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Did one Broncos 'discount' deal set stage for Von Miller conflict?

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  • Originally posted by aditheman View Post
    rescind his contract just like Norman or let him play out this year and then he goes outta here. I mean, that is just too much money to tie up into one player.
    The top contracts on teams really aren't a big deal, every team carries large contracts, every single one. The top teams are the ones who are wisest with the middle of the road contracts and are able to find some key performers who are entry level deals. Whether Denver pays Miller or not, the only way they remain a contender is if they continue to be smart about those middle of the road contracts and draft key contributors.

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    • Originally posted by aditheman View Post
      rescind his contract just like Norman or let him play out this year and then he goes outta here. I mean, that is just too much money to tie up into one player.
      No reason to do that.

      We can use the franchise tag to lock him up for two years less then what we are offering

      It is a jerk move but if the agent does not come back to reality. ...by choice or by Von forcing him too...then I have read it is a option
      Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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      • Originally posted by aditheman View Post
        rescind his contract just like Norman or let him play out this year and then he goes outta here. I mean, that is just too much money to tie up into one player.
        That would be an awful move... The reason Norman got his contract rescinded is he thought he was a top 5 corner, the Panthers didn't feel he was outside of one year. When it became obvious that he thought more of himself than the Panthers did, they decided they needed the cap space more than Norman.

        Our situation is different because Miller's every bit as good as he believes he is and deserves his payday. Elway isn't going to make a stupid move like rescinding his contract.
        sigpic

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        • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
          The top contracts on teams really aren't a big deal, every team carries large contracts, every single one. The top teams are the ones who are wisest with the middle of the road contracts and are able to find some key performers who are entry level deals. Whether Denver pays Miller or not, the only way they remain a contender is if they continue to be smart about those middle of the road contracts and draft key contributors.
          Actually define large?

          3 of the last 8 Super Bowl teams did not have a single player with 9% of a cap hit or more.

          Elway is actually responsible for 3 of the top six cap hits of the last 8 Super Bowl teams. (PM twice and 2015 DT)

          Also just as interesting is how many players get paid....and still have not yet been back to the Super Bowl since their big contract started sucking up cap space.

          Rodgers, Brees, Flaco, Kaep, Wilson. Want to say Big Ben too but can not remember when he got paid.

          Will be honest....there is not much data available easily found (without a lot of work I only have found 5 years) but early indications tell me big cap hits do a lot of harm to a team chance of winning.

          Tho I think quality drafting and player dev is a bigger factor atm
          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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          • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
            Tho I think quality drafting and player dev is a bigger factor atm
            I think our history in the draft and UDFA's along makes Miller's contract something that won't have a huge impact on us.

            We are good at farming players and letting them walk and then keeping the ones that are deemed to valuable to let walk.
            sigpic

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            • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
              Actually define large?

              3 of the last 8 Super Bowl teams did not have a single player with 9% of a cap hit or more.

              Elway is actually responsible for 3 of the top six cap hits of the last 8 Super Bowl teams. (PM twice and 2015 DT)

              Also just as interesting is how many players get paid....and still have not yet been back to the Super Bowl since their big contract started sucking up cap space.

              Rodgers, Brees, Flaco, Kaep, Wilson. Want to say Big Ben too but can not remember when he got paid.

              Will be honest....there is not much data available easily found (without a lot of work I only have found 5 years) but early indications tell me big cap hits do a lot of harm to a team chance of winning.

              Tho I think quality drafting and player dev is a bigger factor atm

              Big cap hits don't do that much harm, as long as you have the players on cheap contracts to balance things out. That's what every winning team needs. Look at the Broncos this last year, 4 of the 5 starting o-linemen were on fairly cheap contracts (even Vasquez wasn't that high) both RBs were on entry level deals, one WR was on a very cheap deal, all 3 starting down linemen were on entry level deals, all inside linebackers on the roster were on cheap deals.

              The bottom half to two thirds of the roster are essentially what makes a team, you can afford to have high paid players as long as you have talented players on cheap contracts beside them.

              I decided to compare the top 15 salaries from the final 4 last year and 4 other teams (2 contenders from each conference), here's what we have:

              Den $105 308 168
              NE $97 353 459
              Ariz $114 206 862
              Car $84 932 768 (should be noted they're a young team, which is why this is so low)

              Sea $105 263 083 (I took Lynch out of the equation, although technically he's still counted)
              GB $118 396 948
              KC $108 337 922
              Pit $113 182 806

              As you can see Denver isn't spending any more on their top 15 contracts than any other true contender, with the notable exception being Carolina, who are young and will see their numbers go up in the next year or two.

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              • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                Big cap hits don't do that much harm, as long as you have the players on cheap contracts to balance things out. That's what every winning team needs. Look at the Broncos this last year, 4 of the 5 starting o-linemen were on fairly cheap contracts (even Vasquez wasn't that high) both RBs were on entry level deals, one WR was on a very cheap deal, all 3 starting down linemen were on entry level deals, all inside linebackers on the roster were on cheap deals.

                The bottom half to two thirds of the roster are essentially what makes a team, you can afford to have high paid players as long as you have talented players on cheap contracts beside them.

                I decided to compare the top 15 salaries from the final 4 last year and 4 other teams (2 contenders from each conference), here's what we have:

                Den $105 308 168
                NE $97 353 459
                Ariz $114 206 862
                Car $84 932 768 (should be noted they're a young team, which is why this is so low)

                Sea $105 263 083 (I took Lynch out of the equation, although technically he's still counted)
                GB $118 396 948
                KC $108 337 922
                Pit $113 182 806

                As you can see Denver isn't spending any more on their top 15 contracts than any other true contender, with the notable exception being Carolina, who are young and will see their numbers go up in the next year or two.
                I think you are looking at base salary?

                That can be a misleading number

                For example looking at the 2015 Carolina Panthers...

                Charles Johnson had a 9.75 million salary....yet his cap hit against the salary cap that year was 20.02 million. When only looking at the last 8 Super Bowl teams....that is the highest percentage of one player taking up cap space at 13.78%.

                Cam had a salary of 1 million...yet his cap hit against the salary cap was 13 million.

                A good example of how contracts that look similar but effect the team completely different is the conversation of Marcel Darius vs Suh had earlier in this thread. Agents and teams use all kinds of tricks to make the numbers work out.

                The NFL uses a players cap hit to determine how much a team can spend to get more players....that is not only the easiest number to compare imo it seems to be the most important number the NFL looks at because it determines a teams salary cap.
                Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                Comment


                • Though I have nothing to contribute at this time, this has been a great discussion with a lot of civility and mutual understanding. CPs all around.
                  sigpic

                  Hooray, beer!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Hadez View Post
                    I think you are looking at base salary?

                    That can be a misleading number

                    For example looking at the 2015 Carolina Panthers...

                    Charles Johnson had a 9.75 million salary....yet his cap hit against the salary cap that year was 20.02 million. When only looking at the last 8 Super Bowl teams....that is the highest percentage of one player taking up cap space at 13.78%.

                    Cam had a salary of 1 million...yet his cap hit against the salary cap was 13 million.

                    A good example of how contracts that look similar but effect the team completely different is the conversation of Marcel Darius vs Suh had earlier in this thread. Agents and teams use all kinds of tricks to make the numbers work out.

                    The NFL uses a players cap hit to determine how much a team can spend to get more players....that is not only the easiest number to compare imo it seems to be the most important number the NFL looks at because it determines a teams salary cap.

                    That's 2016 cap hits based on the numbers from Over The Cap

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                      That's 2016 cap hits based on the numbers from Over The Cap
                      Charles Johnson was released in March 2016 to save 11m in cap space.

                      http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14...harles-johnson

                      He was resigned to a much smaller cap hit deal not long after

                      http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/po...n-was-top-move

                      Charles Johnson has a one year deal in 2016 that is completely different, a cap hit of 2.5m in 2016.

                      http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-...arles-johnson/

                      Cam Newton has a 19m cap hit in 2016

                      http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cap/

                      Over the Cap agrees with these 2016 numbers

                      http://overthecap.com/salary-cap/carolina-panthers/

                      Here is where I find the 2015 numbers I used in the post you claim were 2016 numbers

                      http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/carolina-panthers/cap/2015/

                      It shows good cap breakdowns back to 2011
                      Last edited by Hadez; 04-27-2016, 04:56 AM.
                      Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

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