Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Broncos tag Von Miller

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Chillez
    replied
    I think eventually Denver gets long term deal done with Miller, he will likey retire as Bronco or play majority of his prime years here. It's hard to let generational talent go no matter how much money he wants.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonny_Quest
    replied
    Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
    Since we don't know what is on the table, then it is hard to know what he is saying no to; however, knowing Elway, I can't fathom the deal being less than Houston deal. That deal had 32M in guarantee...that amount by itself would = security. It also pays out 65M over the 1st 3 years of the contract. Offering anything above those number is Elway doing VM a solid. If Miller wants more, he is putting Denver in a bad position and makes a 2 year 31M double franchise tag ultra appealing.

    This is on VM, franchise tag for better or worse is a part of the CBA and affects the true cost of guys like VM. 17M AAV (more than Houston) and 50M guaranteed is where the line should be drawn.
    Couldn't agree more.

    Wanting to be paid as much or more than Suh is pure ego on his part. Probably doesn't help that he has a self-serving agent constantly stoking the fires of that ego.

    That's why I'm hoping he cools off between now and July 15th.

    Leave a comment:


  • MHSalute
    replied
    Originally posted by Jonny_Quest View Post

    Franchised players usually sit out of training camp because they don't want to risk getting injured. They're going to be annoyed about not having a deal, and that means they'll be venting to other players about it. The press are also going to be talking about it constantly, especially with a player as high-profile as Von. It's a huge distraction.


    Since we don't know what is on the table, then it is hard to know what he is saying no to; however, knowing Elway, I can't fathom the deal being less than Houston deal. That deal had 32M in guarantee...that amount by itself would = security. It also pays out 65M over the 1st 3 years of the contract. Offering anything above those number is Elway doing VM a solid. If Miller wants more, he is putting Denver in a bad position and makes a 2 year 31M double franchise tag ultra appealing.

    This is on VM, franchise tag for better or worse is a part of the CBA and affects the true cost of guys like VM. 17M AAV (more than Houston) and 50M guaranteed is where the line should be drawn.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jonny_Quest
    replied
    Franchising Von multiple years in a row sounds good on paper but I think it would hurt us a lot more than it would help us.

    Franchised players usually sit out of training camp because they don't want to risk getting injured. They're going to be annoyed about not having a deal, and that means they'll be venting to other players about it. The press are also going to be talking about it constantly, especially with a player as high-profile as Von. It's a huge distraction.

    I think we have to get a deal done before July 15th because locker room chemistry is a huge part of what makes this team go.

    I'm totally in BSB2010's camp. Tying up too much money in a few players is a recipe for disaster. We seriously dropped the ball on DT's contract. Signing Von to Suh type numbers could sink us in the long term. I still think we have to sign him, though.

    I'm hoping Von's bloodlust for the ULTIMATE CONTRACT will cool off by July 15th and we'll get something more akin to Houston's contract. The other thing we have going for us is that this FO drafts extremely well. If we continue to do that, we can survive this and the train wreck that is DT's contract.

    Leave a comment:


  • uknflfan
    replied
    Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    I'm going to guess he he wants $19.5M/year and $65M guaranteed.
    He probably does want that, but he isn't going to get it. There is just no reason to sign him to that contract given the franchise numbers for the next couple of years. I think when it comes down to it, Von will take a slightly lesser deal when he is faced with the choice of having to play under the tag or sign long term.

    I think the numbers will surpass the Houston deal, but will not reach Suh's. Somewhere between $17-18M/yr,

    Leave a comment:


  • uknflfan
    replied
    Originally posted by AussieBronco76 View Post
    Agreed and the absolute leverage lies with Von right at this moment due to him being the SB 50 MVP. But assuming we lose MJ and Demarcus this off season I want to see how Von stacks up and how much Progress we see in Ray and how Shaq Barrett comes on with more game time.

    By then leverage comes back the Broncos way.Yes Von would be a big loss but $20 Million a year without the long term weight of huge guaranteed money AKA DT will be a big gain also.
    I don't really agree. I think the Broncos currently hold the best leverage they will ever have with Von due to the franchise tag. They can tag him at $14M this year and then around $18M next year - that gives them enormous leverage. That leverage will decrease each season as the franchise number increases, as well as the cap. That's why I hope they get a long term deal done this offseason.

    Leave a comment:


  • AussieBronco76
    replied
    Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    I would franchise tag Von this year and next and then re-evaluate......he wants to be the highest paid defensive player. Right now that is Suh at $19M.....

    Revis wanted to be highest paid
    Suh wanted to be highest paid
    Haynesworth wanted to be highest paid


    were they worth it?


    I'm not arguing that we shouldn't keep Von...I am arguing that he isn't worth whatever it takes to keep him. He had an average season followed up by 2 very good games in the playoffs...that doesn't add up to highest paid in the league, imo. $17M/$50M guaranteed is all I would do.

    Von Miller is NOT the best defensive player in the league. He shouldn't be paid like he is.

    Agreed and the absolute leverage lies with Von right at this moment due to him being the SB 50 MVP. But assuming we lose MJ and Demarcus this off season I want to see how Von stacks up and how much Progress we see in Ray and how Shaq Barrett comes on with more game time.

    By then leverage comes back the Broncos way.Yes Von would be a big loss but $20 Million a year without the long term weight of huge guaranteed money AKA DT will be a big gain also.
    Last edited by AussieBronco76; 03-01-2016, 11:21 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncos SB2010
    replied
    Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
    Do you honestly think there is not 50M guaranteed on the table at this point? Lets stop with the "security" argument. Not like he was tagged without an offer.
    I'm going to guess he he wants $19.5M/year and $65M guaranteed.

    Leave a comment:


  • MHSalute
    replied
    Originally posted by flosstein View Post
    Remember it's not the money of the F-Tag that's the issue. It's the lack of security. And guys playing under the F-Tag isn't as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Odds are he'll miss OTA's, mini-camp, and most (if not all) of T/C. Then he'll come back and half-play it to avoid getting hurt. Now as a GM, you have a major dilemma. Go through that painful ordeal, that wrecks team chemistry and affects the locker room, for a SECOND season at a higher price? Or cut your losses and let a future HOF caliber player get paid his earned salary somewhere else? OR just pay the man and rely on great scouting keep a solid inexpensive team around those players. This is the price of having too tier players


    That's why I hate the tag. It's been proven to cause more hurt with big time players than help.
    Do you honestly think there is not 50M guaranteed on the table at this point? Lets stop with the "security" argument. Not like he was tagged without an offer.

    Leave a comment:


  • broncos SB2010
    replied
    Originally posted by Justblaze2729 View Post
    Brock isn't getting 20 million and the Broncos arent trading for a QB worth 20 million so a rookie that becomes a star is the only chance of that happening which at the very least is 5 years away.

    Von isn't getting 20 mill. Highest paid very likely.(17-18 mill imo) If you're not paying Von then who would you personally pay? Malik would be out of the question, the guy wants 15 million for 6 sacks a year. 3 more mill and you get a Superbowl MVP with 16 sack potential.
    I would franchise tag Von this year and next and then re-evaluate......he wants to be the highest paid defensive player. Right now that is Suh at $19M.....

    Revis wanted to be highest paid
    Suh wanted to be highest paid
    Haynesworth wanted to be highest paid


    were they worth it?


    I'm not arguing that we shouldn't keep Von...I am arguing that he isn't worth whatever it takes to keep him. He had an average season followed up by 2 very good games in the playoffs...that doesn't add up to highest paid in the league, imo. $17M/$50M guaranteed is all I would do.

    Von Miller is NOT the best defensive player in the league. He shouldn't be paid like he is.
    Last edited by broncos SB2010; 03-01-2016, 07:29 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • flosstein
    replied
    Originally posted by Rancid View Post
    Another way I thought about this is Von plays next season as a 27-year old for +/- $14-M.

    The Broncos franchise him for the 2017 season too and he makes +$15-M as a 28-year old.

    They release him after that and unless he played like he did in the playoffs this season his value slips a little as a 29-year old who has maybe 3-5 season left? Of which, he gets far less than $15-M per year-- maybe $12?

    The Broncos end up paying him close to $30-M for arguably his two best remaining years of football and then when he loses a step someone else overpays for him.

    It seems like DeMarcus Ware might be a good model to look at.

    If I am Miller, I have to think about that because I am on top of the world at the moment, but in the long run I could cost myself some big money.
    Remember it's not the money of the F-Tag that's the issue. It's the lack of security. And guys playing under the F-Tag isn't as cut and dry as you make it out to be. Odds are he'll miss OTA's, mini-camp, and most (if not all) of T/C. Then he'll come back and half-play it to avoid getting hurt. Now as a GM, you have a major dilemma. Go through that painful ordeal, that wrecks team chemistry and affects the locker room, for a SECOND season at a higher price? Or cut your losses and let a future HOF caliber player get paid his earned salary somewhere else? OR just pay the man and rely on great scouting keep a solid inexpensive team around those players. This is the price of having too tier players


    That's why I hate the tag. It's been proven to cause more hurt with big time players than help.

    Leave a comment:


  • Justblaze2729
    replied
    Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    unless it's a rookie...it's $20M for a QB....

    i'm just one of the vast minority here that thinks it's just bad policy to make guys on the team the highest paid in the league. And again....the talk of Miller being so great he is worth anything is over rated.
    Brock isn't getting 20 million and the Broncos arent trading for a QB worth 20 million so a rookie that becomes a star is the only chance of that happening which at the very least is 5 years away.

    Von isn't getting 20 mill. Highest paid very likely.(17-18 mill imo) If you're not paying Von then who would you personally pay? Malik would be out of the question, the guy wants 15 million for 6 sacks a year. 3 more mill and you get a Superbowl MVP with 16 sack potential.

    Leave a comment:


  • Rancid
    replied
    Another way I thought about this is Von plays next season as a 27-year old for +/- $14-M.

    The Broncos franchise him for the 2017 season too and he makes +$15-M as a 28-year old.

    They release him after that and unless he played like he did in the playoffs this season his value slips a little as a 29-year old who has maybe 3-5 season left? Of which, he gets far less than $15-M per year-- maybe $12?

    The Broncos end up paying him close to $30-M for arguably his two best remaining years of football and then when he loses a step someone else overpays for him.

    It seems like DeMarcus Ware might be a good model to look at.

    If I am Miller, I have to think about that because I am on top of the world at the moment, but in the long run I could cost myself some big money.

    Leave a comment:


  • EddieMac
    replied
    Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
    unless it's a rookie...it's $20M for a QB....

    i'm just one of the vast minority here that thinks it's just bad policy to make guys on the team the highest paid in the league. And again....the talk of Miller being so great he is worth anything is over rated.

    Totally agree. Have a well rounded solid, deep team rather than a superstar and some other guys to support. We need help at a few positions and losing the ability to pay there kills the team.

    That 20 mill a year on Von offsets a lot of coin into a oline that can protect a qb, run block, and therefore the whole o scores more points.

    Von needs to be so mvp Von to keep the scores down by the other team and let other positions suffer. That isn't likely.

    That being said....I realllllllly want to keep Von...

    Leave a comment:


  • broncos SB2010
    replied
    Originally posted by Justblaze2729 View Post
    I think it's a foregone conclusion to most that Von will be the highest paid defensive player in the NFL and 95 percent of Broncos fans want him to remain a Bronco.

    Also, franchise QBs don't grow on trees. Even if the Broncos are lucky enough to find one, Vons contract will be on the back end once it's time to pay said franchise QB.
    unless it's a rookie...it's $20M for a QB....

    i'm just one of the vast minority here that thinks it's just bad policy to make guys on the team the highest paid in the league. And again....the talk of Miller being so great he is worth anything is over rated.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X