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Broncos are talking with Von Miller and his reps today

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  • PAINTERDAVE
    replied
    Tick Tock.....

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  • FR Tim
    replied
    Originally posted by osfantaztic View Post
    In the stats posted above I included INTs which reflect coverage. In several of my previous posts I provided specific stats on Von's run defense. He is a top run defender. In addition he gets a lot of pressures that don't show up as sacks. I've provided the exact stats on run defense, complete shut downs, pressures and pressures that led to INTs (not in the posts for the Steelers and Patriots games but in other posts).

    I've been more than fair to Von and definitely want him to accept the offer. Expectations will not be tempered - the bar will be raised the instant he signs (if he signs). When Von threatened to hold out if his demands were not met - not play on the franchise tag - to represent the players and NFLPA over the franchise tag - to be the highest paid defender - that comes with high expectations.

    In many of your posts you have referenced that the Broncos need a face of the franchise. That if not for signing Von there would be no player to carry the face of the Broncos franchise. That Von is needed for marketing and all those things that go with being the marquee player.

    He's about to get that contract. No looking back now - if the guarantees in excess of $70 mil are true - expectations will be higher than ever.

    Von will need to backup what so many have said he does - that he is the engine that drives the defense. That he is the one player that the defense must have.

    We can't have it both ways. Being the highest paid defender - does not align with tempered expectations. There have been hundreds of posts that claim he is the difference maker on the Broncos defense; that everything starts with the impact Von makes; that he is the engine that makes the defense run; that he is double-teamed which allows other players to get their sacks; that he terrorizes quarterbacks.

    He's either elite or he's not.

    There are high expectations for players that get the type of contract that Von is about to sign - comes with the territory.
    Your reasoning is exactly why I made the "tempered expectations" comment. When (or if ) he signs I expect a flood of similar posts with the same tone. Where you and I differ is our opinion of what to expect.

    I expect him to continue to do what he has been doing. I agree that the massive contract does come with added responsibilities of leadership and off field duties. But not to the same unrealistic expectations you seem to be thinking.

    You seem to expect him to be spectacular on every play. The Broncos are paying him to be the "threat" of being spectacular every play. I am not putting arbitrary numbers on him to gauge his success or failure. His overall impact on every game will be felt before he even steps on the field. His performance on it just has to be the same as we have seen. Not some increased superman performance every game or he is "not worth it".

    IMO Miller just has to keep doing exactly what he has been doing. Be a dynamic impact player now entering his prime. That player gets into the HoF.

    Once he signs the contract I hope all the criticisms and character attacks will end. I am assuming they will. Then most (but not all) his biggest detractors can go dig out their favorite #58 jersey, find another thread to argue about how disrespected he is as a top defender in the League and cheer as he drops another QB.

    Football can not start soon enough.

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  • Capt. Jack
    replied
    Originally posted by Sam_Z View Post
    If he doesn't take the offer that means he doesn't want to play for us.
    I believe this to be true also.
    I think he signs the deal.

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  • Sam_Z
    replied
    Originally posted by roushmartin6 View Post
    If Von doesn't take the latest offer Friday he is truely dumb. The amount of money rumored is staggering
    Latest from Mike Klis as he takes a shot at Broncos for fax gate also stated Bowlen would never had let it get this far.

    Leave a comment:


  • Sam_Z
    replied
    Originally posted by roushmartin6 View Post
    If Von doesn't take the latest offer Friday he is truely dumb. The amount of money rumored is staggering
    If he doesn't take the offer that means he doesn't want to play for us.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by Atwnbroncfan View Post
    Really? Do you not remember Von destroying the RT to seal the game against Steelers? He may not have got the stat but the broncos got the game sealing sack because of Von.
    I do. That was a great play at the end of the game. Do you remember the fumble caused by Roby and recovered by Ware? That play was as critical as the one Von made at the end of the game. Steelers were driving and could have gone on to score. If I recall that was the first turnover late in the game.

    The plays made by those other defenders are indisputable - Von was not the one guy that stopped Brady and Roerhlisberger.

    Von is a great player. Elway would not be offering him $70 mil guaranteed if he didn't believe in Von.

    I simply disagree that he is the one player that stopped Brady and Roethlisberger. Did he stop them on some plays - he sure did.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 07-15-2016, 04:05 AM.

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  • roushmartin6
    replied
    If Von doesn't take the latest offer Friday he is truely dumb. The amount of money rumored is staggering

    Leave a comment:


  • Butler By'Note
    replied
    Originally posted by ThreeGees View Post
    IF the Broncos wouldn't have low-balled him on the initial guaranteed money this would have been done weeks ago. Instead of 38.5 million, they should have offered 55-57 million and he likely would have signed on the spot. Now his agent pushes it out as long as he can and he ends up with four years guaranteed. Good thing Paxton is coming in pretty cheap during those four years. BTW I expect Von's numbers to do down next season as he his now flush with cash (see Haynesworth, Suh and DT)
    Haynesworth is a completely different case (although close to Suh in infield issues) but his two best seasons were both contract years. In no other season did he come close to those two in performance. Suh followed his career pattern, good year, down year, good year, down year, good year, down year (last year). But part of that could possibly be a difference in players around him, a different scheme and different coaching. We'll see how he does this year. And Thomas was only really down in touchdowns, overall his numbers were what they've been. And considering a lot of people said that the only reason his numbers were that high were because of Manning, doing that with the QB play the Broncos had last year, can be somewhat encouraging, because it gives an idea of what to expect going forward.

    As for your overall belief the deal gets done if they give a huge guarantee initially, maybe, but business dictates you never give your best offer at the beginning. There's no guarantee that is they offered Miller $55-57 million in guarantees to start that his agent doesn't go for $80 million.

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  • beastlyskronk
    replied
    Originally posted by ThreeGees View Post
    IF the Broncos wouldn't have low-balled him on the initial guaranteed money this would have been done weeks ago. Instead of 38.5 million, they should have offered 55-57 million and he likely would have signed on the spot. Now his agent pushes it out as long as he can and he ends up with four years guaranteed. Good thing Paxton is coming in pretty cheap during those four years. BTW I expect Von's numbers to do down next season as he his now flush with cash (see Haynesworth, Suh and DT)
    That first contract was the better contract IMO. That entire contract would have became fully guaranteed 5 days after his 2nd season. But his agent wanted as much up front as possible and very well may have ended up costing Von more in the long run. Von wouldn't have got cut going into the 3rd year of this contract but he very well could be cut/forced to take a pay cut at the tail end of this current proposal.

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  • ThreeGees
    replied
    IF the Broncos wouldn't have low-balled him on the initial guaranteed money this would have been done weeks ago. Instead of 38.5 million, they should have offered 55-57 million and he likely would have signed on the spot. Now his agent pushes it out as long as he can and he ends up with four years guaranteed. Good thing Paxton is coming in pretty cheap during those four years. BTW I expect Von's numbers to do down next season as he his now flush with cash (see Haynesworth, Suh and DT)

    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by FR Tim View Post
    Did you spend this much time worrying about if Manning delivered last year? His approx. $1M an interception was not exactly a value.

    Expectations need to be tempered. I do not expect to see the SB Miller every week. But the threat that he can be will give many a defensive coordinator and OT sleepless nights. Miller is not just a pass rusher, he goes into coverage, defends passes and plays the run well. Judge him by his overall impact not just his sack total.
    In the stats posted above I included INTs which reflect coverage. In several of my previous posts I provided specific stats on Von's run defense. He is a top run defender. In addition he gets a lot of pressures that don't show up as sacks. I've provided the exact stats on run defense, complete shut downs, pressures and pressures that led to INTs (not in the posts for the Steelers and Patriots games but in other posts).

    I've been more than fair to Von and definitely want him to accept the offer. Expectations will not be tempered - the bar will be raised the instant he signs (if he signs). When Von threatened to hold out if his demands were not met - not play on the franchise tag - to represent the players and NFLPA over the franchise tag - to be the highest paid defender - that comes with high expectations.

    In many of your posts you have referenced that the Broncos need a face of the franchise. That if not for signing Von there would be no player to carry the face of the Broncos franchise. That Von is needed for marketing and all those things that go with being the marquee player.

    He's about to get that contract. No looking back now - if the guarantees in excess of $70 mil are true - expectations will be higher than ever.

    Von will need to backup what so many have said he does - that he is the engine that drives the defense. That he is the one player that the defense must have.

    We can't have it both ways. Being the highest paid defender - does not align with tempered expectations. There have been hundreds of posts that claim he is the difference maker on the Broncos defense; that everything starts with the impact Von makes; that he is the engine that makes the defense run; that he is double-teamed which allows other players to get their sacks; that he terrorizes quarterbacks.

    He's either elite or he's not.

    There are high expectations for players that get the type of contract that Von is about to sign - comes with the territory.
    Last edited by Fantaztic7; 07-14-2016, 10:08 PM.

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  • Atwnbroncfan
    replied
    Originally posted by osfantaztic View Post
    December 20, 2015
    Broncos vs Steelers
    Sacks: M. Jackson (1.5), S. Ray (1.0) and D. Wolfe (0.5). V. Miller (0.0)
    INTs: J. Bush (1.0) and B. Marshall (1.0)

    January 17, 2016
    Steelers vs Broncos
    Sacks: D. Ware (1.0), A. Smith (1.0) and Derek Wolfe (1.0). V. Miller (0.0)

    It was these players and the entire D that shut down Ben - not Von.

    Edit:

    11/29/15
    Patriots vs Broncos
    Sacks: D. Wolfe (1.0), V. Miller (1.0) and V. Walker (1.0)

    1/24/16
    Patriots vs Broncos
    Sacks: D. Wolfe (1.0), V. Miller (2.5) and D. Ware (0.5)
    INTs: V. Miller (1.0) and D. Stewart (1.0)
    Talib/Roby deflected pass/INT on 2 point attempt sealed game.

    Von had a key role in shutting down Tom Brady in the AFCCG - it is clear the entire defense played a significant role in shutting him down.
    Really? Do you not remember Von destroying the RT to seal the game against Steelers? He may not have got the stat but the broncos got the game sealing sack because of Von.

    Leave a comment:


  • Butler By'Note
    replied
    Originally posted by DarkHorse26 View Post
    And you can't presume that it will be cap friendly in the first year either. The fact is we will probably end up with around 40m of cap space in 2017 after Von signs the contract. Then we will have to decide who to let go and who to pay depending on their performances of the following players whose contracts expire.

    DeMarcus Ware
    Emmanuel Sanders
    Britton Colquitt
    Mark Sanchez
    Sylvester Williams
    Darian Stewart
    Vance Walker
    Kayvon Webster
    Ronnie Hillman
    Shaquil Barrett
    Juwan Thompson
    Kenny Anunike
    James Ferentz
    Robert Myers
    Brandon McManus
    Todd Davis
    Jordan Norwood
    Garrett Graham
    Dekoda Watson
    Phil Taylor
    Shiloh Keo
    Brandian Ross
    DeVier Posey
    Cyrus Gray
    Darrion Weems
    Sam Brenner
    Matt Paradis
    Kapri Bibbs
    Bennie Fowler
    Casey Kreiter
    Jordan Taylor
    Zaire Anderson
    Dillon Day
    Cameron Jefferson
    Kyle Roberts
    Manasseh Garner

    This doesn't even include FA signings and rookie contracts.

    You may see 40m stretching pretty far but I don't considering some of the players on that list. Hey, I hope I'm wrong but I foresee some major money issues come 2017 and a lot of tough decisions to make once again.
    How many of those players are actually going to be on the roster in 2017? A bunch of them won't even be in the equation in 2016. And then there's several restricted free agents and ERFA that you've included. And you're failing to account for 7-10 draft picks that the Broncos will have in 2017. etc. etc. etc.

    Then you're failing to think of players who have contracts who may no longer be here, or players who might restructure.

    The picture is however you want to see it, if you feel Denver has no cap room, fair enough. But Elway has shown the ability to work contracts and keep the players they want to keep along with add free agents they want to add.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fantaztic7
    replied
    Originally posted by BANJOPICKER1 View Post
    I'm a nobody here but I have been a Bronco fan since the 70's, I want Miller and I want Sanders signed by tomorrow, I think they make our team a terror and I want them for years to come..I'm not thinking of dollars and all but I would be excited as a fan to have these guys back on our team for years, money works itself out..

    GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Long time no see!

    Another chance to see Cam running for this life from Von, getting sacked and the ball stripped again is worth $70 mil

    Leave a comment:


  • ERoyal248
    replied
    Originally posted by broncoslover115 View Post
    Well regardless, I'd be pissed if he's not a Bronco. Plays with more heart and guts than DT ever does. Maybe he'd cough up some to keep Sanders in Denver.
    Meh players wanna get paid, NFL is Not for Long.

    Not saying i disagree, i hope they can find common ground for both sides.

    Leave a comment:

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