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  • #31
    No doubt there is no chance we trade shanny's boy Plummer. But for those wondering who would play qb if we lost plummer, no doubt that garcia would come here if he could start. I cant believe I am responding to this post as if it has a chance in hell. Yh obviously there is no way this is going down. More likely Taylor for one of the franchised rb's that want to leave--Edge or Shaun Alexander. Imagine Freeney and Taylor as your defensive ends. With peyton leading the way getting you an early lead so the ends can strictly rush the qb and tee off. Wooh. Maybe, just maybe if he goes to indy, and they arent sold on rhodes as a starter, indy would consider trading for droughns. But I doubt that.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by ydave77
      No doubt there is no chance we trade shanny's boy Plummer. But for those wondering who would play qb if we lost plummer, no doubt that garcia would come here if he could start. I cant believe I am responding to this post as if it has a chance in hell. Yh obviously there is no way this is going down. More likely Taylor for one of the franchised rb's that want to leave--Edge or Shaun Alexander. Imagine Freeney and Taylor as your defensive ends. With peyton leading the way getting you an early lead so the ends can strictly rush the qb and tee off. Wooh. Maybe, just maybe if he goes to indy, and they arent sold on rhodes as a starter, indy would consider trading for droughns. But I doubt that.
      Yeah, I know there's no chance - Taylor's not going anywhere. But I think this thread is a fine example of how complacent and out of touch we are as fans with the Broncos off season moves over the last few years. It's been since '99 since we've had a playoff win. We continue to bring in players -Marco Coleman, Raylee Johnson, Luther Ellis, Ellis Johnson - to be a "band aid" for our woes without really fixing the problem. Make a splash and actually fix the problem, don't do it half-heartedly. I hate to say it but none of the 33 yr old veteran FAs we bring in are going to resurrect their career here and make an impact. Many top quality guys get dangled out there in FA every year - we should at least make a play to get one or two. If we don't act, we'll spend the next 10 yrs reacting to moves made by others just like we've been doing since '99!

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      • #33
        Originally posted by jojo187
        i heard jason taylor wants out of miami. wut do u think of a trade droughs and plummer for taylor
        Plummer threw for 4100 yards and 29 TDs why would you think about trading plummer and with Droughns...He's a solid back...Griffith is too small...What we need is a good WR...Rod Smith is not going to hold up much longer....Thats my thoughts

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        • #34
          Originally posted by HORSEPOWER 56
          My "no future for Denver" comment was not meant to be a slam by any means. I know it sounded like it but, what I meant was simply, if we continue to only plan for the future we'll never reach it. We have to plan for right now. Waiting to get all the pieces in place and trying desperately to "patch the holes" with 2nd rate player never fixes anything. Guys move on every year and it's impossible to resign quality guys year after year (Berry, Heyward). In order for us to actually win the SB in 98-99 we made a lot of FA moves to get top quality players: Neil Smith, Romo, etc. We don't have the draft picks or status to really bring in elite players that way and even if we did that is a slow process. All the rookies we bring in will probably be hitting their stride 3-4 years from now, not be impact guys right now. In 3-4 years Al will be near retirement, Rod will be retired, D.J. will be lost to another team in FA (because we can't afford/won't spend to keep him), Lynch will be retired, the big hit of Champ's contract will be kicking our butts, Plummer will be all but done. The bottom line is we'll be worse off than now and won't have won squat to to show for it. Filling a position of need with a "band aid" player won't make us competitive, we have to bring in playmakers to fill those positions - like Philly did and NE did (TO and Dillon) and yes, like we did in 98-99. I'd rather see a superbowl appearance followed by a 1-15 true rebuilding season than 8-8 to 10-6 for ten years with no playoff wins. If you don't want to make the effort and take the risks to be a SB contender you might as well play in Detroit or Arizona.
          "if we continue to only plan for the future we'll never reach it. We have to plan for right now." We have to do both if we want stay a successful franchise. We already have our Super Bowl wins in '97 & '98 and you're already prepared for the Broncos to sacrifice the future to maybe, if we're very lucky, win another?

          "Guys move on every year and it's impossible to resign quality guys year after year" You think that is unique to the Broncos? It happens to every team. In the age of the salary cap and free agency, roster instability is a fact of life for all teams. You do the best you can and move forward.

          "SB in 98-99 we made a lot of FA moves to get top quality players: Neil Smith, Romo, etc." "like Philly did and NE did (TO and Dillon) and yes, like we did in 98-99." Neil Smith was about the only really big name guy we brought in, and he was nearing the end of his career. Romo was a mid-level player. McCaffrey was a castoff. I'm not sure any of our free agents were considered "marquee" players, certainly none were the caliber of Owens or Dillon. We signed mostly mid-level guys that we thought could help us, and some did more than others. In recent years, we've still been signing mid-level guys we thought could help us, but we've just had worse luck in that department lately.

          "All the rookies we bring in will probably be hitting their stride 3-4 years from now, not be impact guys right now." You don't think draft picks can contribute in their first couple of years? How about D.J. Williams, and probably Bell & Watts in their second years. How about George Foster, Clinton Portis, Ben Hamilton, Deltha O'Neal (strong in 2nd year), Lenny Walls, Ian Gold, Kenoy Kennedy, Mike Anderson, Al Wilson, Orlandis Gary, Eric Brown, Brian Griese, Dan Neil, Tom Nalen, Trevor Pryce, John Mobley, and some guy named Terrell Davis? All of whom we brought in as rookies and they started contributing in either their first or second seasons. Sure, some players will take 3 or 4 to develop (e.g. Ashley Lelie) but many key players we've brought in have contributed early in their careers and they come much cheaper than the high-priced, big name vets. Lower risk for comparable (and sometimes better) reward. We can't just throw away our drafts in an attempt (no guarantees) to win now.

          "In 3-4 years Al will be near retirement, Rod will be retired" Guys retire all the time. It's a gradual process, as is bringing in their replacements.

          "D.J. will be lost to another team in FA (because we can't afford/won't spend to keep him)" That's quite a negative assumption. The guy plays for us one season, has a 6 year contract, and you're already writing him off as a free agent loss?

          "Lynch will be retired, the big hit of Champ's contract will be kicking our butts" Lynch is not the player he once was. He won't be as difficult to replace as you think. As for Champ's contract, the salary cap gets higher almost every year and if the Broncos still want him, they'll restructure his contract to be more cap friendly in any years of need. (Not this year because his base salary is still relatively low.)

          "Plummer will be all but done." Maybe, maybe not. And there's not exactly a consensus that Jake has what it takes anyway.

          "The bottom line is we'll be worse off than now and won't have won squat to to show for it." How do you know that? You must be able to see into the future to know how our future draft picks and free agent signings and trades will all work out. And there is absolutely no guarantee that we'll have anything to show for it even if we throw away our drafts in an attempt to win now.

          "I'd rather see a superbowl appearance followed by a 1-15 true rebuilding season than 8-8 to 10-6 for ten years with no playoff wins. If you don't want to make the effort and take the risks to be a SB contender you might as well play in Detroit or Arizona." Really? Have you asked Detroit and Arizona fans if they think they're better off than or even on a par with the Broncos?

          Since we lost Elway (and essentially Terrell Davis) we have had one losing season, one .500 season, and four winning seasons with three playoff appearances. True we haven't won a playoff game but we also faced the eventual Super Bowl champs in Baltimore, and were the only team to play the Colts in Indianapolis the past two years where Manning and his receivers are at their peak.

          I'm sorry. But I don't think things are as bleak as you make them out. And I don't want our future to be as bleak as it will be if we sacrifice our current and near future drafts in order to gain high-priced vets that may or may not push us over the top and will be seriously difficult to squeeze under our salary cap.
          "You can't take the sky from me..."
          ------
          "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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          • #35
            Plummer and Droughns...a bit too much for taylor

            I think that that would be a bit too much for taylor...maybe for taylor and a first or second round pick...but getting rid of plummer would be smart now that we have Jeff Garcia wanting to come to Denver! Garcia would be a more constant QB than plummer for sure!

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            • #36
              Tony Jones and Zimmerman were marquee FA acquisitions Javalon. Darrion Gordon was coming off a Pro Bowl season when we signed him as well, I believe.

              Anyhow, I agree with what you responded with. Going nuts trying to win now is about the dumbest thing you can do because there is no guarantee you will win. Look at the Redskins and Titans.

              At the same time, you have to be good in FA and the draft. I would say we are average in the draft and below average in FA. That's why we don't win. Passing up elite DTs for a LB is why we don't win. Lack of foresight is why we don't win. This is one of the strongest LB drafts in recent history, and one of the weakest for DTs. Too bad we can't go back and take Wilfork now, and draft a LB this draft.

              Once again we seem to be ignoring the D-line in FA. The perfect player is available in Marquise Douglas, we ignore him. Instead we want more LBs so we sign Ian Gold. Too bad all that speed at LB is going to be nullified if we don't get a good D-line to occupy blockers in front of them. Warren was a good gamble, but our advances at Okeafor and Fisher made zero sense considering both will cost what Heyward received.

              I think our management is just piss poor. Shanahan coaches ok, but he's moronic when it comes to personnel. He can't get us over the hump. We are spinning wheels. Mainly because we go after the wrong FAs in Free Agency. And mainly because our drafts are just flat out questionable. Williams over D-line? Watts in the 2nd round over D-line? LeSeur in the 3rd round over D-line? And then we lose to the Colts because of our D-line. It's no wonder we are stuck in a rut of mediocrity. Our management is inept.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
                Tony Jones and Zimmerman were marquee FA acquisitions Javalon. Darrion Gordon was coming off a Pro Bowl season when we signed him as well, I believe.
                Zimmerman I'd agree with. I forgot about him. But HP56 is talking about Terrell Owens type players. If Gordon made the Pro Bowl, it wasn't as a cornerback; maybe as a punt returner. He was solid but not elite. And I'm not sure Tony Jones was a Pro Bowler before coming to Denver. He definitely played at a Pro Bowl level for us but we didn't know that when we signed him.

                (Man, you just made me remember how great that offensive line was. )

                At the same time, you have to be good in FA and the draft. I would say we are average in the draft and below average in FA.
                Well, in recent history I would agree with that. Too many recent free agent flops are my biggest gripe. If we had even eked out 3 years each from Gardener and Dale Carter, I wouldn't be quite as critical.

                [quote]Once again we seem to be ignoring the D-line in FA. The perfect player is available in Marquise Douglas, we ignore him.[/quite]
                Yep. Although I'm trying to remain patient since there is still plenty of time for signings to take place. But I would be happier if we addressed our defensive line by doing more than trading for Warren. And I've also been harping on Douglas for awhile. I wish I knew if he was even on the Broncos' radar screen.

                I think our management is just piss poor. Shanahan coaches ok, but he's moronic when it comes to personnel. He can't get us over the hump. We are spinning wheels. Mainly because we go after the wrong FAs in Free Agency. And mainly because our drafts are just flat out questionable. Williams over D-line? Watts in the 2nd round over D-line? LeSeur in the 3rd round over D-line? And then we lose to the Colts because of our D-line. It's no wonder we are stuck in a rut of mediocrity. Our management is inept.
                Well, I don't have the same extreme negative sentiment in this regard. But I definitely think the decision making could stand some solid improvement.
                "You can't take the sky from me..."
                ------
                "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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