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Mecklenburg takes hard stance against Trevor Siemian

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  • Kansas Bob
    replied
    It seems to me that we have two bright Qb prospects in camp and people are always putting one or the other down. I think Siemian's stats was pretty good being a first year starter and I thought everyone knew when we drafted Lynch that he would need a red shirt year or two! Come on people give them both a chance to learn and improve!
    Mecklenburg has a right to his opinion but has no right to put down Siemian for doing pretty good job under the circumstances. Arron Rodgers had 4 or 5 red shirt years and I think he did pretty good! lol

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  • Butler By'Note
    replied
    Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
    I don't get why coaches do something like this instead of cutting the QB loose and letting him play. I don't understand this way of developing QBs by making them gun-shy passers. Like John Fox instructing Tebow to "beach it". Let the guy play. If he's good, he will throw a bunch of touchdowns. If he's a turnover machine, he's not the answer. I just don't know how you can tell what you really have at QB when you hold the guy back like that. Let it rip. The good ones will rise, the not-so-good ones will fall.
    I'm not sure Fox needed to say that to Tebow, if he lets Tebow throw it there's a 51% chance no one is getting near the football.

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  • -Rod-
    replied
    Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    My feeling on this is that Siemian was instructed and had beaten into his head since he was drafted here to not turn the ball over. Then Sanchez got cut for it. I think Trevor was following the designed plays and throwing to his reads that are open.
    I don't get why coaches do something like this instead of cutting the QB loose and letting him play. I don't understand this way of developing QBs by making them gun-shy passers. Like John Fox instructing Tebow to "beach it". Let the guy play. If he's good, he will throw a bunch of touchdowns. If he's a turnover machine, he's not the answer. I just don't know how you can tell what you really have at QB when you hold the guy back like that. Let it rip. The good ones will rise, the not-so-good ones will fall.

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  • WYBRONCO
    replied
    Originally posted by CoryWinget81 View Post
    My feeling on this is that Siemian was instructed and had beaten into his head since he was drafted here to not turn the ball over. Then Sanchez got cut for it. I think Trevor was following the designed plays and throwing to his reads that are open. I agree with you that it's more than a little ridiculous to expect a 7th round, 2nd year QB, playing injured to start pump faking safties, moving DBs with his eyes, and changing routes to create natural picks and screens.
    I actually think that is hard for any QB to do and not a valid expectation. We need guys to run first down routes or a route that runs them into a first down almost immediately. Brady throws check down routes too. Of course he isn't always trying to complete 3rd and 7+ yds. That is why we have to get more yardage on 1st and 2nd down, or a more valid run offense.
    Last edited by WYBRONCO; 01-26-2017, 08:47 AM.

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  • CoryWinget81
    replied
    Originally posted by -Rod- View Post
    That's on the QB, not the scheme. Every NFL offense has these levels of depths on routes, even on 3rd down. The issue is that Siemian constantly threw short of the sticks because that route was open. It's the QB's job to manipulate the defense and make the more difficult throws to get the 1st down. But there's only so much you can expect from a 7th-round QB getting his 1st real NFL experience.
    My feeling on this is that Siemian was instructed and had beaten into his head since he was drafted here to not turn the ball over. Then Sanchez got cut for it. I think Trevor was following the designed plays and throwing to his reads that are open. I agree with you that it's more than a little ridiculous to expect a 7th round, 2nd year QB, playing injured to start pump faking safties, moving DBs with his eyes, and changing routes to create natural picks and screens.

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  • CoryWinget81
    replied
    Originally posted by Chronoless View Post
    I think hes right, the whole offense coach movement seem like it done for Paxton. I know people are saying thats crazy but the way Trevor played and Paxton played why didnt they just say Trevor will start training camp as starter? Because they are going to give Paxton all the chances he have to win even if it became a tie.
    The funny thing is if they simplify the offense down for Lynch I think Siemian would win that competition too. Unless things really change this offseason, Lynch is still a full season behind Trevor. At the beginning of mini camps, there will be less than 6 months of separation from that and the time Lynch got completely lost after the first 15 plays in Tennessee.

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  • broncoslover115
    replied
    Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
    Attacking offense could simply mean actually throwing for a 1st on 3rd down instead of throwing for 6 when you need 8 and then letting the punter march on field.
    How dare you want something as reasonable as that.

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  • gtown53
    replied
    Originally posted by Chronoless View Post
    I think hes right, the whole offense coach movement seem like it done for Paxton. I know people are saying thats crazy but the way Trevor played and Paxton played why didnt they just say Trevor will start training camp as starter? Because they are going to give Paxton all the chances he have to win even if it became a tie.
    It's a new Head Coach. If Kubiak was still the Head Coach, I'm guessing that Siemian would be going into Camp as the Starter.

    But, with a new Head Coach who hasn't had the benefit of being around the two QBs, Joseph is doing the right thing by saying it as an "Open Competition". With that being said, I don't see Lynch catching up to Siemian anytime soon ............... without a miracle. Of course, if the competition is close, and the Coaching staff sees Lynch as having the higher ceiling, then the job might be just given to Lynch without Lynch earning it.

    AND, there is always the possibility of a Blockbuster Trade or Signing, or another "veteran" brought in like Sanchez was last year.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chronoless
    replied
    I think hes right, the whole offense coach movement seem like it done for Paxton. I know people are saying thats crazy but the way Trevor played and Paxton played why didnt they just say Trevor will start training camp as starter? Because they are going to give Paxton all the chances he have to win even if it became a tie.

    Leave a comment:


  • -Rod-
    replied
    Originally posted by shawinkerpoppin View Post
    Attacking offense could simply mean actually throwing for a 1st on 3rd down instead of throwing for 6 when you need 8 and then letting the punter march on field.
    That's on the QB, not the scheme. Every NFL offense has these levels of depths on routes, even on 3rd down. The issue is that Siemian constantly threw short of the sticks because that route was open. It's the QB's job to manipulate the defense and make the more difficult throws to get the 1st down. But there's only so much you can expect from a 7th-round QB getting his 1st real NFL experience.

    Leave a comment:


  • shawinkerpoppin
    replied
    Attacking offense could simply mean actually throwing for a 1st on 3rd down instead of throwing for 6 when you need 8 and then letting the punter march on field.

    Leave a comment:


  • Butler By'Note
    replied
    Originally posted by haciendadad View Post
    I Joseph wants an attacking offense, that doesn't imply a majority of safe short passes. Sounds like he is thinking of something like an Atlanta Falcons, Patriots, Packers type of offense. Sure, it sounds good but there are a lot of variables that make that possible. Even the Falcons couldn't play like this in previous years, and last year they even had Kyle as the OC. So are we could to see more deep throws by our QBs? Well that makes me nervous because Sanders was much better in those deeper passes but DT wasn't and when we have WRs dropping passes that are catchable it is the QB that still gets blamed in the end because people only look at the stats and count the number of 3 and Outs and then point to the QB. Also, in the few games I saw Lynch play I think he lacked the accuracy that Siemian had even in Siemian's earliest games. Given the pressure I think you will see Lynch not improve enough to take over the starting position unless he has drastic improvement in the offseason. Paxton will just need more time IMO. Mechanics-wise I think Siemian is ahead, athletics-wise I think Paxton is ahead. I don't know much about Paxton but I know that Trevor's parent are both doctors (surgeon and nurse) so assumptions can be drawn there. I know that may sound like a difference like this may not be a big difference but our team FO really wants a capable starter now, and now everything both QBs learned under on regime has to be re-learned for this new regime. Siemian had 2 years to let it soak in, but Lynch had 1. We've seen QBs in this kind of situation have trouble. It is a hard position to learn to the point of muscle memory but when you start over the thinking process slows down again. I just don't know if Lynch will have enough time to overcome the competition.
    It's funny that you mentioned the Patriots, because the majority of their passes are short safe routes. They run receivers (Edelman) on 5 yard choice routes, if the defender is inside he runs a quick out, if the defender is outside it's a slant. These are safe. Then they have passes to the RBs (again short safe routes) and screen passes, and then their risky passes are seam routes to the TE, except normally those passes are to the most dominant TE the NFL has ever seen.

    The Patriots are a very safe offense, they run it well and execute. which is why they have success, but they're not a risky down the field offense.

    Leave a comment:


  • haciendadad
    replied
    I Joseph wants an attacking offense, that doesn't imply a majority of safe short passes. Sounds like he is thinking of something like an Atlanta Falcons, Patriots, Packers type of offense. Sure, it sounds good but there are a lot of variables that make that possible. Even the Falcons couldn't play like this in previous years, and last year they even had Kyle as the OC. So are we could to see more deep throws by our QBs? Well that makes me nervous because Sanders was much better in those deeper passes but DT wasn't and when we have WRs dropping passes that are catchable it is the QB that still gets blamed in the end because people only look at the stats and count the number of 3 and Outs and then point to the QB. Also, in the few games I saw Lynch play I think he lacked the accuracy that Siemian had even in Siemian's earliest games. Given the pressure I think you will see Lynch not improve enough to take over the starting position unless he has drastic improvement in the offseason. Paxton will just need more time IMO. Mechanics-wise I think Siemian is ahead, athletics-wise I think Paxton is ahead. I don't know much about Paxton but I know that Trevor's parent are both doctors (surgeon and nurse) so assumptions can be drawn there. I know that may sound like a difference like this may not be a big difference but our team FO really wants a capable starter now, and now everything both QBs learned under on regime has to be re-learned for this new regime. Siemian had 2 years to let it soak in, but Lynch had 1. We've seen QBs in this kind of situation have trouble. It is a hard position to learn to the point of muscle memory but when you start over the thinking process slows down again. I just don't know if Lynch will have enough time to overcome the competition.

    Leave a comment:


  • haciendadad
    replied
    Originally posted by FL BRONCO View Post
    Disagree totally. I watched him all year. He made some very nice plays for us both regular and in the clutch. He also made some very bad ones. He had a lot of balls that should've been picked that defenders missed. His numbers could be a lot worse. It was his first year. But my thing is, I saw him making the same mistakes at the end of the year as the beginning of the year. I don't think he is the future. But I'm all for a competition and may the best man win.

    This year will be a new offense for both qbs, While Trevor has more experience, I see more upside in Lynch. I would love to see Lynch take the bull by the horns this offseason and take the job this coming one. I would love to see a qb who reminds me of Elway taking over. We shall see.

    I would really love to see a better line and run game to help our young qb develope regardless of which one it is.
    He also had a lot of throws that hit the receivers in the hands and dropped them too, so you can say his numbers could have been a lot better. He definitely had more of these instances than the ones you are referring to. Shouda, coulda, woulda ...

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  • HUMCALC
    replied
    Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post
    Bingo. But if the Broncos finished 2-14 that season, which was what they'd have needed to get Luck, then he could say he gave Tebow a chance, and it didn't work.
    Even if Tebow only won 2 games, they still wouldn't have gotten Luck. Could you imagine if DEN had drafted RG3, Trent Richardson, or Justin Blackmon?

    Leave a comment:

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