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Emmanuel Sanders says cheating should negate Patriots' Super Bowl win

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  • #16
    Originally posted by flosstein View Post
    I guess I'm in the minority. While his heart was in a good place with the youth and preaching the issue of good sportsmanship, I don't think he should've mentioned any team in particular. there was no need to speak on the Patsy's business, so bluntly. That could easily be us this season, then he looks every bit the fool.
    He was asked by a camper (a kid attending the camp). So should he have just lied to the kid and shrugged it off like it didn't bother him or state his opinion on the cheating?

    How could that be us this season? Do we cheat on a regular basis?
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    Defense wins championships

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    • #17
      Originally posted by flosstein View Post
      I guess I'm in the minority. While his heart was in a good place with the youth and preaching the issue of good sportsmanship, I don't think he should've mentioned any team in particular. there was no need to speak on the Patsy's business, so bluntly. That could easily be us this season, then he looks every bit the fool.
      How does he look foolish? He only would if it was him caught cheating or in some other issue. If another player or Broncos staff then he can easily state then he states disappointment and moves on.

      No issues with him addressing it with a youth camp. Especially if asked. It is ok to talk to youth about ethical or moral issues. Adults can have opinions. And even share them. Kids need to learn that mistakes and bad choices can happen. How we learn and move on from them is valuable for youth to think about.

      The Pats issues are societal. Denials and avoiding blame are the standard. I have worked with teens for almost 25 years. They hear the message "it is not what I should do, it is what can I get away with" being expressed every day.

      Good for Sanders for setting a strong example. It is just an opinion but hopefully one some of the kids really heard.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by CTM View Post
        You're missing a lot of components that go into a football play. Offensive line work: not reliant on a football. Receiver running routes: not reliant on a football. I think it's debatable how much of an advantage is really gained from deflating a football to the extent it was done. Again, Pats/Brady broke the rule, were punished proportionately to the crime, that should be the end of it. It doesn't discredit their achievement this past season.

        That would be like if a receiver was about to run by a defender before a pass and the defender just grabbed him to prevent it. Dirty play? Yes. Within the rules? No. Punishment administered? Yes. Legitimacy of team's victory called into question? Absolutely not.

        The larger point also is that one person is responsible for the football's conditions: the quarterback. Should the offensive line be punished and stripped of a win because of something they had nothing to do with? Defense as well?
        If a route is off by a bit but the ball is easier to catch because it is softer that kind of negates perfect route running.

        If your converting third downs because everyone has better control of the ball that helps the OL. As well as the D because now the other team is on its heels.

        When Brady cheats the entire team is helped. How much? Hard to qualify.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Rastic View Post
          At some point you have to acknowledge it is a team sport where you win and you lose as a team. Some infractions are obviously not worth such a serious consequence but some should, especially if there are mitigating factors such as non-cooperation.

          I don't think they should be stripped of their title but lie Mark Maguire and Sammy Sosa, et . al, I think they deserve the blemish that their title contains.

          What I would have preferred was the NFL to deal with this and things like this sooner than later. Maybe the regular season can handle them dragging their feet but the playoffs are so much different. Perhaps they'll institute new procedures that will assess this in the future.
          Sorry I'm a hard liner if they win because of cheating and In most people's eyes it was.

          Punish the whole team. Take the title away that then serves notice that cheating is not tolerated and everyone on the team puts pressure on each other NOT to cheat.

          Meant to add serves notice to 31 other teams play by the rules or lose your banners, rings and titles.
          Last edited by Garfield; 06-26-2015, 01:09 PM.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by flosstein View Post
            I guess I'm in the minority. While his heart was in a good place with the youth and preaching the issue of good sportsmanship, I don't think he should've mentioned any team in particular. there was no need to speak on the Patsy's business, so bluntly. That could easily be us this season, then he looks every bit the fool.
            If the Broncos cheat then everyone involved should be punished if he is involved the. He would look foolish

            BTW just because Brady and the ball boys did this does not mean that everyone in the organization was aware of it.

            Just means they all be it's from the soft balls.

            But once they know about it peer pressure should be used NOT to allow anyother cheating To continue.

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            • #21
              Part of being on a team or organization is setting the acceptable standards and holding each other accountable.

              If a teammate knows your using steroids, using a corked bat, illegally taping the other team's practices or tampering with the equipment to gain advantage and does not say something then they lose the right to complain when someone gets caught.

              If a teammate does not know they should be furious for the offending action. Not continue to make excuses for them.

              I have little patience for the teammates claiming "I didn't see anything" or using "I got your back " mentality.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Garfield View Post
                Let me add it was not ony Brady that had an advantage of a soft ball. The recievers catching the ball, as well as Rbs being ale to hold on to it while running with it.

                Some one had a post showing their fumble rate was drastically lower for several years.

                So not only did Brady cheat so did anyone that touched the softer balls.
                lol.......
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                • #23
                  Originally posted by DarkHorse26 View Post
                  He was asked by a camper (a kid attending the camp). So should he have just lied to the kid and shrugged it off like it didn't bother him or state his opinion on the cheating?

                  How could that be us this season? Do we cheat on a regular basis?
                  Read what I actually wrote. I agree with him giving kids a good strong message about good sportsmanship. But my point is that message could still be done without going into specifics of this team or that team or this player and that player.

                  And u don't know what "we" do inside the locker room, the huddles, and within the confines of Dove Valley. We like to hope there's no shenanigans, but u never know. So to name drop the Pats and Brady could prove to be foolish. What does he say if it's Something fishy with PM after this season?



                  Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                  How does he look foolish? He only would if it was him caught cheating or in some other issue. If another player or Broncos staff then he can easily state then he states disappointment and moves on.

                  No issues with him addressing it with a youth camp. Especially if asked. It is ok to talk to youth about ethical or moral issues. Adults can have opinions. And even share them. Kids need to learn that mistakes and bad choices can happen. How we learn and move on from them is valuable for youth to think about.

                  The Pats issues are societal. Denials and avoiding blame are the standard. I have worked with teens for almost 25 years. They hear the message "it is not what I should do, it is what can I get away with" being expressed every day.

                  Good for Sanders for setting a strong example. It is just an opinion but hopefully one some of the kids really heard.
                  Again u also missed the first thing I said. I agree with the message. Just not the delivery. Because another good message to teach kids that has been totally lost in this social media run world? Decorum. You don't have to call anyone out by name to drive a message home. He used it when asked about DT and his contract. His response was "it's none of my business." So when asked by a kid about sportsmanship pertaining to the Pats and Brady, a better response would've been, "I'm not going to comment of the Pats and any specific issues with that organization. But on the topic of sportsmanship...............". That's how you professionally answer that question and drive your point home. Not going on a rant about how they wouldn't be Champions. That comes off as sour grapes. Whether it's meant that way or not.


                  So again, I agree with the message he was pushing, just not the delivery.
                  #swapping

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Garfield View Post
                    If the Broncos cheat then everyone involved should be punished if he is involved the. He would look foolish

                    BTW just because Brady and the ball boys did this does not mean that everyone in the organization was aware of it.

                    Just means they all be it's from the soft balls.

                    But once they know about it peer pressure should be used NOT to allow anyother cheating To continue.
                    That's great in a perfect world. But Pro Sports is all about a competitive advantage. Stick-um, under inflated balls, taping practices, circumventing the salary cap, etc......... It's been a part of this game for decades and will continue for decades more. It's just what's the next "advantage" to be taken.
                    #swapping

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                      That's great in a perfect world. But Pro Sports is all about a competitive advantage. Stick-um, under inflated balls, taping practices, circumventing the salary cap, etc......... It's been a part of this game for decades and will continue for decades more. It's just what's the next "advantage" to be taken.
                      You must be talking about the Pats because they have done all of those things.

                      I suspect if you dig deep enough u will see salary cap issues, in some manner of another.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                        Read what I actually wrote. I agree with him giving kids a good strong message about good sportsmanship. But my point is that message could still be done without going into specifics of this team or that team or this player and that player.

                        And u don't know what "we" do inside the locker room, the huddles, and within the confines of Dove Valley. We like to hope there's no shenanigans, but u never know. So to name drop the Pats and Brady could prove to be foolish. What does he say if it's Something fishy with PM after this season?
                        Maybe you should read the article again...

                        When Sanders was asked by a camper if he was mad about the scandal, he said, according to NBC 9News, "Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of mad. I don't think that they [New England] should be the Super Bowl champion this year."
                        It's kind of hard to respond to a question about the Patriots*** cheating without mentioning the Patriots***.

                        If we get caught cheating then I would feel the same way if other players around the league had an opinion on it. I would not expect them to keep their views to themselves and not try to teach young kids who play the game, to play it with integrity.
                        sigpic

                        Defense wins championships

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by DarkHorse26 View Post
                          integrity.
                          The magic word that few folks have anymore.

                          More feel entitled.
                          Last edited by Garfield; 06-26-2015, 04:39 PM.

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                          • #28
                            I just keep liking Manny Sanders more and more as time passes.
                            The beatings will continue until morale improves....

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Garfield View Post
                              You must be talking about the Pats because they have done all of those things.

                              I suspect if you dig deep enough u will see salary cap issues, in some manner of another.
                              I'm referencing all teams past, present, and future. Every team has some form of "gaining a competitive advantage" in their past. None are perfect. And I'm sure even in ES past, we may find some skeletons in that closet. Be it how he was recruited or anything. "If u ain't cheating, u ain't trying", is an old saying for a reason.
                              #swapping

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by FR Tim
                                I get what you are saying. I just have no issue with Sanders responding to a specific question with his opinion.

                                I have found that kids will tune you out if you try to be too "politically correct" to their questions. I would compare it to when you are watching a Presidential debate and a candidate goes into a practiced response that has little to do with the question. When you hear BS, you tune it out. Kids will too.
                                And I get that. But you can still make an impactful point without naming people. What happens if he's cut then next season he's catching TD passes from Brady? How will those kids view him and that message then? Who's in the late Coker next to you in the NFl changes quite often. So yes PC is always the best option.
                                #swapping

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