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  • #16
    Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
    Not meaning to turn this thread into a Henry discussion. I realize some find it ludicrous. I don't. He brings a unique skillset to the field. I also think some are over emphasizing the "slow to the line" rhetoric. He isn't a speed RB. You have to adjust your thinking and expectations to match his talents.

    Kind of like comparing the skillsets of a pocket passer to a scrambler. Or d-line run stopper or skilled pass rusher. You adjust your expectations to match the strengths and weaknesses.

    My issue is that an increased emphasis on the rushing this year needs better RBs. Anderson is a nice RB if he can become more reliable and stay healthy. The others, including Hillman it seems, are good but not great. I want a little more impact capabilities then I think Gray, Thompson or Bibbs can provide. Kind of funny that last year I was advocating an upgrade of a speed RB to replace Hillman. Now I find myself on the other side of the spectrum wanting to go with a chain mover with the capability of busting big runs to pair with Anderson.

    I realize the odds of Henry being drafted in the 1st are slim at best. But a certainly want a RB drafted within the first 4 picks. Elawy and Kubiak will decide if it is a power, speed or all-purpose type back they want to emphasize. They might very well go for a speed back.

    All part of the fun to see how they build the team this off-season.
    Expanding on this I agree with nearly all of it. I to want at least 1 RB in the first 4 picks. I have already posted the stats on the odds of a top 5 RB making it to us after round 4 and it is slim. Once you move out of the top 5-10 RBs in the draft their potential for really producing drops like a brick. Anderson is arguably an exception. I have not yet posted this next comment but it is important to note. This is the only year where Anderson's contract pay him big money. All other years in his contract he is making the kind of money we'd all have been ecstatic with paying him. Miami front loaded his contract like crazy to try and make it as difficult as possible for us to match the offer.

    I digress....

    What we need to realize and what RB's need to realize is that in the NFL LB's are faster, more agile and stronger then they are in college. So the types of moves which might have worked for you in college may not work for you in the pros. This is why I am a bit concerned with Henry. I am concerned that he may end up like Trent Richardson. Clearly not as lazy but stats-wise. A bigger guy who killed it in college but had difficulties really doing well in the NFL. I think Henry will do better than Trent but I question how much better. Can he supplement his lack of speed with raw power? - there are plenty of examples in the NFL history books who have done this quite well. No reason why Henry cannot be another name added to that list. A bigger point I'd make with regards to Henry is that I feel we can do better than him with our first. Realistically that is what we'd need to use to get him. So for me I'd look to guys like Nixon, Madden and a few of the other RB's in the draft who might be able to come in and act as more of a compliment to CJ.

    I also could see us targeting a PR/KR/RB type guy in the later rounds and see how they work out. Really that is what I see being a true value add for our team. this same player could double as our slot guy too.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
      Sounds impressive when you say it. I was thinking of it as settling for mediocrity.
      Especially when we don't have any reliability with any RB and nothing but unproven below average players behind Anderson. We will be drafting a RB this year simply because we just don't have any legit talent and outside of last year Elway has added a large investment at RB through FA or the draft.
      A healthy Kenneth Dixon is a top 5 NFL RB.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
        Expanding on this I agree with nearly all of it. I to want at least 1 RB in the first 4 picks. I have already posted the stats on the odds of a top 5 RB making it to us after round 4 and it is slim. Once you move out of the top 5-10 RBs in the draft their potential for really producing drops like a brick. Anderson is arguably an exception. I have not yet posted this next comment but it is important to note. This is the only year where Anderson's contract pay him big money. All other years in his contract he is making the kind of money we'd all have been ecstatic with paying him. Miami front loaded his contract like crazy to try and make it as difficult as possible for us to match the offer.

        I digress....

        What we need to realize and what RB's need to realize is that in the NFL LB's are faster, more agile and stronger then they are in college. So the types of moves which might have worked for you in college may not work for you in the pros. This is why I am a bit concerned with Henry. I am concerned that he may end up like Trent Richardson. Clearly not as lazy but stats-wise. A bigger guy who killed it in college but had difficulties really doing well in the NFL. I think Henry will do better than Trent but I question how much better. Can he supplement his lack of speed with raw power? - there are plenty of examples in the NFL history books who have done this quite well. No reason why Henry cannot be another name added to that list. A bigger point I'd make with regards to Henry is that I feel we can do better than him with our first. Realistically that is what we'd need to use to get him. So for me I'd look to guys like Nixon, Madden and a few of the other RB's in the draft who might be able to come in and act as more of a compliment to CJ.

        I also could see us targeting a PR/KR/RB type guy in the later rounds and see how they work out. Really that is what I see being a true value add for our team. this same player could double as our slot guy too.
        If we're really targeting a RB I wouldn't be shocked if we used a 2nd rounder on Dixon. He's a better tackle breaker than Henry but also has the same rare type of lateral agility that Anderson has shown when healthy.
        A healthy Kenneth Dixon is a top 5 NFL RB.

        Comment


        • #19
          My apologies the thread got hijacked.

          Back to the initial players. As you can see not much confidence in Gray even makes the team. Possibly the TE/FB Garner or the P Johnson have a decent shot depending on training camps. The OT, DB or WR seem like long shot camp bodies to me.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by crash123go View Post
            If we're really targeting a RB I wouldn't be shocked if we used a 2nd rounder on Dixon. He's a better tackle breaker than Henry but also has the same rare type of lateral agility that Anderson has shown when healthy.
            I can agree with you there. My only concern with Dixon (I miss-typed his name above - I typed Nixon to much politics on tv) is that he is shorter. IMO the type of back we should be targeting is a taller well rounded back. One of the reasons I like MAdden.


            To circleback to the post at hand here Garner could even be a fit for this type of role...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
              I can agree with you there. My only concern with Dixon (I miss-typed his name above - I typed Nixon to much politics on tv) is that he is shorter. IMO the type of back we should be targeting is a taller well rounded back. One of the reasons I like MAdden.


              To circleback to the post at hand here Garner could even be a fit for this type of role...
              Short? He's 5'10 which I would put money on being the league average and 2 inches taller than Anderson. Did you mistake his height with another RB?
              A healthy Kenneth Dixon is a top 5 NFL RB.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                Sounds impressive when you say it. I was thinking of it as settling for mediocrity.
                Well, sure, there should be a way to earn a BS artist badge displayed prominently next to your avatar. I'd go for it. Seriously though if you look at what we can have right now at the RB position it's not a dire situation:

                Anderson: Looks great down the stretch, needs to be in better shape early in the season
                Thompson: About the same size as Anderson, showed some ability, was hurt last year
                Bibbs: Built more like Hillman, not as much acceleration but more power
                Gray: Mediocre journeyman

                Of course I'd love for the Broncos to have the best player in the league at every position. Or even a stud impact player at every position. That's not really reasonable though. We've barely scratched the surface with Thompson, and Bibbs looks like he'll give at least the same as what Hillman offered. We need to see if we can build an O-Line that can actually run block consistently. Put the resources into the line and reap the benefits as good RB's start having great games. It's not that I hate the idea of having a stud RB. I think it's smarter to build a team that can allow a good back to play like a stud.
                Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by osfantaztic View Post
                  Well it looks like Elway wants to keep Hillman...

                  http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denv...lman/118646731
                  Ugh. I don't think he has progressed enough to warrant keeping him. Our run blocking has been pretty poor lately but I don't see him consistently making good decisions and RB is supposed to be one of (if not the) easiest transitions from college to NFL.
                  Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by listopencil View Post
                    Ugh. I don't think he has progressed enough to warrant keeping him. Our run blocking has been pretty poor lately but I don't see him consistently making good decisions and RB is supposed to be one of (if not the) easiest transitions from college to NFL.
                    Hillman behind a FB... hmm...

                    It might be worth taking him through TC to see what he can or cannot do. He's already proven faithful, if to a fault - can he up his game? Maybe.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by crash123go View Post
                      Short? He's 5'10 which I would put money on being the league average and 2 inches taller than Anderson. Did you mistake his height with another RB?
                      No I know he is 5ft10. I just look at the 6ft+ Rb's and think of how productive some of them have been in the league. The ones that stand out lately are Arian Foster and Le'Veon Bell. 6ft to 6ft3 and 220-240 lbs.

                      I am talking about guy like

                      Tre Madden

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1Y_UPG3fPw

                      Kenyan Drake

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQFDwrztLJk

                      James Conner

                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byxgC3Hmlfk


                      All have decent speed good size and have a blend of size, speed and are big enough to be a reciever and win a matchup but then run for YAC.

                      Originally posted by Rastic View Post
                      Hillman behind a FB... hmm...

                      It might be worth taking him through TC to see what he can or cannot do. He's already proven faithful, if to a fault - can he up his game? Maybe.
                      So now he gets a block and gets past the D lineman to only be brought down by the 1st LB or Safety who sneezes in his general direction....no thanks. Only way I'd Bring Hillman back is if he developed into a PR/KR since he didn't do that while he was here I say good riddance.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by listopencil View Post
                        Well, sure, there should be a way to earn a BS artist badge displayed prominently next to your avatar. I'd go for it. Seriously though if you look at what we can have right now at the RB position it's not a dire situation:

                        Anderson: Looks great down the stretch, needs to be in better shape early in the season
                        Thompson: About the same size as Anderson, showed some ability, was hurt last year
                        Bibbs: Built more like Hillman, not as much acceleration but more power
                        Gray: Mediocre journeyman

                        Of course I'd love for the Broncos to have the best player in the league at every position. Or even a stud impact player at every position. That's not really reasonable though. We've barely scratched the surface with Thompson, and Bibbs looks like he'll give at least the same as what Hillman offered. We need to see if we can build an O-Line that can actually run block consistently. Put the resources into the line and reap the benefits as good RB's start having great games. It's not that I hate the idea of having a stud RB. I think it's smarter to build a team that can allow a good back to play like a stud.
                        A "BS artist badge"? Does that have something to do with the Boy Scouts or the back end of a bull?

                        We just differ on how we want to address the needed players. Although not dire, I would put an upgrade at RB pretty high for me.

                        We can argue about the order of importance but in the first 4 picks I want to see a RB, o-lineman, d-lineman. Considering the QB situation I am thinking QB will need to be addressed too.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by listopencil View Post
                          Well, sure, there should be a way to earn a BS artist badge displayed prominently next to your avatar. I'd go for it. Seriously though if you look at what we can have right now at the RB position it's not a dire situation:

                          Anderson: Looks great down the stretch, needs to be in better shape early in the season
                          Thompson: About the same size as Anderson, showed some ability, was hurt last year
                          Bibbs: Built more like Hillman, not as much acceleration but more power
                          Gray: Mediocre journeyman

                          Of course I'd love for the Broncos to have the best player in the league at every position. Or even a stud impact player at every position. That's not really reasonable though. We've barely scratched the surface with Thompson, and Bibbs looks like he'll give at least the same as what Hillman offered. We need to see if we can build an O-Line that can actually run block consistently. Put the resources into the line and reap the benefits as good RB's start having great games. It's not that I hate the idea of having a stud RB. I think it's smarter to build a team that can allow a good back to play like a stud.
                          Anderson showed his talent behind that bad oline play when he could stay healthy. Bibbs never even got a sniff of playing time and Thompson is a slower Reubean Droughns. Not exactly breaking the bank in overwhelming talent. Elway knows the value of having talented depth which is why he won't just cross his fingers and hope Thompson or Bibbs steps up. If Elway did think that way he wouldn't have drafted Shane Ray with Shaq Barrett and Lerentee McCray on the roster.

                          If I remember correctly the Broncos had early, early second round grades on Eddie Lacy and Leveon Bell. If that's true there are some RB's in this draft that the Broncos will have rated in the top 45 players that we will have a shot at with 63.
                          A healthy Kenneth Dixon is a top 5 NFL RB.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                            A "BS artist badge"? Does that have something to do with the Boy Scouts or the back end of a bull?

                            We just differ on how we want to address the needed players. Although not dire, I would put an upgrade at RB pretty high for me.

                            We can argue about the order of importance but in the first 4 picks I want to see a RB, o-lineman, d-lineman. Considering the QB situation I am thinking QB will need to be addressed too.
                            I wouldn't be against drafting a RB. I just don't want them to use a high pick on one. That compensatory third would be a good place to go with one.
                            Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by crash123go View Post
                              Anderson showed his talent behind that bad oline play when he could stay healthy. Bibbs never even got a sniff of playing time and Thompson is a slower Reubean Droughns. Not exactly breaking the bank in overwhelming talent. Elway knows the value of having talented depth which is why he won't just cross his fingers and hope Thompson or Bibbs steps up. If Elway did think that way he wouldn't have drafted Shane Ray with Shaq Barrett and Lerentee McCray on the roster.

                              If I remember correctly the Broncos had early, early second round grades on Eddie Lacy and Leveon Bell. If that's true there are some RB's in this draft that the Broncos will have rated in the top 45 players that we will have a shot at with 63.
                              I'm good with Anderson, glad he's on the team. I don't think they had any reason to bring Bibbs up because he's close to Hillman-sized, but slower and stronger because he is a little bigger. He might actually be substantially bigger now, he has a bigger frame. Thompson was banged up last year so I do give him a bit of a pass, but I think his problem was a lack of vision and lateral movement. He's closer to Anderson's size though so he would be the guy that I think could back him up. As of right now I'd go 1) Anderson, 2)Thompson then Bibbs for a change of pace and Gray for depth. With a functional line that would work. Like I was saying to FR Tim - I wouldn't be against drafting a RB but I don't want them to use a high pick on one.
                              Adopt-A-Bronco: Jonathon Cooper

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by listopencil View Post
                                I'm good with Anderson, glad he's on the team. I don't think they had any reason to bring Bibbs up because he's close to Hillman-sized, but slower and stronger because he is a little bigger. He might actually be substantially bigger now, he has a bigger frame. Thompson was banged up last year so I do give him a bit of a pass, but I think his problem was a lack of vision and lateral movement. He's closer to Anderson's size though so he would be the guy that I think could back him up. As of right now I'd go 1) Anderson, 2)Thompson then Bibbs for a change of pace and Gray for depth. With a functional line that would work. Like I was saying to FR Tim - I wouldn't be against drafting a RB but I don't want them to use a high pick on one.
                                Yeah, you've already said all that. If anything, that description of our RB depth has convinced me even more that we could target a RB early.
                                A healthy Kenneth Dixon is a top 5 NFL RB.

                                Comment

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