver and one with Atlanta. Prior to coaching, he spent 16 years in the Cowboys organization – five as a player, three as a player/coach and eight as an assistant coach. He should be in the NFL HOF!

                      Since Reeves coached the Broncos for 12 seasons compared to 4 seasons by Miller and Fox I would give him #2 behind Shanahan. The longer you coach the harder it is to maintain a relative higher winning % ... Reeves 12 years 184 regular season games ended with a .601 winning %, also went 7-6 in the playoffs (.538). Miller only coached 62 regular season games and went 2-3 in the playoffs. He actually took over a team that was built by John Ralston's regime. IMO, Miller was in the right place at the right time in 1977. The Broncos did not win a playoff game the rest of Miller's term and was let go after the 1980 season's 8-8 record. Different era but talk about a conservative coach ... Red Miller was that.

                      What has Shanahan won without John Elway? 1 playoff game!

                      Fox is a good coach too ... he was very flexible with Tebow at QB, the offense ranked #1 in rushing that year and won a playoff game along with a AFC West championship. Then in 2013 in with a rookie OC (Gase) the offense was the opposite ranking #1 in NFL HISTORY in passing.
                      :2cents:
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by 58Miller View Post
                        Sorry Sam, i didn't mean any disrespect. I value your opinion and knowledge of our team.
                        sounds like we're on the same page.
                        Yes we are.
                        "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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