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Von Seeking $22M Per Year Under New Contract

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  • #61
    Originally posted by EddieMac View Post
    If that's what he wants, and socks too it, I say 3x tag him and then move on.. That'll average out to less than 20 and we get the prime years..... I. Love me some VM but the team can't be crippled with his salary with DT's massive one and an inevitable large QB salary coming in the near future.. ( unless we get a great one on a rookie deal )
    The salary cap keeps going up, we supposedly have a ton of space next year, and players like Ware won't be around much longer. I'd be ok with keeping him at 21 per.

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    • #62
      this is a simple solution. let him play the year out on the tag then reevaluate after the season. He may have a great year, he may have an average year. I would bet on average year.
      sigpic

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      • #63
        It is amazing how much everyone loved von when he delivered the broncos a Super Bowl and now he wants to be paid like a Super Bowl MVP and people think we just just get rid of him. You don't let Von walk... he will not being going anywhere... this isn't madden, you can't just replace Von with a 7th rounder. He is one of the best defensive players in the NFL and has the attitude the broncos need.

        If Von goes he takes our dominate defense with him because no player on our defense is as big of a game changer as him. No he isn't JJ Watt but he is pretty close. Just watch and see how chiefs D is with houston out for the year and we can get a similar idea of what would happen to the broncos good or bad.
        sigpic
        "I'm scared if I stop all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."

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        • #64
          Originally posted by johntbronco View Post
          Oh god....

          I was afraid of this.
          I hate to say it because I LOVE Von Miller.
          I think the Broncos were willing to pony up 18-19 million per year.
          Now he thinks he wants 22 million, which I think some team WILL pay that amount.

          The deal is, with 22 million we could get two really good 10-12 million players, or 4-5 million players.
          As much as I hate to say this, we can't afford to do that deal.

          Keep him on franchise tag this year even though it will piss him off and his agent.
          The thing is John is that Von is a rare, once-in-a-generation, very high impact and game-changing player.

          I understand the wish to economize as much as possible but in this game quality trumps quantity. If we could put more than a dozen guys out on the field at once, then yeah I'd say sure- sign cheaper, mediocre-good guys and just overwhelm the opponent, but when only eleven can take the field every position must count for as much as possible. Von equals multiple guys with the big plays he delivers -he's elite- so he actually gives us the most bang for our buck in terms of bottom-line results. Less expensive, medium-good replacements will produce mediocre results, and the defense would miss Von and sink away from its elite level and top rankings.

          I think it would be terrible to dis Von by refusing to pay him what he wants and what he's worth. Then we risk him holding out from OTA's, TC, etc or giving less effort out there because he's mad at the team, leading up to an eventual exit, probably to the Raiders. JDR surely wants him! No thanks, no way!

          I think Elway can structure a deal where he gets more in the following years for getting less this year.

          Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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          • #65
            Originally posted by qbronco View Post
            As Malkovich said in Rounders, "Pay him his money"!!!
            I can actually hear that in my head." Pay the man his money." "All he do is check check check." Great movie.

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            • #66
              This is one of those dilemmas that come along, where you love a player, you know he is worth a pile of money, but at some point you have to negotiate, because a million here, a million there, end up losing another player. I don't believe Von is saying that he must get what he is asking for. He too is negotiating. Typically you come in high, which I think everyone of us knows. You can love someone, do almost anything imaginable to keep him, but you still have to negotiate like businessmen. He and Elway understand that process.

              So whatever he is asking, I would not expect we will pay. If he wants $22M, I know Elway wants to pay less. Nothing shocking. We talk about salary cap a lot around here, and so we should. It's a real science. It is very complex, given you are trying to maximize what you put on the field, but you are constrained by the cap.....and within that formula are a myriad of variables based on position, age, skill, depth, etc.

              The player has an obligation to themselves to make the best deal they can, because their careers are fairly short and they deserve market value, and the GM has an obligation to the owner/team/even the fans, to field the best team possible within the cap.

              In the end, we will get this deal done, and I suspect (as I am sure most of you do too) the end result will be somewhere below Von's "demand" and our initial offer.
              Last edited by CanDB; 03-26-2016, 10:03 AM.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by MHS View Post
                It is amazing how much everyone loved von when he delivered the broncos a Super Bowl and now he wants to be paid like a Super Bowl MVP and people think we just just get rid of him. You don't let Von walk... he will not being going anywhere... this isn't madden, you can't just replace Von with a 7th rounder. He is one of the best defensive players in the NFL and has the attitude the broncos need.

                If Von goes he takes our dominate defense with him because no player on our defense is as big of a game changer as him. No he isn't JJ Watt but he is pretty close. Just watch and see how chiefs D is with houston out for the year and we can get a similar idea of what would happen to the broncos good or bad.
                I think the vast majority want to keep him even at a steep price, will pay extra (that's the key word) to keep him, and expect a well negotiated deal between two business parties. Normal stuff.

                As for JJ, does he make $22M per year?

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                • #68
                  In my opinion, these figures being talked about are unrealistic from Von's point of view.

                  The comparisons to Suh and Vernon are not all that relevant because those guys were able to hit the open market and max out their value. Von won't be able to do that. Yes, he may get $24-25M on the open market, but that is a hypothetical, because the franchise tag means he can't get there. The Watt and Houston contracts are much more relevant, as they were in the same position as Von.

                  At the end of the day, Von will have to make a decision. Either sign a long term deal at around $17-18M that will secure your financial future, or take the risk of being injured by playing under the tag for 2 if not 3 seasons in the hopes of getting to FA. I think when push comes to shove, Von will decide he is better of signing a lesser deal now, because that $22M+ he thinks he is worth, he won't realistically be able to see.
                  2016 San Diego Chargers GM & New York Giants GM - see bio for trade block/needs

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by MHS View Post
                    It is amazing how much everyone loved von when he delivered the broncos a Super Bowl and now he wants to be paid like a Super Bowl MVP and people think we just just get rid of him. You don't let Von walk... he will not being going anywhere... this isn't madden, you can't just replace Von with a 7th rounder. He is one of the best defensive players in the NFL and has the attitude the broncos need.

                    If Von goes he takes our dominate defense with him because no player on our defense is as big of a game changer as him. No he isn't JJ Watt but he is pretty close. Just watch and see how chiefs D is with houston out for the year and we can get a similar idea of what would happen to the broncos good or bad.
                    May be tough on a 7th rounder, if only we had drafted a pass rusher in the 1st last year...

                    Really find this "Von Miller is our defense" stuff a slap in the face for the other guys playing that side of the ball. Without VM, we still have arguably the best secondary in the NFL. We still have a great run defense, possibly still #1.

                    No other game changers? Yup, just a slap in the face.
                    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
                      May be tough on a 7th rounder, if only we had drafted a pass rusher in the 1st last year...

                      Really find this "Von Miller is our defense" stuff a slap in the face for the other guys playing that side of the ball. Without VM, we still have arguably the best secondary in the NFL. We still have a great run defense, possibly still #1.

                      No other game changers? Yup, just a slap in the face.

                      I don't think Von is the defense, I just think he's one of the most important players on the team.

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                        This is one of those dilemmas that come along, where you love a player, you know he is worth a pile of money, but at some point you have to negotiate, because a million here, a million there, end up losing another player. I don't believe Von is saying that he must get what he is asking for. He too is negotiating. Typically you come in high, which I think everyone of us knows. You can love someone, do almost anything imaginable to keep him, but you still have to negotiate like businessmen. He and Elway understand that process.

                        So whatever he is asking, I would not expect we will pay. If he wants $22M, I know Elway wants to pay less. Nothing shocking. We talk about salary cap a lot around here, and so we should. It's a real science. It is very complex, given you are trying to maximize what you put on the field, but you are constrained by the cap.....and within that formula are a myriad of variables based on position, age, skill, depth, etc.

                        The player has an obligation to themselves to make the best deal they can, because their careers are fairly short and they deserve market value, and the GM has an obligation to the owner/team/even the fans, to field the best team possible within the cap.

                        In the end, we will get this deal done, and I suspect (as I am sure most of you do too) the end result will be somewhere below Von's "demand" and our initial offer.
                        I'm guessing 20-21.

                        The cap has been increasing by an average of $10M a year in the last four - by $12 this year. The big signings this offseason will surely continue the trend so I'm certain we'll have enough space to sign our needs even though he eats up a fair chunk of it.

                        Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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                        • #72
                          I think you have to look at the state of the current team with him tagged at 14 mill to get a clear picture of this moving toward. Lets pretend clady doesn't exist and we shift his salary to von to put von at 24 mill. Our highest paid QB is making 5 mill along with our highest paid o-lineman. Our team as is doesn't seem complete. We managed to find over achieving budget players for several positions but we wont be able to keep these guys moving toward.

                          The teams that are consistently great in the NFL don't significantly overpay any one player. What made us great this year was being able to afford multiple elite corners lineman and linebackers something we wont do if we over pay one player.

                          Reasonably von miller should be paid like Richard Sherman Justin Houston jj watt cornerstone players for their defenses. But not like a franchise QB.

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                          • #73
                            If nothing else, just as in the Brock salary discussion, I find this interesting stuff. It gives us a chance at being "GMs". And being a GM is not about how much they love a player, or how good he is, but setting a proper contract that will; satisfy the player and his agent; respect the player's value; fit within the confines of the overall budget/team resourcing....which does have a cap. It's business 101, and I find it intriguing how the thought process works, especially if you were the guy wearing The GM hat.

                            I have called Von MIller the face of the Broncos. Some disagree. But regardless, I want him back long term....but at a price that makes some sense. Again, normal stuff. It will get done.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
                              I'm guessing 20-21.

                              The cap has been increasing by an average of $10M a year in the last four - by $12 this year. The big signings this offseason will surely continue the trend so I'm certain we'll have enough space to sign our needs even though he eats up a fair chunk of it.
                              LM......I started at $19M, but sure, 20 or 21 is possible. I was trying to compare salaries, but I didn't spend a lot of time at it. It's the old story, you benchmark. Take all the top Dmen and see what the best players are making. You consider the salary trends. You factor in age, potential, health and other factors. No doubt Von is on the top of the mountain as we speak. He deserves big coin. The only question is, how much is too much?

                              This deal will get done. And it will be fun to look back to see who guessed correctly.

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                              • #75
                                I'm not even trying to play GM. I just look at the history of teams which have sustainable success and those teams do not pay non-franchise QBs more than 8% of their cap, they spread the wealth around. 8% of 160M (next years cap) =12.8M. Would I go 15M for a special talent like Von, sure I would, I am a fan. Will that strap us? History says yes.

                                At the end of the day I want us to continue to be a perennial playoff team, so I vote on the side of history. If any fans can show me how paying above that threshold has helped teams win...I am all ears.
                                Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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