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  • Ellis Johnson should be back

    Our only "real" competition was Cincinatti and they just signed Robinson. That suggests to me that there is absolutely no reason Ellis Johnson does not return next season. This would actually be a big boost to our D-line and probably give us solid DT depth for the short term future. Not to mention, we would look a lot less foolish for giving up a 5th round choice to Atlanta in that trade.


    So, here's hoping we can close the deal on him.

  • #2
    do you think he would be better suited to play DE in in a three four.. i also am pretty high on him he did a good job of collapsing the pocket last year
    The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
    While he sits by his hearth at home.
    Quickly finds when questioned by others .
    That he knows nothing at all.

    Comment


    • #3
      He's too short to play DE in a 3-4 theoretically. Part of that job description is closing off passing lanes with your arms.

      I think he's a NT in a 3-4, where he played in Atlanta. And a solid rotational DT in a 4-3. Resigning him gives the team a good degree of flexibility. Right now, with the way the rest of the offseason has gone, not being able to bring him back would be a massive blow.

      Comment


      • #4
        Aggreed... so if denver decides to run a three four part time this year as it has been suggested...do you rotate warren and johnson at NT... and luther ellis was a dolid contributor .. i also like paleopi speed on the end.. how would you line up the D in a 3-4 and a 4-3
        The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
        While he sits by his hearth at home.
        Quickly finds when questioned by others .
        That he knows nothing at all.

        Comment


        • #5
          d-line

          Personally, IMO, I would really like to see what G. Warren could do on the end in a 3-4 part time. I think Warren could really benefit from being moved around a little. He was a very gifted d-lineman at Florida who could not be given the opportunity to succeed with Cleveland, there was no foundation in that organization to succeed on. If E. Johnson does re-sign, rotating him with Fatafehi and maybe a 2nd rd NT like Pouha, Castillo or Patterson would make a lot of sense to me. Then Warren could easily be moved around as an end & NT in a 3-4, or play DT in the 4-3.
          Personally this is how I'd like to see our d-line depth play out next season. I feel it would be very adequate with the strength of the defense right behind them in the LB's.

          G. Warren- 3-4 NT or DE or 4-3 DT
          E. Johnson- 3-4 NT or 4-3- DT- re-signed - likely to happen
          M. Fatafehi- 3-4 NT or 4-3 DT
          L. Ellis- 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT
          Courtney Brown- DE in either alignment-- would need to be signed after released
          S. Pouha/L. Castillo- NT - 2nd round draft choice
          M. Pope- 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT
          D. Davis- 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT
          M. Coleman- DE in either alignment - excellent mentor and leadership for C. Brown
          A. Palepoi- a 4-3 DE

          I know this does not include a 1st round pick. This pick could be traded up or traded down. Traded up for J. Brown or traded down to pick up someone like V. Jackson and additional picks.

          Comment


          • #6
            in the event that we are going to use both the 4-3 and the 3-4, i would think that we would have to run the 4-3 most of the time!! if you run the 4-3 you keep more DL, in the 3-4 you keep more LB's. so there is no way you can keep extra DL and LB's so we have to go in one direction or the other!! But if we run a base 4-3 and then mix things up goto the 3-4 you can probally get away with having 5 or 6 LB's?? What you guys think??

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jletourneau
              Personally, IMO, I would really like to see what G. Warren could do on the end in a 3-4 part time. I think Warren could really benefit from being moved around a little. He was a very gifted d-lineman at Florida who could not be given the opportunity to succeed with Cleveland, there was no foundation in that organization to succeed on. If E. Johnson does re-sign, rotating him with Fatafehi and maybe a 2nd rd NT like Pouha, Castillo or Patterson would make a lot of sense to me. Then Warren could easily be moved around as an end & NT in a 3-4, or play DT in the 4-3.
              Personally this is how I'd like to see our d-line depth play out next season. I feel it would be very adequate with the strength of the defense right behind them in the LB's.

              G. Warren- 3-4 NT or DE or 4-3 DT
              E. Johnson- 3-4 NT or 4-3- DT- re-signed - likely to happen
              M. Fatafehi- 3-4 NT or 4-3 DT
              L. Ellis- 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT
              Courtney Brown- DE in either alignment-- would need to be signed after released
              S. Pouha/L. Castillo- NT - 2nd round draft choice
              M. Pope- 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT
              D. Davis- 3-4 DE or 4-3 DT
              M. Coleman- DE in either alignment - excellent mentor and leadership for C. Brown
              A. Palepoi- a 4-3 DE

              I know this does not include a 1st round pick. This pick could be traded up or traded down. Traded up for J. Brown or traded down to pick up someone like V. Jackson and additional picks.
              thanks for the response! i had never thought about putting warren asa DE in the three four howis his first move.. does he have much speed? and am i correct when i say that one of the DE in a three four is actually just another tackle?
              The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
              While he sits by his hearth at home.
              Quickly finds when questioned by others .
              That he knows nothing at all.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Broncosinindy
                thanks for the response! i had never thought about putting warren asa DE in the three four howis his first move.. does he have much speed? and am i correct when i say that one of the DE in a three four is actually just another tackle?
                He has a quick first move. Warren is wasted as a NT IMO.

                The DEs in a 3-4 are DTs in a 4-3. They are generally desired to be around 6'3" or taller with good wingspan and around 300lbs. They are generally lane cloggers first, but are allowed to rush on occasion. That's why you see more tackles and less sacks with a 3-4 DE.

                Warren should be a DE in a 3-4, but he is also the biggest guy we have and makes a good NT too. I doubt he wants to play NT though, he likes to rush and NTs do not get sacks. That could become a problem.

                You are correct though because when you move the OLB (Chukurah or Palepoi) up to the D-line on pass rush situations, the DE slides inside as a DT. Thus, for maximum flexibility you want DTs as DEs on both sides in a 3-4, so you could scoot them down either directly and bring your OLBs on either side at any given time.

                Comment


                • #9
                  would you stick DJ on the inside backer position in a 3-4 to utilize the talents palepoi and chucurah at teh ouside backer?i from what i seen last year and by no means am i a expert but i like the hussle from both those guys seem like they made some tackeles on guys coming from behind seems like they dont take off many plays
                  The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
                  While he sits by his hearth at home.
                  Quickly finds when questioned by others .
                  That he knows nothing at all.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Broncosinindy
                    would you stick DJ on the inside backer position in a 3-4 to utilize the talents palepoi and chucurah at teh ouside backer?i from what i seen last year and by no means am i a expert but i like the hussle from both those guys seem like they made some tackeles on guys coming from behind seems like they dont take off many plays

                    In a 3-4, there is absolutely zero doubt Williams moves inside with Wilson. Zero. Gold can only play outside and Williams is not big enough to line up as a downlineman at the other OLB spot. Terry Pierce, once again, is a backup. That draft pick looks completely wasted for a high 2nd rounder.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
                      In a 3-4, there is absolutely zero doubt Williams moves inside with Wilson. Zero. Gold can only play outside and Williams is not big enough to line up as a downlineman at the other OLB spot. Terry Pierce, once again, is a backup. That draft pick looks completely wasted for a high 2nd rounder.
                      Well, consider him depth, then, mug......something you say is most desirable, correct?
                      Nothing wrong with having a guy at the ready, should his services become necessary because of an injury to wilson.
                      "It does not take a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
                      tireless minority keen on setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of
                      men."

                      -- Samuel Adams

                      sigpicJacks RULE!!!!!!

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                      • #12
                        Pierce

                        do remember, Pierce was only drafted that high by Denver because of Al Wilson's contract status for the following year. At that point in time, it appeared that the Broncos were going to be willing to let Wilson depart until they recoginized during the course of the year the irreplaceable presence he brought to the leadership of the team. Had Wilson left, we might be singing a different tune about Pierce. It would be very easy to look with hindsight and call Pierce a wasted pick, but he has not exactly had a full opportunity yet. I would like to see more production out of Pierce, but he is not an OLB and that is where his small chance has come. I'm thankful he's not had a chance because that would mean that Al Wilson had gone down.
                        Pierce could very possibly fulfill his potential at ILB in the 3-4 scheme, but with that scheme Denver has to have an OLB pass rush presence that neither Williams or Gold would bring. Pierce was drafted in a cost cutting plan to allow Wilson to leave, thankfully the Broncos changed their mind. Should they have decided to keep Wilson sooner and drafted someone else, yes. But we would have crucified management in that sense too. Hindsight will always allude to better possibilities, but sometimes you have to accept the bad with the good to get the best. For the time being, and for the sake of having Al Wilson I am willing to accept Pierce as solid depth with potential.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
                          In a 3-4, there is absolutely zero doubt Williams moves inside with Wilson. Zero. Gold can only play outside and Williams is not big enough to line up as a downlineman at the other OLB spot. Terry Pierce, once again, is a backup. That draft pick looks completely wasted for a high 2nd rounder.
                          I read Williams doing both because of his versitility. Right now I'm inclined think he will be the outside and here's why. There are may teams who run a 3-4 and small outside linebacker. The Steelers have had guys like Lloyd and Greene who never lined up in three point stand. LT one the the best linebacker to every play the game never lined up in three point stance. Cornelius Bennett when he was with the Bills the same thing. Even in 3-4 the DE line up over the tackle so its not like he Williams would be made up on OT. Also I believe has the not only the speed to stay with a TE but also the strength to fight him off at the line. Whether we go to the 3-4 as the base or not Coyer and Shanahan both feel that Pierce has alot of talent. So I think he'll get a crack at being an inside linebacker in a 3-4.
                          John 11: 25-27

                          My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



                          Thanks Snk16

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TXBRONC
                            I read Williams doing both because of his versitility. Right now I'm inclined think he will be the outside and here's why. There are may teams who run a 3-4 and small outside linebacker. The Steelers have had guys like Lloyd and Greene who never lined up in three point stand. LT one the the best linebacker to every play the game never lined up in three point stance. Cornelius Bennett when he was with the Bills the same thing. Even in 3-4 the DE line up over the tackle so its not like he Williams would be made up on OT. Also I believe has the not only the speed to stay with a TE but also the strength to fight him off at the line. Whether we go to the 3-4 as the base or not Coyer and Shanahan both feel that Pierce has alot of talent. So I think he'll get a crack at being an inside linebacker in a 3-4.
                            Valid opinion and good points.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jletourneau
                              do remember, Pierce was only drafted that high by Denver because of Al Wilson's contract status for the following year. At that point in time, it appeared that the Broncos were going to be willing to let Wilson depart until they recoginized during the course of the year the irreplaceable presence he brought to the leadership of the team. Had Wilson left, we might be singing a different tune about Pierce. It would be very easy to look with hindsight and call Pierce a wasted pick, but he has not exactly had a full opportunity yet. I would like to see more production out of Pierce, but he is not an OLB and that is where his small chance has come. I'm thankful he's not had a chance because that would mean that Al Wilson had gone down.
                              Pierce could very possibly fulfill his potential at ILB in the 3-4 scheme, but with that scheme Denver has to have an OLB pass rush presence that neither Williams or Gold would bring. Pierce was drafted in a cost cutting plan to allow Wilson to leave, thankfully the Broncos changed their mind. Should they have decided to keep Wilson sooner and drafted someone else, yes. But we would have crucified management in that sense too. Hindsight will always allude to better possibilities, but sometimes you have to accept the bad with the good to get the best. For the time being, and for the sake of having Al Wilson I am willing to accept Pierce as solid depth with potential.
                              Great reminder. I suppose remembering the purpose for which Pierce was drafted qualifies the pick, but since we have him on our roster and used up a 2nd round selection on him, we should have found a spot for him to play by now.

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