Broncos Offer Von Miller $17MM+

[Freyaka]

They really can't afford to low ball Miller. Just pay what he's earned and move on.

Sure they can...They can keep working out a deal with him and if that doesn't work tag him again. They can afford to start low and then negotiate to somewhere in the middle.

[L.M.]

Sure they can...They can keep working out a deal with him and if that doesn't work tag him again. They can afford to start low and then negotiate to somewhere in the middle.

That's what I suspect will happen. He says 22, they say 17, 19.5 is a fair compromise between that's slightly more than Suh.

[Freyaka]

That's what I suspect will happen. He says 22, they say 17, 19.5 is a fair compromise between that's slightly more than Suh.

That's what is going to happen...anyone who has a problem with us starting low doesn't understand how negotiations work. You start out with a low number know the other side will come out with a high number and you negotiate until both sides are happy with somewhere in between.

[TheAsianPA]

That's what is going to happen...anyone who has a problem with us starting low doesn't understand how negotiations work. You start out with a low number know the other side will come out with a high number and you negotiate until both sides are happy with somewhere in between.

Miller just won MVP and literally won the superbowl for the Broncos. His performance is worth that contract and Miller knows it. I think Miller wins this one. But hey, I dont know anything about negotiations.

[Freyaka]

Miller just won MVP and literally won the superbowl for the Broncos. His performance is worth that contract and Miller knows it. I think Miller wins this one. But hey, I dont know anything about negotiations.

It doesn't matter what he just did...You still don't start high....If we started with an offer that was fair to both sides, likely his agent would then up the price and we would end up with a higher end result.

When you are trying to get the best dollar you always hit them low (no matter who they are or what they've done) That's how you negotiate.

If you want to get someone to take $10 for an item, you don't start with $10 you start with $8 anticipating that they will say $12 and haggle them to the middle point which is $10. If you start at $10, you will end up paying $11...

[TheAsianPA]

It doesn't matter what he just did...You still don't start high....If we started with an offer that was fair to both sides, likely his agent would then up the price and we would end up with a higher end result.

When you are trying to get the best dollar you always hit them low (no matter who they are or what they've done) That's how you negotiate.

If you want to get someone to take $10 for an item, you don't start with $10 you start with $8 anticipating that they will say $12 and haggle them to the middle point which is $10. If you start at $10, you will end up paying $11...

Is that extra 1-2 million worth it? Everybody knows that without Von there is no Superbowl 50 for the Broncos. DTs contract looks like it'll be restructured. Clady has been traded. Osweiler's ridiculous contract is gone, and Okung is practically playing for free. So we know Elway can afford at least 3 million more, but would rather bargain bin Von to 'negotiate.' Look, I get saving money and looking for the best deal, especially from my culture. It's prudent 90% of the time. But I also know when it's a bad look and screams of being cheap. I believe Von is the best defensive player in the league, and he should be paid like one. Trying to get him to take less is a mistake on the long run.

[Freyaka]

Is that extra 1-2 million worth it? Everybody knows that without Von there is no Superbowl 50 for the Broncos. DTs contract looks like it'll be restructured. Clady has been traded. Osweiler's ridiculous contract is gone, and Okung is practically playing for free. So we know Elway can afford at least 3 million more, but would rather bargain bin Von to 'negotiate.' Look, I get saving money and looking for the best deal, especially from my culture. It's prudent 90% of the time. But I also know when it's a bad look and screams of being cheap. I believe Von is the best defensive player in the league, and he should be paid like one. Trying to get him to take less is a mistake on the long run.

When you are as cap needy as we are, every $1M can be the difference between signing help we need, and not getting that help. I get where you are coming from, you don't want to piss Von off, but unlike guys like Malik or Brock I get the impression that he really wants to be here, depending on how we framed the offer, it might not even seem like a low ball offer to him.

I don't think getting him to take less is a problem, especially since from all reports, these negotiations have been extremely peaceful. We have to be cheap, it doesn't matter what it looks like, we cannot afford not to be cheap.

Paying a player what they want, rather than attempting to get the best dollar is what kills teams in the long run. We'll get the deal done and it will be a deal that both sides are happy with.

[dipablo]

They really can't afford to low ball Miller. Just pay what he's earned and move on.

You are right they cant afford to do that...that is why they didn't low ball him.

17m is not a low ball offer, its the low end of the pay spectrum for him sure, but not unreasonable. Its the perfect place to start negotiations.

Now if Elway offered him say 14 or 15 mil? now that would be a low ball and probably insult miller quite a bit.

[Freyaka]

You are right they cant afford to do that...that is why they didn't low ball him.

17m is not a low ball offer, its the low end of the pay spectrum for him sure, but not unreasonable. Its the perfect place to start negotiations.

Now if Elway offered him say 14 or 15 mil? now that would be a low ball and probably insult miller quite a bit.

And really the per year isn't nearly as important as we fans make it. It is important in the fact that it is what the cap hit is figured off of, but players rarely get their per year amount, it's the guaranteed that matters to the players. If we offer $22m per year with $40M guaranteed, it is not going to be as good of a deal as $19M per year with $60M guaranteed. Most players will take the higher guaranteed deal because that's going to be the one that ensures they get the maximum money.

The per year really isn't what is important, it's how much of the total contract amount are they guaranteed to earn.

[dipablo]

And really the per year isn't nearly as important as we fans make it. It is important in the fact that it is what the cap hit is figured off of, but players rarely get their per year amount, it's the guaranteed that matters to the players. If we offer $22m per year with $40M guaranteed, it is not going to be as good of a deal as $19M per year with $60M guaranteed. Most players will take the higher guaranteed deal because that's going to be the one that ensures they get the maximum money.

The per year really isn't what is important, it's how much of the total contract amount are they guaranteed to earn.

I mostly agree with you here but i do think some players want both. they want the guaranteed for the reasons you stated but they also want the yearly for the status its brings. Remember these guys are huge ego machines that need to be fed.

Not saying Von is one of them, just speaking generally, but you never know...im like you though i think he wants to be here and will do what it takes to be here.

[uknflfan]

And really the per year isn't nearly as important as we fans make it. It is important in the fact that it is what the cap hit is figured off of, but players rarely get their per year amount, it's the guaranteed that matters to the players. If we offer $22m per year with $40M guaranteed, it is not going to be as good of a deal as $19M per year with $60M guaranteed. Most players will take the higher guaranteed deal because that's going to be the one that ensures they get the maximum money.

The per year really isn't what is important, it's how much of the total contract amount are they guaranteed to earn.

The APY is important, but it does depend on the structure of the deal. The main thing is to look at the detail of the contract rather than the initial report. The things you need to focus on are the payout in the first 2-3 years of the deal and how much of that is guaranteed. Also, there is a difference between 'guaranteed' and 'fully guaranteed' money. Typically, the 'guaranteed money' in the initial reports includes injury and/or vesting guarantees. Therefore, the 'fully guaranteed money (money that is guaranteed at the time of signing, no matter what) will be less than what is quoted in the reports. That's why you need to wait a few days after the initial news breaks to really get the full picture.

For example, Justin Houston's contract was reported as having $52.5M guaranteed. In fact, when you look at the detail of the contract, only $32.5M is fully guaranteed at the time of signing. The other $20M is made up of 'vesting guarantees' (money that becomes guaranteed if he is on the roster at a specific date).