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Von Seeking $22M Per Year Under New Contract

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  • #91
    Originally posted by uknflfan View Post
    Suh hit the open market and was therefore able to max out his value. Due to the franchise tag, Von won't be able to hit the market and therefore won't be able to max out his value. I don't believe the Suh contract is nearly as relevant as people think. The Watt and Houston contracts are far more relevant, as both those players were in the same position as Von, in that they were not able to get to the open market. Both are better players than Suh, but both signed lesser deals.

    It's all about leverage, and the Broncos have the leverage of the tag. If Von really wants to see a massive contract, he will have to play out at least 2 if not 3 seasons on the tag; that's a heck of a lot of risk to take on. I see him signing a much more reasonable deal that will give him financial security, whilst still surpassing the Watt and Houston deals.
    Obviously Suh's deal is relevant to Miller's agent as the jump off point to this $22M figure! And perhaps the way that deal is structured is also relevant, to both camps so the Broncos don't have shell out so much dough all at once. I have no idea how much actual goodwill, generosity and faith Elway has in Miller's continued success and place in the organization toward giving him a record-breaking deal. Superficially to the press, a lot. We'll see.

    Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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    • #92
      Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
      The thing is John is that Von is a rare, once-in-a-generation, very high impact and game-changing player.

      I understand the wish to economize as much as possible but in this game quality trumps quantity. If we could put more than a dozen guys out on the field at once, then yeah I'd say sure- sign cheaper, mediocre-good guys and just overwhelm the opponent, but when only eleven can take the field every position must count for as much as possible. Von equals multiple guys with the big plays he delivers -he's elite- so he actually gives us the most bang for our buck in terms of bottom-line results. Less expensive, medium-good replacements will produce mediocre results, and the defense would miss Von and sink away from its elite level and top rankings.

      I think it would be terrible to dis Von by refusing to pay him what he wants and what he's worth. Then we risk him holding out from OTA's, TC, etc or giving less effort out there because he's mad at the team, leading up to an eventual exit, probably to the Raiders. JDR surely wants him! No thanks, no way!

      I think Elway can structure a deal where he gets more in the following years for getting less this year.
      at $22M...that is $5M more than the current highest paid OLB....33% more than that player gets. Is he worth that? no. Did he have a dominant season? no. Did he have a dominant playoff run? yes...against weak OT. Mark my words...Von will have a pretty average season this year and his price will fall.
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      • #93
        Originally posted by MHS View Post
        I don't think it leads to that at all. Broncos can afford both players if the deals are structured right. Broncos just need to do what they did with Harris and Wolfe... set it up with a cheaper first year and then spread it out in a manner where the later years don't have huge dead cap hits.

        If anyone can negotiate it Elway is that man. He is absolutely great and structuring deals so they don't hurt the team long term.
        Reason I say that is when you consider who we are paying and who we will have to pay the WR position just gets knocked down lower than the rest. The only reason I think he is still on the team right now is because his trade value is at its lowest. He has a great year next year I see us trading him and extending sanders at 6m which is what he is currently making vs paying DT 12m. Especially if we become more run oriented anyways.

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        • #94
          Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
          Obviously Suh's deal is relevant to Miller's agent as the jump off point to this $22M figure! And perhaps the way that deal is structured is also relevant, to both camps so the Broncos don't have shell out so much dough all at once. I have no idea how much actual goodwill, generosity and faith Elway has in Miller's continued success and place in the organization toward giving him a record-breaking deal. Superficially to the press, a lot. We'll see.
          Suh's contract has some relevance, just not nearly as much as people seem to think, IMO. The relevance it does have is probably more to do with the structure and 3 year payout.

          As for that $22M figure, where has that even come from? I don't think it has much relevance to a discussion of what Von will actually sign for. He can say he wants $22M all he wants, it doesn't mean he'll get it. All of what is said with regards to these types of negotiations is just posturing and trying to play the media.

          Is it possible that Von will hold out for that figure? I suppose it is, but in my view it's very unlikely he will, for the reasons I have stated. The bottom line is, it's not in his interests to hold out for that kind of a deal.
          2016 San Diego Chargers GM & New York Giants GM - see bio for trade block/needs

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          • #95
            Originally posted by brianmcfarlane View Post
            22M per year doesn't really mean a whole lot. The Broncos can do a long term, very long term deal that could equal at least close to 22M per year but it will ultimately depend on the guaranteed money. I'm not sure what guaranteed money would be considered competitive but here is an example of what could possibly be structured ...

            7 year deal for ~150M = 21.5M per year. Structure could be 35M signing bonus with 60M guaranteed, that would be 7M a year for 5 years on the cap when spreading out the signing bonus. They could pay him a salary of 5M in the first year = 12M cap hit, 8M in the second year = 15M cap hit, 12M in the 3rd = 19M cap hit. After 3 years that takes care of the guaranteed money (60M) and now leaves 90M over 4 years to pay = 22.5M per year, none of that guaranteed. At that point the Broncos can decide whether he is really worth 22.5M each year or cut ties with 7M dead money per year left over 2 years, or if it is accelerated it would be 14M of dead cap money for one year.
            I don't know for sure whether that is a realistic contract but seems it can be in the ball park of reality and it would be cheaper than a tag for at least the first 2 years of it and it comes close to 22M per year.
            Agreed.....guaranteed money is always a significant factor in the discussion. I have kept this at an "average annual" level because it seems easier for most of us to talk to, but you make a valid point. In simple terms, I like the AA approach, if we make the assumption that the players being compared are top tier, and expected to keep playing quality ball for the next 5 or more seasons.

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            • #96
              Originally posted by MHS View Post
              That is absolutely not factual... there is a reason you let guys like MJ and Trev walk and that is to keep players like Von. It is the same strategy the steelers and ravens have used that has kept them relevant for so long. They identify the players to build around and keep them. The rest they use until they find their replacement.
              neither one of those teams is currently paying any player, besides a QB an excessive amount of $. The highest paid for Steelers is Cameron Heyward at $10.5M. For the Ravens, it is Jimmy Smith at $10.2M/year.

              You are right...this is an excellent way to go.
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              • #97
                Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                at $22M...that is $5M more than the current highest paid OLB....33% more than that player gets. Is he worth that? no. Did he have a dominant season? no. Did he have a dominant playoff run? yes...against weak OT. Mark my words...Von will have a pretty average season this year and his price will fall.
                Well I would be willing to bookmark this and do a CP bet with you about it but I don't think we can agree about the standards and benchmarks for "dominant" and "average".

                I don't think it's fair to look at some some superficial stats like sack totals and form a judgement from them and say he had a "bad year" compared to 2012. We had lots of playmakers on this unit last season so the wealth of big plays was spread out more. Additionally, Von was double-teamed a lot and let's face it -held quite a lot, ridiculously so game after game!

                And I wouldn't judge his exemplary play as caused by weak OT's -seriously!? Are you trying to suggest that Von isn't really a talented beast, just an average player profiting off of bad OT's!?


                Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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                • #98
                  Originally posted by Houshmazode View Post
                  That's what I'm afraid of. Too bad we didn't trade DT for a king's ransom when his value was high. Maybe we even tried. No player in the leagues' value is as high as Von's right now.
                  You can't trade a player who doesn't have a valid contract. The Broncos could have wanted to trade Thomas last year or Miller this year, but if those players don't want to go to the location that you're trying to trade them, you can't trade them, because they need to sign the franchise tag or another contract for it to be able to happen.

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                  • #99
                    Some of the posters in this thread act like they're paying Von with their own money lol.

                    He was the Super Bowl MVP, he is going to get paid.

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                    • Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
                      Well I would be willing to bookmark this and do a CP bet with you about it but I don't think we can agree about the standards and benchmarks for "dominant" and "average".

                      I don't think it's fair to look at some some superficial stats like sack totals and form a judgement from them and say he had a "bad year" compared to 2012. We had lots of playmakers on this unit last season so the wealth of big plays was spread out more. Additionally, Von was double-teamed a lot and let's face it -held quite a lot, ridiculously so game after game!

                      And I wouldn't judge his exemplary play as caused by weak OT's -seriously!? Are you trying to suggest that Von isn't really a talented beast, just an average player profiting off of bad OT's!?

                      I'll take your bet. Make any requirements for that you deem fair and I'll agree to it. I trust you

                      I'm not trying to say Von is not talented...just his playoff hype is a little over rated and doesn't make him the best player in the league.
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                      • Originally posted by Broncos-R-Great View Post
                        Some of the posters in this thread act like they're paying Von with their own money lol.

                        He was the Super Bowl MVP, he is going to get paid.
                        doesn't mean they have to make him the highest paid player in the league......
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                        • Originally posted by broncos SB2010 View Post
                          I'm not trying to say Von is not talented...just his playoff hype is a little over rated and doesn't make him the best player in the league.
                          Hype is what's said about someone. The plays themselves with their bottom-line results and final outcome speak volumes about the value of his contribution here without any need to say a word.










                          That's not even all of them but enough to illustrate the point. He played an instrumental role in our acquisition of a third Lombardi and they awarded him the MVP. That isn't hype, it's history.
                          Last edited by L.M.; 03-26-2016, 01:54 PM.

                          Superbowl 50 MVP Von Miller on February 7th, 2016

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                          • Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
                            Hype is what's said about someone. The plays themselves with their bottom-line results and final outcome speak volumes about the value of his contribution here without any need to say a word.










                            That's not even all of them but enough to illustrate the point. He played an instrumental role in our acquisition of a third Lombardi and they awarded him the MVP. That isn't hype, it's history.
                            Nobody in the NFL gets off the ball as fast as Miller. That first step kills. That's why the 40 isn't really as relevant to me when it comes to pass rushers. Look at a ton of players that have come through the combine, and you may see some differences in 40 times, but I'd be willing to bet 10 yard dash times of players like Miller, and Mack are similar.

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                            • Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
                              Hype is what's said about someone. I think the plays themselves with the bottom-line results and final outcome speaks volumes about his contribution.










                              That's not even all of them but enough to illustrate the point. He played an instrumental role in our acquisition of a third Lombardi and they awarded him the MVP. That isn't hype, it's history.
                              I think his best play was the INT when he was in coverage on a WR. The RT he beat for Carolina is..#74, Mike Remmers....and #71 Cameron Fleming for NE...two of the lesser RT in the league. Fleming was signed off the PS after Solder went out injured.

                              A lot of Von's success in the SB was due to Remmers being not very good as opposed to Miller being so great. Von still had a great game but he wouldn't have had nearly the same game if he had been going against a decent RT, such as Doug Free.....which is my reasoning for saying it is a lot of hype in his claims to such a big payday.

                              If the broncos wouldn't have made the SB....would you say he earned that much of a payday based on the regular season production?
                              Last edited by broncos SB2010; 03-26-2016, 02:06 PM.
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                              • Originally posted by LynchMobster View Post
                                Hype is what's said about someone. The plays themselves with their bottom-line results and final outcome speak volumes about the value of his contribution here without any need to say a word.










                                That's not even all of them but enough to illustrate the point. He played an instrumental role in our acquisition of a third Lombardi and they awarded him the MVP. That isn't hype, it's history.
                                By putting clips of the two playoff games you are pretty much reinforcing the point of it being playoff hype. You can't pay a guy based on a few games. That's how you overpay. If he shows up like that 16 games throughout the regular season as well then ok. But until the. 20+ mill is an absurd number for a non QB. Paying a guy based on a playoff run is how the ravens ended up with flacco contract and the miners with kap.

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