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Mike Kliss: Vic Fangio will not be fired after the season

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  • #16
    Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post

    To be fair Lock was playing well under Scangarello. We could argue the reasons why but he looked way more comfortable and confident with Scangarello versus Shurmur.
    He played good in Houston, was okay for part of the Detroit game and was below average to poor in the other 3 games. In those 5 games the Broncos total yards were: 218 v LAC, 391 v Houston, 251 v KC, 348 v Det, 238 v Oak. Passing yardage in those 5 games were: 134 v LAC, 301 v Hou, 199 v KC, 198 v Det, 168 v Oak.

    Was he really playing well under Scangarello or was he okay but the team was winning games?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

      He played good in Houston, was okay for part of the Detroit game and was below average to poor in the other 3 games. In those 5 games the Broncos total yards were: 218 v LAC, 391 v Houston, 251 v KC, 348 v Det, 238 v Oak. Passing yardage in those 5 games were: 134 v LAC, 301 v Hou, 199 v KC, 198 v Det, 168 v Oak.

      Was he really playing well under Scangarello or was he okay but the team was winning games?
      For a first year quarterback who spent most of his time rehabbing and on the bench, yes Lock played well under Scangarello especially given that the type of offense Scangarello operates is rather complex and not what Lock had done in college.

      I definitely think it's fair to say that from a mechanics and a comfort level he looked substantially better under Scangarello than he has under Shurmur.
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      • #18
        Originally posted by mojo0730 View Post

        For a first year quarterback who spent most of his time rehabbing and on the bench, yes Lock played well under Scangarello especially given that the type of offense Scangarello operates is rather complex and not what Lock had done in college.

        I definitely think it's fair to say that from a mechanics and a comfort level he looked substantially better under Scangarello than he has under Shurmur.
        Interestingly enough the QB on Scangarello's new team may have regressed more than any QB in the league. But fair enough, we can agree to disagree on Lock's play last year, but two things are very true:

        1. Scangarello was in way over his head, and wasn't ready to be an OC. Not to say he won't one day be a great OC, but there were too many big red flag issues last year for him to have succeeded this year in Denver. He needed a step back and to learn from more experienced guys.
        2. For whatever reason Lock is playing worse this year than we all would have hoped for. With Daniel Jones being better last year than this year, I don't think we can say that it's because Shula/Shurmur can't work with young QBs. It might actually be as simple as 2nd year QBs in a new system with no offseason are struggling.

        Personally I would bring Fangio and the coordinators back for 2021 (minus Tom McMahon, who has had 3 years and shown no improvement), and I would bring Lock back as the starting QB. I think with the continuity in systems and coaching, an offseason program (might be shortened from normal, but it'll be much more than this year), continuity in the offensive line personnel, and getting weapons back and healthy. There's a reason for optimism that he and the offense should take a massive step forward in 2021.

        And if it doesn't work, you've probably got a new GM heading into 2022, and more than likely a new coaching staff, might as well let them all start fresh with a new QB.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

          Interestingly enough the QB on Scangarello's new team may have regressed more than any QB in the league. But fair enough, we can agree to disagree on Lock's play last year, but two things are very true:

          1. Scangarello was in way over his head, and wasn't ready to be an OC. Not to say he won't one day be a great OC, but there were too many big red flag issues last year for him to have succeeded this year in Denver. He needed a step back and to learn from more experienced guys.
          2. For whatever reason Lock is playing worse this year than we all would have hoped for. With Daniel Jones being better last year than this year, I don't think we can say that it's because Shula/Shurmur can't work with young QBs. It might actually be as simple as 2nd year QBs in a new system with no offseason are struggling.

          Personally I would bring Fangio and the coordinators back for 2021 (minus Tom McMahon, who has had 3 years and shown no improvement), and I would bring Lock back as the starting QB. I think with the continuity in systems and coaching, an offseason program (might be shortened from normal, but it'll be much more than this year), continuity in the offensive line personnel, and getting weapons back and healthy. There's a reason for optimism that he and the offense should take a massive step forward in 2021.

          And if it doesn't work, you've probably got a new GM heading into 2022, and more than likely a new coaching staff, might as well let them all start fresh with a new QB.
          That’s probably what scares people the most about pushing it off a year. Lock more than likely won’t get worse because he’ll have more experience, more weapons, and hopefully a more stable oline. But if he doesn’t progress where does that put us? Probably outside of drafting a top QB so then you’re mortgaging your future on an unproven commodity by trading up which could just as easily send us spiraling further down.

          Personally I think Lock will be ok in time. I don’t think Shurmur has done him any favors with all of the deeper passing plays. Scangerello while not a good OC did keep things very simple for Lock which allowed him to protect the ball. The passing yardage totals didn’t reflect the whole story with Scangerello during his 5 games with Lock but I think the success they had at winning games showed signed that Scangerello was improving. Ultimately he was conservative which is why Vic wanted to go in a different direction, Shurmur is definitely more aggressive and I don’t feel like that’s beneficial for a raw young QB like Lock. If Shurmur placed more emphasis on the short game I believe Lock would be unquestioned in his status as the guy. Shurmur is just asking him to do more than he’s able to right now.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by beastlyskronk View Post

            That’s probably what scares people the most about pushing it off a year. Lock more than likely won’t get worse because he’ll have more experience, more weapons, and hopefully a more stable oline. But if he doesn’t progress where does that put us? Probably outside of drafting a top QB so then you’re mortgaging your future on an unproven commodity by trading up which could just as easily send us spiraling further down.

            Personally I think Lock will be ok in time. I don’t think Shurmur has done him any favors with all of the deeper passing plays. Scangerello while not a good OC did keep things very simple for Lock which allowed him to protect the ball. The passing yardage totals didn’t reflect the whole story with Scangerello during his 5 games with Lock but I think the success they had at winning games showed signed that Scangerello was improving. Ultimately he was conservative which is why Vic wanted to go in a different direction, Shurmur is definitely more aggressive and I don’t feel like that’s beneficial for a raw young QB like Lock. If Shurmur placed more emphasis on the short game I believe Lock would be unquestioned in his status as the guy. Shurmur is just asking him to do more than he’s able to right now.
            I agree with you about Shurmur doing him no favours, but I think he'll be better for Lock longterm than Scangarello would have been. I agree with you, I think Lock will be okay, he just needs time to develop. Josh Allen is rewarding the Bills for their patience, I think Lock will do the same for the Broncos.

            I also agree with people being scared about wasting another season with Lock (if he doesn't improve) but at some point Denver needs to invest time in both QBs and coaching staffs. Right now we (the fanbase) seem to think everything that is poor early will always be poor and we need to replace it immediately. But we fail to realize that we'll probably be in the exact same spot after with the replacements when they don't have success immediately.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Butler By'Note View Post

              I agree with you about Shurmur doing him no favours, but I think he'll be better for Lock longterm than Scangarello would have been. I agree with you, I think Lock will be okay, he just needs time to develop. Josh Allen is rewarding the Bills for their patience, I think Lock will do the same for the Broncos.

              I also agree with people being scared about wasting another season with Lock (if he doesn't improve) but at some point Denver needs to invest time in both QBs and coaching staffs. Right now we (the fanbase) seem to think everything that is poor early will always be poor and we need to replace it immediately. But we fail to realize that we'll probably be in the exact same spot after with the replacements when they don't have success immediately.
              I’m 50/50 on Shurmur being the better long term option over Scangerello just because it seems like Shurmur is set in his offense. Scangerello was still finding his identity as a coordinator and I believe he was more receptive to what Lock wanted to do which made things easier for him. I think they could’ve built something really good together where as with Shurmur, Lock is trying to build himself into that mold instead of coming into the mold naturally as he could have with Scangerello if that makes sense.

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              • #22
                If it's true that Drew Lock has had a different OC during each of the past six years, how does seven in seven years help him become a better QB?
                "Stultum est timere quod vitare non potes." ~ Publilius Syrus

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