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  • Cugel
    replied
    Originally posted by OhNoKoolAid
    Well, it is all relative according to the price you pay for each. Abraham will demand Trevor Pryce figures, whereas Brown will be half of Hayward's, I'm assuming. So the risk is significantly elevated when you consider Abraham's price tag and injury history.

    That said, the two shouldn't be compared because they play different positions. Brown has become more of a left end, being able to play the run and the pass. Abraham is a pure right end, improving against the run, but an elite pass rusher. If remotely possible, Denver could pursue both, because they would become next season's book ends. I think it is possible to afford Abraham if Pryce is dealt in the deal.
    That's my point! Abraham is an elite pass-rusher and Denver DESPARATELY needs just that! The guy who strikes fear into offensive coordinators and makes the QB release the ball before he wants to or get "happy feet" and move out of the pocket because he feels the heat! Trevor Pryce used to be that guy, but last year he was injured and now he's gone!

    I don't get the sense that Shanahan is even considering this opportunity however, so the whole thing is probably moot. At least according to the Post, the players being considered include: Brown, Atlanta defensive tackle Ed Jasper and former Baltimore Ravens defensive end Marques Douglas, and Bengal Tony Williams.

    None of those guys (including Brown) is remotely in Abraham's class. If he's healthy, Abraham could get 10-15 sacks and force defenses to adjust to him. Combined with Warren occupying blockers and Ian Gold speed rushing from the LB position, the Broncos might actually generate a significant pass rush this season! That would be a VERY welcome change.

    P.S.: One reason Shanahan might not be considering this is if he really IS going for a DL in the draft (Dan Cody, Erasmus James, David Pollack, Demarcus Ware. . . come on down!) and needs to trade Pryce to move up on draft day and have a chance at the player he wants.
    Last edited by Cugel; 03-20-2005, 09:16 AM.

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  • OhNoKoolAid
    replied
    Originally posted by Cugel
    Here's something to consider: in only 12 games last year, Abraham had 9.5 sacks. Consider that Hayward had 10.5, tops on the Broncos! So in only 3/4 of a season Abraham essentially equalled Hayward sack total.

    If Abraham is healthy (for the first time since 2002) he'd be an awesome addition. With him on the DL we would be in MUCH better shape entering into the season. With Warren occupying blockers and Abraham on the end the DL would instantly shift from a weakness to a strength (still not the best in the league or anything, but a strength nonetheless).

    I'd be a LOT less concerned about the season under that scenario and I'd FAR rather take a chance on Abraham staying healthy than Brown!

    What do you think?
    Well, it is all relative according to the price you pay for each. Abraham will demand Trevor Pryce figures, whereas Brown will be half of Hayward's, I'm assuming. So the risk is significantly elevated when you consider Abraham's price tag and injury history.

    That said, the two shouldn't be compared because they play different positions. Brown has become more of a left end, being able to play the run and the pass. Abraham is a pure right end, improving against the run, but an elite pass rusher. If remotely possible, Denver could pursue both, because they would become next season's book ends. I think it is possible to afford Abraham if Pryce is dealt in the deal.

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  • Cugel
    replied
    Here's something to consider: in only 12 games last year, Abraham had 9.5 sacks. Consider that Hayward had 10.5, tops on the Broncos! So in only 3/4 of a season Abraham essentially equalled Hayward sack total.

    If Abraham is healthy (for the first time since 2002) he'd be an awesome addition. With him on the DL we would be in MUCH better shape entering into the season. With Warren occupying blockers and Abraham on the end the DL would instantly shift from a weakness to a strength (still not the best in the league or anything, but a strength nonetheless).

    I'd be a LOT less concerned about the season under that scenario and I'd FAR rather take a chance on Abraham staying healthy than Brown!

    What do you think?

    Another point to consider: The Jets would NEVER have franchised Abraham unless they were convinced he would be healthy. You don't pay that kind of elite DL money unless you're sure the guy can play.
    Last edited by Cugel; 03-19-2005, 07:26 PM.

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  • lobosfootball93
    replied
    Originally posted by rcsodak
    I'd be inclined to say that TP with a 2nd or 3rd would prolly suffice. I'm not so sure they'd get hung up about not getting a first rounder if they got TP also.
    Yea, i get what your sayin, but whats the cap room situation and would we have enough money for him?

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  • rcsodak
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
    Abraham of the Jets has surprisingly decided not to sign the franchise tender offered by the club and will hold out unless traded.

    Its a pretty ballsy move that is going to force the Jets hand. Early rumor is Dallas is the front runner if they offer one of their 1st round picks.

    Tony Agnone, his agent, will start to actively seek a trade from now until July 15th.

    A trade of Pryce and our 1st round pick, combined with good salary cap space next season, makes this a possibility if we miss out on Courtney Brown. Realistically, we are only going to pay top money to one DE. Abraham would give us the OLB/DE rover type we currently do not have, unless you count Chukurah and Palepoi, who are both unproven at that type of position.

    The question becomes is the risk for spending big bucks on the injury prone, but extremely talented Brown, a better option then spending the big bucks and trading a 1st round pick, on the more dynamic playmaker Abraham?

    Just some food for thought.
    I'd be inclined to say that TP with a 2nd or 3rd would prolly suffice. I'm not so sure they'd get hung up about not getting a first rounder if they got TP also.

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  • SimonSteele
    replied
    Originally posted by TXBRONC
    How do you gamble on Abraham when he wasn't available until yesterday?
    When I say "should have" that implies a move in the past, I understand that, but since going into the past and making moves are impossible I thought I would post what would have been better as opposed to what happened. If you misunderstood I am sorry, but I did not intend to imply we actually SHOULD HAVE done it, the point of the short post was to say we've already picked up a possible trouble player on the line, we don't need another, TOO BAD it couldn't have been Abraham. It wasn't, isn't, due to multiple reasons, as you so awesomely pointed out in your above post, timing being a major factor. Thanks.

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  • MFJ
    replied
    Originally posted by NZrichy
    What about Byrce Fisher? 8.5 sacks last year.

    http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133284
    Seattle signed Bryce yesterday to a 4 year contract, to bad, could of been a cheap, durable pick up.

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  • welshbronco
    Guest replied
    Lol Eabort! Better buy some extra protective gear for the Broncos next year if he's drafted! More players with that kind of passion is just what the team needs though I'd say.
    Last edited by ; 03-17-2005, 02:16 PM.

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  • eabort
    replied
    Originally posted by welshbronco
    I quite like Matt Roth myself big and fast - the best of both worlds. What do u guys think about him?
    Hey! It's so cool to have a Bronco fan from Wales! Here is the NFL report on Roth:

    "Roth is regarded as one of the premier pass rushers in the collegiate ranks and one of the toughest players in the country. He is a blue-chip prospect with a blue-collar work ethic. Roth is a colorful character who plays the game as if he is on a "search and destroy" mission. He is the source of a campus urban legend, as many Hawkeyes talk of the time Roth challenged and cleared out an entire bar in a fight.

    Even in practices, the coaches have to pray he stays under control. They will generally blow the whistle early on plays, so Roth does not hurt any of the offensive players. There are times when he plays with such intensity in practices that the coaches must sit him down, even for walk-throughs.

    With an additional 10 pounds of muscle on his frame in 2004, Roth put together a banner senior season, earning All-America honors. He ranked fourth in the Big Ten Conference with eight sacks and registered 15 stops for losses (sixth in the Big Ten), eight pressures and 49 tackles (34 solo) while leading the conference with three forced fumbles.

    Roth is a well-built athlete with a powerful upper body, long arms, broad shoulders, quick feet, above-average explosion off the snap, narrow hips, and thick thighs and calves. His quickness allows him to be very effective on stunts, playing with his hand down wide to the open side to get after the quarterback instantly coming out of his stance. He does an excellent job of generating a strong hand punch, showing good extension to keep blockers off his body to shed.

    Roth plays with superb field awareness and has very good agility for his position, making plays in pursuit. He demonstrates an explosive initial burst and can flash upfield, displaying fine foot agility when dropping off in pass coverage. Roth comes off his stance ready to deliver forceful inside counter moves on his upfield rush and has excellent recovery speed in pursuit. While he might be a little stiff in his hips and can sometimes come off the snap a little high in his stance, he uses his power to gain leverage and is very combative with his arms (rip and swim moves) to prevent blockers from containing him.

    Roth has the short-area agility to penetrate the line, collapse the pocket and pressure the quarterback, doing a very nice job of keeping his feet as he works well transferring his weight. He has developed into a disruptive pass rusher who gains leverage with his strong straight-ahead charge off the snap. Roth stays in control and has a sharp and sudden burst coming off the edge as a pass rusher. He also uses his short-area speed to collapse the pocket and bring down the quarterback in the backfield.

    His lateral and upfield quickness allow him to consistently get past the offensive tackle when attempting to penetrate. Roth generates explosion as a pass rusher and is very fluid delivering secondary moves after his initial thrust into the pile. He might need to add bulk to play at the next level, but his upper-body strength is evident by the way he can rip, stalk and drag blockers down with his hands.

    Roth uses an explosive first step to gain advantage, but when he gets high in his stance (mostly when redirecting inside), he struggles to disengage, but his lateral agility lets him slip off blocks. He has very good leg drive and lower-body strength to gain leverage and prevent the opponent from moving him out when coming off the edge. Roth is best when playing on the move, as he has an uncanny knack for sifting out the play, spotting the ball and then squeezing through tight spaces to zero in on the ball carrier or passer.

    His hands are a great asset, as he is very effective delivering good spin and swim moves to penetrate the backfield, control blockers and keep separation. He takes dead aim on the quarterback and has the explosive burst to get to his man. Roth is a high-energy type who does a good job of clearing his feet when chasing."

    He looks like a stud to me! As long as he doesn't hurt our own players.

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  • OhNoKoolAid
    replied
    Originally posted by welshbronco
    I quite like Matt Roth myself big and fast - the best of both worlds. What do u guys think about him?
    Is not fast, nor exceptionally quick. He will struggle to turn the corner in the NFL. Might make a decent left end if he'll add more bulk and play the run better, but right now, he doesn't fit the Broncos needs as a pass rusher. Is overrated by his "blue collar" persona. Personally, I like the fact that Erasmus James is slipping down the board, and that Justin Tuck is climbing into the first round. Both would be better selections than Roth.

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  • welshbronco
    Guest replied
    matt roth

    I quite like Matt Roth myself big and fast - the best of both worlds. What do u guys think about him?

    Leave a comment:


  • eabort
    replied
    Originally posted by jletourneau
    Spears would be a steal for the Broncos, but he will NOT by there at 25. No doubt he would be a great addition though, but the Broncos probably do not have enough firepower to trade up high enough to get him. Too many teams switching to the 3-4, Spears is a hot commodity.
    He may be gone by the time we pick, but stranger things have happened in players sliding in drafts. I hope Spears slides to us! Probably a long shot!

    Are you on the Ware band wagon or do you have another player you are wanting us to draft? Thanks for your thoughts!

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  • jletourneau
    replied
    Spears

    Originally posted by eabort
    I've seen a few people excited about DeMarcus Ware and can't figure out why he is the most coveted for our first pick. He's not big at 247Lbs and seems more suited to play OLB where we already have DJ and Gold. Unless you see one of them moving inside. That would still leave the hole on the DL.

    I would rather make a push for Marcus Spears 298Lbs who, IMO, draws a double team by mid-year freeing up the LB to cause all kinds of touble for opposing teams. Unless you feel like he will already be gone by our pick (Mocks have him going as early as top ten and as late as last three).

    It just seems to me there are other players that would be a better fit.
    Spears would be a steal for the Broncos, but he will NOT by there at 25. No doubt he would be a great addition though, but the Broncos probably do not have enough firepower to trade up high enough to get him. Too many teams switching to the 3-4, Spears is a hot commodity.

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  • NZrichy
    replied
    What about Byrce Fisher? 8.5 sacks last year.

    http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133284

    Leave a comment:


  • eabort
    replied
    Originally posted by Black59Razor
    Sign Marcellus Wiley and Draft DeMarcus Ware, and trade Trevor for Chad Brown....

    I would like the look of things alot better then...
    I've seen a few people excited about DeMarcus Ware and can't figure out why he is the most coveted for our first pick. He's not big at 247Lbs and seems more suited to play OLB where we already have DJ and Gold. Unless you see one of them moving inside. That would still leave the hole on the DL.

    I would rather make a push for Marcus Spears 298Lbs who, IMO, draws a double team by mid-year freeing up the LB to cause all kinds of touble for opposing teams. Unless you feel like he will already be gone by our pick (Mocks have him going as early as top ten and as late as last three).

    It just seems to me there are other players that would be a better fit.

    Leave a comment:

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