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  • Agents take on the Miller situation

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ag...l-with-denver/

    "Von Miller and the Broncos still don't have a deal in place, but that's likely to change in the coming weeks.
    The Broncos and the Super Bowl 50 MVP couldn't agree on a long-term contract prior to the team's self-imposed deadline of 10 p.m. MT on Tuesday. A motivating factor for the deadline was because the Broncos wanted Miller to be at minicamp, which ends Thursday. Miller, who was given an exclusive linebacker franchise tender for $14.26 million, isn't required to attend because he isn't under contract.

    Denver reportedly offered $114.5 million over six years, which would have made Miller the NFL's highest paid non-quarterback at $19,083,333 per year. The distinction is currently held by defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh, who received a six-year, $114.375 million contract containing $59.955 million fully guaranteed from the Miami Dolphins last year as an unrestricted free agent. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, Denver's offer has $58 million in overall guarantees where $38.5 million is fully guaranteed at signing and $39.8 million in the first two years. Included in the $38.5 million is a $21.5 million signing bonus.
    Talks broke down over guaranteed money and cash flow of the deal. The amounts fully guaranteed at signing and in the first three years of a contract are much more important than average yearly salary and the overall value of a deal, which are relatively meaningless because of the general lack of security in NFL contracts.

    Miller is believed to be seeking full guarantees and a cash flow more in line with Suh's contract. Suh has $50 million over the first two years of his deal. He's at $60 million after three years. Miller wants overall guarantees approaching $70 million according to ESPN.com's Jeff Legwold.
    It was initially believed that the Broncos had withdrawn their offer to Miller. The offer is reportedly still on the table while the Broncos reassess their position as the negotiations have reached an impasse.
    Here's a look at what lies ahead for Miller and the Broncos.

    The Broncos and Miller have until 4 p.m. ET on July 15 to reach agreement on a long-term contract. Once this deadline for franchise players has passed, the earliest a multi-year deal can be is signed Jan. 1, 2017, when the 2016 regular season ends.
    The sides will likely remain at an impasse until the deadline is approaching. This is partially because the slowest part of the NFL calendar is the period between the end of minicamp and offseason workouts, which begins on June 17 for most teams, and the Fourth of July. Team employees will begin coming back from vacation after the holiday.
    Talks will likely resume as July 15 approaches. Most franchise player long term deals are signed in the eleventh hour anyway. That was the case with Dez Bryant and Demaryius Thomas last year.

    A deal should be able to be made once negotiations resume because a general framework is already in place. Both sides are comfortable with $114.5 million as the total and six years and the length of the contract.
    Reaching an agreement will require concessions from Miller's camp and the Broncos. Miller must realize that he isn't going beat Suh's deal in all contract metrics because he is operating under an exclusive franchise tag, which prevents him from soliciting offer sheets from other teams. Suh got his deal by leveraging interest from multiple teams as an unrestricted free agent.
    That's a big distinction between Miller and Suh's situations.
    The chart below outlines the top non-quarterback deals in some key contract metrics that should be relevant to Miller.

    Justin Houston and J.J. Watt aren't among the top five non-quarterbacks in money fully guaranteed at signing. The six-year, $101 million contract Houston received from the Chiefs last July as a franchise player has $32.5 million fully guaranteed at signing. Watt's six-year, $100 million contract extension with the Texans from 2014 contains $30,876,385 fully guaranteed at signing.

    Suh's contract is an outlier in some respects. Quarterback contracts aren't even structured as favorably as Suh's. Aaron Rodgers and Joe Flacco are second and third in the NFL with $44.5 million and $44 million fully guaranteed at signing respectively from the Packers and Ravens. Dareus is fourth.
    Expecting close to $70 million in overall guarantees is also unrealistic and unreasonable. Quarterbacks Eli Manning and Philip Rivers currently have the most in the NFL at $65 million in their respective contracts with the Giants and Chargers. Manning has $37 million fully guaranteed at signing while Rivers is at $37.5 million.
    Colts quarterback Andrew Luck could become the NFL standard for most major contract metrics with the blockbuster deal he is expected to sign before the start of training camp in late July.
    The Broncos shouldn't expect Miller to accept a structure that isn't at least comparable to Thomas'. As Denver's franchise player last year, Thomas signed a deal with $43.5 million in overall guarantees where $35 million was fully guaranteed at signing, which is the money in his contract's first two years.
    Thomas' $8.5 million 2017 base salary in his third contract year was guaranteed for injury at signing but became fully guaranteed five days after Super Bowl 50, which was this past Feb. 12. His third-year guarantee is unusual. The Broncos typically have any third-year injury guarantees vest as full guarantees in that specific contract year. (i.e.; 2017 base salary becomes fully guaranteed on the third day of the 2017 league year).
    Thomas also has guarantees without offsets, just like in 2013 franchise player Ryan Clady's contract. This means if Thomas is released in 2017, he will get the entire $8.5 million salary from the Broncos in addition to the full salary from his new contract with another club. An offset clause would prevent this "double dipping" because the Broncos would be able reduce the guaranteed $8.5 million by the amount of Thomas' deal with his new team.

    The Broncos are in a position to pay Miller at the top of the non-quarterback market because there shouldn't be a high-priced quarterback on the books anytime soon. Once Paxton Lynch, who was taken with the 26th overall pick in the NFL Draft, takes over at quarterback, he will be one of the NFL's lowest-paid starters at the position. He just signed a four-year, $9,496,307 contract where his largest salary cap number in 2019 will be slightly more than $3 million.
    If Lynch is the long-term solution at quarterback, he won't be able to sign an extension until 2019 when the guaranteed money under any long-term deal Miller signs this year will have run out.

    The Broncos should be willing to slightly exceed Suh's $60 million in the first three years within the existing framework of $114.5 million over six years. Letting Miller break Dareus' defensive player record of $60 million in overall guarantees is also advisable.
    The $61 million to $62 million range for both the overall guarantees and money in the first three years should be a fair compromise. Miller would be setting the standard for non-quarterbacks in these two metrics in addition to average yearly salary.
    The Broncos should remain relatively firm with money fully guaranteed at signing when making these other concessions. Topping Dareus' $42.9 million will likely be a necessity. The Broncos shouldn't be opposed to putting Miller on par with Rodgers' $44.5 million or slightly above it to reach an agreement. Miller's 2018 guarantee in his third contract year will need to vest early next February since this money won't be fully guaranteed at signing. Guarantees without offsets would also be appropriate given it was done with Denver's last two franchise players before Miller.
    Miller's second year salary being fully guaranteed at signing without an offset and the $21.5 million signing bonus should eliminate the need for him to have his third year fully guaranteed at the outset of the deal. These structural components would make it too cost prohibitive with regards to the salary cap for Denver to release Miller before his third-year guarantee fully vests next February. In other words, Miller would be practically assured of playing at least three years under the deal with the same structure as Thomas."

    More in link
    What's the difference between ignorance and apathy?
    I don't know and I don't care

  • #2
    So I understand that Miller when healthy and on the field is a dominant player but like it or not he has risk...and plenty of it.

    It was not that long ago he was suspended for a few games for suspected drug use and if memory serves trying to find a way of circumventing the drug testing of the NFL. Then add onto that the ACL injury. So when I look at the numbers he has on the table personally I see them as more than fair. Now for me at least if he was willing to add a major drug & personal conduct clause into the contract whereby he would forego financial compensation as a result of falling back into the NFL's drug program then I might consider matching Suh's offer to Miller of guaranteed money.

    Comment


    • #3
      He's no more "risk" than any other player in the league. While the deal may be "fair", it's not right. I agree the guaranteed money need to come up, a significant amount. But he doesn't need any special "clause" anymore than the next player. He's proven his worth time and time again.

      Nobody was thinking about "clauses" when he was putting on that epic performance this post-season. Make no mistake, we can all exercise a free love fest over the "Manning Factor", but that SB50 trophy does not make its home on Dove Valley without Von.

      This is the cost to have the current LT or Derrick Thomas level player. Epic performances, by epic players, lead to epic contracts. That's how it works.
      #swapping

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by flosstein View Post
        He's no more "risk" than any other player in the league. While the deal may be "fair", it's not right. I agree the guaranteed money need to come up, a significant amount. But he doesn't need any special "clause" anymore than the next player. He's proven his worth time and time again.

        Nobody was thinking about "clauses" when he was putting on that epic performance this post-season. Make no mistake, we can all exercise a free love fest over the "Manning Factor", but that SB50 trophy does not make its home on Dove Valley without Von.

        This is the cost to have the current LT or Derrick Thomas level player. Epic performances, by epic players, lead to epic contracts. That's how it works.
        While this may be true there is absolutely no reason for Elway to cave in now. No matter what he or his agent says, Von will not sit this season out. If he caves before the deadline then you got your elite player for what you wanted him for, for as long as you wanted him for, if he doesn't, you have him for about 6 mil cheaper for the next season. To continue our success we need to keep our talent at a reasonable price.

        People are so quick to call DT's contract bad, but Von took more plays off than DT last season and him wanting 70 mil guaranteed at signing tells me that he wants to keep taking plays off. 58 guaranteed through injury is more than fair. Hell Revis took a huge deal with 0 guaranteed money because he believed in himself and ultimately it worked out for him. Von knows he's good enough to see the full value of his contract regardless of the guaranteed money, so I ask everybody, why is the guaranteed money such a big deal for him? He would have as much money as any defensive player if he gets injured, if he doesn't, he would end up with more than any defensive player currently. What is he so afraid of?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
          While this may be true there is absolutely no reason for Elway to cave in now. No matter what he or his agent says, Von will not sit this season out. If he caves before the deadline then you got your elite player for what you wanted him for, for as long as you wanted him for, if he doesn't, you have him for about 6 mil cheaper for the next season. To continue our success we need to keep our talent at a reasonable price.

          People are so quick to call DT's contract bad, but Von took more plays off than DT last season and him wanting 70 mil guaranteed at signing tells me that he wants to keep taking plays off. 58 guaranteed through injury is more than fair. Hell Revis took a huge deal with 0 guaranteed money because he believed in himself and ultimately it worked out for him. Von knows he's good enough to see the full value of his contract regardless of the guaranteed money, so I ask everybody, why is the guaranteed money such a big deal for him? He would have as much money as any defensive player if he gets injured, if he doesn't, he would end up with more than any defensive player currently. What is he so afraid of?
          I don't understand the need to play cat and mouse with one of the best players in football. Why would you want to upset him and sour his love for denver? Pay him the 60-65 million guaranteed over the first 3 years (which would be better for the back end salary caps anyways) and call it a day. There is plenty of money over the next few years to sign our top guys just have to structure it correctly.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by broncsfan219 View Post
            I don't understand the need to play cat and mouse with one of the best players in football. Why would you want to upset him and sour his love for denver? Pay him the 60-65 million guaranteed over the first 3 years (which would be better for the back end salary caps anyways) and call it a day. There is plenty of money over the next few years to sign our top guys just have to structure it correctly.
            Because he has shown that he either runs hot and cold or he deliberately takes plays off. 11 sacks last year when he's capable of breaking the single season sack record. If he's taking plays off why will he change with 70 mil guaranteed?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post
              Because he has shown that he either runs hot and cold or he deliberately takes plays off. 11 sacks last year when he's capable of breaking the single season sack record. If he's taking plays off why will he change with 70 mil guaranteed?
              Funny that this commentary of him being selfish or taking plays off has only started since negotiations took a bad turn.

              Miller has established himself as one of the top defensive players in the League. By the media, by the stats and by countless Broncos fans that have argued he does not get enough respect. He is the face of the Bronco franchise. How many jerseys or screen savers have his image? Whose image is on the stadium or being printed for the media guides?

              Yet when he wants to get market value for his skills he suddenly is being lumped into the "overrated NFL busts" list. Seriously?

              So which is he?

              If he is so overrated and selfish, trade him to a team that doesn't see him in that light. . Get some assets and play the next man up game. See how successful that is.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                Funny that this commentary of him being selfish or taking plays off has only started since negotiations took a bad turn.

                Miller has established himself as one of the top defensive players in the League. By the media, by the stats and by countless Broncos fans that have argued he does not get enough respect. He is the face of the Bronco franchise. How many jerseys or screen savers have his image? Whose image is on the stadium or being printed for the media guides?

                Yet when he wants to get market value for his skills he suddenly is being lumped into the "overrated NFL busts" list. Seriously?

                So which is he?

                If he is so overrated and selfish, trade him to a team that doesn't see him in that light. . Get some assets and play the next man up game. See how successful that is.
                I totally agree with you. The biggest "hot & cold" I see is in the fan base, not Von.
                #swapping

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rich_C View Post
                  So I understand that Miller when healthy and on the field is a dominant player but like it or not he has risk...and plenty of it.

                  It was not that long ago he was suspended for a few games for suspected drug use and if memory serves trying to find a way of circumventing the drug testing of the NFL. Then add onto that the ACL injury. So when I look at the numbers he has on the table personally I see them as more than fair. Now for me at least if he was willing to add a major drug & personal conduct clause into the contract whereby he would forego financial compensation as a result of falling back into the NFL's drug program then I might consider matching Suh's offer to Miller of guaranteed money.
                  I'm not sure the NFLPA would allow him to sign a contract with that in it (because he's not in the drug protocol anymore) and I'm not sure the NFL would allow the contract because of that either. The closest thing you could do is a per game roster bonus, but there's no reason for Miller to accept any of these stipulations.

                  The contract will get done some time between July 5th and 15th. The Broncos management will be going on vacation next week, so negotiations will stop. Which means this message board will freak out, and people will make wild claims and guesses on both sides. And then they'll come back from vacation on July 5th, and it'll get worked out.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                    Funny that this commentary of him being selfish or taking plays off has only started since negotiations took a bad turn.

                    Miller has established himself as one of the top defensive players in the League. By the media, by the stats and by countless Broncos fans that have argued he does not get enough respect. He is the face of the Bronco franchise. How many jerseys or screen savers have his image? Whose image is on the stadium or being printed for the media guides?

                    Yet when he wants to get market value for his skills he suddenly is being lumped into the "overrated NFL busts" list. Seriously?

                    So which is he?

                    If he is so overrated and selfish, trade him to a team that doesn't see him in that light. . Get some assets and play the next man up game. See how successful that is.
                    31 other teams would love to have him playing for them.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by flosstein View Post
                      I totally agree with you. The biggest "hot & cold" I see is in the fan base, not Von.
                      Same thing with dt... The fan base flipped on him as soon as he was ready to get paid...
                      sigpic

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                        31 other teams would love to have him playing for them.
                        I get your point and want Von to stay as well. However, many of those 31 would drastically overpay for his service. Those are the bottom feeders who stay bottom feeders. That's what John is trying to avoid. Von is a centerpiece true, but every player has a value, they just need to find some middle ground on what that is. I wish we would get into a habit of extending guys early. Watts contract looks like a bargain right now, and it came with little drama as they did it early with no deadline approaching. Von made it difficult for us to place that faith in him early though I suppose.
                        Anonymity is cowardice, and cowards are not known for their wisdom.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
                          31 other teams would love to have him playing for them.
                          Not for a contract like...or even bigger...to Suh's contract...and it sounds like Von's agent is looking for something just like Suh's but even bigger.

                          I think Agents learned with Suh's contract how to structure a contract to essentially make most of the money guarenteed by making the team take a huge cap hit by releasing the player.

                          IMO Suh's first three years of money...guarenteed and non-guarenteed are all gonna happen because of the 41 mil cap hit the Fins would take in releasing Suh. IMO even the fourth year is essentially guarenteed as they would take a 20m cap hit to release him at that point.

                          Suh's contract is killing the Fins and only a idiot GM would agree to another contract like that.

                          I am sure every Agent would throw him mom under the bus to get his client that kind of contract tho
                          Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            If guarenteed money is the only thing that matters give Von a contract like this....

                            http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-b...arcell-dareus/

                            Shoot add 2 mil guarenteed to 5 different years and call it 70 mil guarenteed. Von's cap hit will never reach 20m (19m once) and would be as low as 16.5 mil (except the real low first year).

                            Anyone who looks at that and the ability to understand it will quickly realize this talk of the only thing that matters is guarenteed money is all bogus

                            Von and his agent are trying to kill the Bronco's Salary Cap ... that is the bottom line....I know I know Von is trying to get paid...but the result will kill our Salary Cap!

                            Oh here is Suh's contract...which actually has less guarenteed money but is a cap killer while Dareus has slightly more guarenteed money on a very team friendly deal.

                            http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dol...ndamukong-suh/
                            Last edited by Hadez; 06-14-2016, 06:23 AM.
                            Time to build on the win and grow the team from some solid play higher level of play

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
                              Funny that this commentary of him being selfish or taking plays off has only started since negotiations took a bad turn.

                              Miller has established himself as one of the top defensive players in the League. By the media, by the stats and by countless Broncos fans that have argued he does not get enough respect. He is the face of the Bronco franchise. How many jerseys or screen savers have his image? Whose image is on the stadium or being printed for the media guides?

                              Yet when he wants to get market value for his skills he suddenly is being lumped into the "overrated NFL busts" list. Seriously?

                              So which is he?

                              If he is so overrated and selfish, trade him to a team that doesn't see him in that light. . Get some assets and play the next man up game. See how successful that is.
                              I've been saying he takes plays off long before contract negotiations started. Yes he's an elite player but what kind of precedent does it set if the face of your franchise is coasting through the regular season? Elway is offering him the world and he's turning it down, and for what? Because there's a 5 day period where we can cut him and not be on the hook for all that money? Why is that such a big deal to him? That smells fishy to me especially when everything I've read has stated that the remainder of his contract would become guaranteed if he's on the roster past that point.

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