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Von Seeking $22M Per Year Under New Contract

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  • #76
    Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
    May be tough on a 7th rounder, if only we had drafted a pass rusher in the 1st last year...

    Really find this "Von Miller is our defense" stuff a slap in the face for the other guys playing that side of the ball. Without VM, we still have arguably the best secondary in the NFL. We still have a great run defense, possibly still #1.

    No other game changers? Yup, just a slap in the face.
    There's no reason to interpret it this way so as to be offended.

    We just lost a couple of impact guys, and that will surely make a difference, but if Von left that would leave a glaring hole. The secondary -as great as it is- can't carry this team, and they profit from an effective pass rush led by Von. He is just a critically-important part of the whole, and has been since he got here. He was clearly and sorely missed in SB 48, and the biggest factor in SB 50.

    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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    • #77
      Originally posted by CanDB View Post
      LM......I started at $19M, but sure, 20 or 21 is possible. I was trying to compare salaries, but I didn't spend a lot of time at it. It's the old story, you benchmark. Take all the top Dmen and see what the best players are making. You consider the salary trends. You factor in age, potential, health and other factors. No doubt Von is on the top of the mountain as we speak. He deserves big coin. The only question is, how much is too much?

      This deal will get done. And it will be fun to look back to see who guessed correctly.
      Von has been set on being "the highest paid" defender in the League -that's been known since the SB so this latest news is no shock.

      Therefore if he's going to be happy, the contract will have to better than Suh's -the current highest paid defender. Here's Suh's contract:

      http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dol...ndamukong-suh/

      Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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      • #78
        CHJ, Wolfe, and VM were all missed in SB 48, yet we held SD and the Pats to 17 and 16 points. They were the #5 and 7 offenses in the NFL that year. So, I am not going to subscribe to the notion that without VM we do not have a dominating defense, because Ware, Ward, JStew, Talib, Wolfe, and CHJ are all upgrades to what we had in 2013.

        Yes we lost MJ and Trev, losing VM would sting, but the guys left are still really good. We can win without VM, this is factual not opinion.
        Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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        • #79
          Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
          May be tough on a 7th rounder, if only we had drafted a pass rusher in the 1st last year...

          Really find this "Von Miller is our defense" stuff a slap in the face for the other guys playing that side of the ball. Without VM, we still have arguably the best secondary in the NFL. We still have a great run defense, possibly still #1.

          No other game changers? Yup, just a slap in the face.
          Yes we draft one to replace Ware, which is what is happening this year. Also just because you draft one doesn't mean he can replace Miller... Ray and Barrett have shown potential but not proven they can fill von and ware's shoes if both somehow are gone.

          Also broncos can't just let every single high priced player leave. It is a lot harder to replace franchise players... once again this isn't madden. Broncos could draft a pass rusher in the first round for the next 5 years and still never find another von miller.

          And i stand by my point that Von miller is the difference maker on defense. That doesn't not mean there are not other great/elite players but Von is on a different level. Chris Harris is an elite player but i would argue a top 5 pass rusher is more important than a top 5 CB (i remember watching champ get crushed some games because there was zero pass rush)

          Von Miller is the most important player on the defense and it is not even close. So call it a slap in the face or whatever you want but there is not a defensive player i would keep over Von and Harris on the broncos roster.
          sigpic
          "I'm scared if I stop all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."

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          • #80
            Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
            Von has been set on being "the highest paid" defender in the League -that's been known since the SB so this latest news is no shock.

            Therefore if he's going to be happy, the contract will have to better than Suh's -the current highest paid defender. Here's Suh's contract:

            http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dol...ndamukong-suh/
            Suh hit the open market and was therefore able to max out his value. Due to the franchise tag, Von won't be able to hit the market and therefore won't be able to max out his value. I don't believe the Suh contract is nearly as relevant as people think. The Watt and Houston contracts are far more relevant, as both those players were in the same position as Von, in that they were not able to get to the open market. Both are better players than Suh, but both signed lesser deals.

            It's all about leverage, and the Broncos have the leverage of the tag. If Von really wants to see a massive contract, he will have to play out at least 2 if not 3 seasons on the tag; that's a heck of a lot of risk to take on. I see him signing a much more reasonable deal that will give him financial security, whilst still surpassing the Watt and Houston deals.
            2016 San Diego Chargers GM & New York Giants GM - see bio for trade block/needs

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            • #81
              I think us re signing von leads to trading DT which is something I can live with.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
                CHJ, Wolfe, and VM were all missed in SB 48, yet we held SD and the Pats to 17 and 16 points. They were the #5 and 7 offenses in the NFL that year. So, I am not going to subscribe to the notion that without VM we do not have a dominating defense, because Ware, Ward, JStew, Talib, Wolfe, and CHJ are all upgrades to what we had in 2013.

                Yes we lost MJ and Trev, losing VM would sting, but the guys left are still really good. We can win without VM, this is factual not opinion.
                That is absolutely not factual... there is a reason you let guys like MJ and Trev walk and that is to keep players like Von. It is the same strategy the steelers and ravens have used that has kept them relevant for so long. They identify the players to build around and keep them. The rest they use until they find their replacement.
                sigpic
                "I'm scared if I stop all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by MHS View Post

                  Also broncos can't just let every single high priced player leave. It is a lot harder to replace franchise players... once again this isn't madden. Broncos could draft a pass rusher in the first round for the next 5 years and still never find another von miller.
                  Don't need a VM to win. Who does Seattle have as a pass rusher? Who does NE have at pass rusher? Besides QB, Seattle has 1 guy costing more than 10M vs the cap; NE has 1 guy above 10M.

                  Without VM, what would you rank our defense?
                  Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by MHS View Post
                    That is absolutely not factual... there is a reason you let guys like MJ and Trev walk and that is to keep players like Von. It is the same strategy the steelers and ravens have used that has kept them relevant for so long. They identify the players to build around and keep them. The rest they use until they find their replacement.
                    It is factual as 31 other NFL teams win games without VM on their roster.
                    Ravens GM 2016 - Ravens are looking to trade down 4-8 spots

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
                      I think us re signing von leads to trading DT which is something I can live with.
                      I don't think it leads to that at all. Broncos can afford both players if the deals are structured right. Broncos just need to do what they did with Harris and Wolfe... set it up with a cheaper first year and then spread it out in a manner where the later years don't have huge dead cap hits.

                      If anyone can negotiate it Elway is that man. He is absolutely great and structuring deals so they don't hurt the team long term.
                      sigpic
                      "I'm scared if I stop all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
                        It is factual as 31 other NFL teams win games without VM on their roster.
                        yes but the team with Von Miller just won the Super Bowl... and he was the best player on that Super Bowl winning team.
                        sigpic
                        "I'm scared if I stop all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
                          Von has been set on being "the highest paid" defender in the League -that's been known since the SB so this latest news is no shock.

                          Therefore if he's going to be happy, the contract will have to better than Suh's -the current highest paid defender. Here's Suh's contract:

                          http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dol...ndamukong-suh/
                          Good info. About $19M annually. I think it was a little high, given the possibilities on the open market. But a good comparison point. JJ's is less. Not saying it shouldn't be higher.

                          So this is where I like to go with things:
                          1) What's the going rate for the top 5 or so Defenders in football? Von fits in that salary scale.
                          2) Upgrade based on salary trend
                          3) Determine where Von will be x number of years from now.....if he is not declining, pay him as long term as you expect his play to be top tier, which should keep the average annual dollars down from a shorter contract
                          4) Carefully assess the cost of paying the entire team going forward, given the standards we want to maintain (that's regular cap/resource management stuff)

                          So.....I do say pay the man.....in a business thought out way.

                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by MHSalute View Post
                            CHJ, Wolfe, and VM were all missed in SB 48, yet we held SD and the Pats to 17 and 16 points. They were the #5 and 7 offenses in the NFL that year. So, I am not going to subscribe to the notion that without VM we do not have a dominating defense, because Ware, Ward, JStew, Talib, Wolfe, and CHJ are all upgrades to what we had in 2013.

                            Yes we lost MJ and Trev, losing VM would sting, but the guys left are still really good. We can win without VM, this is factual not opinion.
                            Nothing is a fact until proven so. We would have to lose Von first, then see what happens. I predict that our defense would be diminished, not dominant and #1, as if they wouldn't miss a beat without him! 2013 D was not dominant (please watch the Cowboys game) and some of the opposition was subpar even in the playoffs. Down year for Von but when he was in, he still showed flashes of his ability like the wrecking ball performance @NE in the first half.

                            Great defenses had core players that made it great and perpetuated that. As much as I dislike Ray Lewis and the Ratbirds, that's a prime example of a guy at the center of several great units over a decade plus span, and Von holds this potential too.

                            Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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                            • #89
                              22M per year doesn't really mean a whole lot. The Broncos can do a long term, very long term deal that could equal at least close to 22M per year but it will ultimately depend on the guaranteed money. I'm not sure what guaranteed money would be considered competitive but here is an example of what could possibly be structured ...

                              7 year deal for ~150M = 21.5M per year. Structure could be 35M signing bonus with 60M guaranteed, that would be 7M a year for 5 years on the cap when spreading out the signing bonus. They could pay him a salary of 5M in the first year = 12M cap hit, 8M in the second year = 15M cap hit, 12M in the 3rd = 19M cap hit. After 3 years that takes care of the guaranteed money (60M) and now leaves 90M over 4 years to pay = 22.5M per year, none of that guaranteed. At that point the Broncos can decide whether he is really worth 22.5M each year or cut ties with 7M dead money per year left over 2 years, or if it is accelerated it would be 14M of dead cap money for one year.
                              I don't know for sure whether that is a realistic contract but seems it can be in the ball park of reality and it would be cheaper than a tag for at least the first 2 years of it and it comes close to 22M per year.
                              sigpic

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by CanDB View Post
                                Good info. About $19M annually. I think it was a little high, given the possibilities on the open market. But a good comparison point. JJ's is less. Not saying it shouldn't be higher.

                                So this is where I like to go with things:
                                1) What's the going rate for the top 5 or so Defenders in football? Von fits in that salary scale.
                                2) Upgrade based on salary trend
                                3) Determine where Von will be x number of years from now.....if he is not declining, pay him as long term as you expect his play to be top tier, which should keep the average annual dollars down from a shorter contract
                                4) Carefully assess the cost of paying the entire team going forward, given the standards we want to maintain (that's regular cap/resource management stuff)

                                So.....I do say pay the man.....in a business thought out way.
                                Agreed. Von Miller will be the highest paid defensive player when all said and done. I am not saying he is the best player in the NFL and should be paid 22-25 mil but contracts go up every year and you know Von and his agent is going to leverage Oliver Vernon getting a deal averaging out to 17 mil a year when he is nowhere near on the same level.

                                With that said John Elway is the man and will get something worked out that is fair for both sides.
                                sigpic
                                "I'm scared if I stop all at once, the cumulative hangover will literally kill me."

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