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  • A new option at DE popped up today

    Abraham of the Jets has surprisingly decided not to sign the franchise tender offered by the club and will hold out unless traded.

    Its a pretty ballsy move that is going to force the Jets hand. Early rumor is Dallas is the front runner if they offer one of their 1st round picks.

    Tony Agnone, his agent, will start to actively seek a trade from now until July 15th.

    A trade of Pryce and our 1st round pick, combined with good salary cap space next season, makes this a possibility if we miss out on Courtney Brown. Realistically, we are only going to pay top money to one DE. Abraham would give us the OLB/DE rover type we currently do not have, unless you count Chukurah and Palepoi, who are both unproven at that type of position.

    The question becomes is the risk for spending big bucks on the injury prone, but extremely talented Brown, a better option then spending the big bucks and trading a 1st round pick, on the more dynamic playmaker Abraham?

    Just some food for thought.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
    Abraham of the Jets has surprisingly decided not to sign the franchise tender offered by the club and will hold out unless traded.

    Its a pretty ballsy move that is going to force the Jets hand. Early rumor is Dallas is the front runner if they offer one of their 1st round picks.

    Tony Agnone, his agent, will start to actively seek a trade from now until July 15th.

    A trade of Pryce and our 1st round pick, combined with good salary cap space next season, makes this a possibility if we miss out on Courtney Brown. Realistically, we are only going to pay top money to one DE. Abraham would give us the OLB/DE rover type we currently do not have, unless you count Chukurah and Palepoi, who are both unproven at that type of position.

    The question becomes is the risk for spending big bucks on the injury prone, but extremely talented Brown, a better option then spending the big bucks and trading a 1st round pick, on the more dynamic playmaker Abraham?

    Just some food for thought.
    It would be quite a dilemma. We don't have that many picks to begin with, do really think it would be wise to give up a opportunity to someone younger in the draft?
    John 11: 25-27

    My Adopt-A-Bronco is D.J. Williams



    Thanks Snk16

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    • #3
      Abraham

      I half to agree that since I read the story this morning I've been conflicted over whether or not Abraham is worth pursuing or not. No doubting his talent, he brings a true pass rush from a need position. But, it worries me once he gets his contract. A couple of things to consider:

      What would Pryce bring alone? Will he net a 2nd or 3rd round pick? Doubt a 2nd, MAYBE a 3rd. Essentially, would we trade a 1st and 3rd & cap room for Abraham? In this scenario I think I would rather have the 1st for someone like Ware and the 3rd for much needed depth at D-line, O-line, WR, S, etc. The cap room could still net us someone like R. DeMulling along with a D. Ware and J. Bullocks with the picks. That's not a trade I'd be interested in.

      If Pryce will only do enough to move us to #16 in rd. 1, It is a 16 & some cap space for Abraham. In this case, I would like the trade because it would be closer to E. James or T. Johnson straight up for Abraham. The 16th pick will command a higher salary and signing bonus than 25 and lessen the amount of cap savings.

      IMO, it all depends on what kind of conversations Shanahan has had regarding Pryce. If he can get a 3rd rd. pick for him straight up, I'd make that move and get the cap savings and stay at 25. If Pryce will simply be this year's D. O'Neal, John Abraham would be worth the gamble of trading him & 25 for Abraham. Here's to a WISE move by Shanahan, the Broncos cannot afford a blunder this offseason amidst their cap strapped position.

      Comment


      • #4
        If Denver management really thinks they are as close to being a Superbowl team as management claims, then yeah, I think going after Abraham and coughing up the draft pick/picks is a move to deeply consider.

        Abraham is pretty young, the concern is specifically money and durability. When healthy he can dominate a game like Ray Lewis. We do not have a player like that currently unless Ian Gold plays lights out and is allowed to blitz often.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jletourneau
          I half to agree that since I read the story this morning I've been conflicted over whether or not Abraham is worth pursuing or not. No doubting his talent, he brings a true pass rush from a need position. But, it worries me once he gets his contract. A couple of things to consider:

          What would Pryce bring alone? Will he net a 2nd or 3rd round pick? Doubt a 2nd, MAYBE a 3rd. Essentially, would we trade a 1st and 3rd & cap room for Abraham? In this scenario I think I would rather have the 1st for someone like Ware and the 3rd for much needed depth at D-line, O-line, WR, S, etc. The cap room could still net us someone like R. DeMulling along with a D. Ware and J. Bullocks with the picks. That's not a trade I'd be interested in.

          If Pryce will only do enough to move us to #16 in rd. 1, It is a 16 & some cap space for Abraham. In this case, I would like the trade because it would be closer to E. James or T. Johnson straight up for Abraham. The 16th pick will command a higher salary and signing bonus than 25 and lessen the amount of cap savings.

          IMO, it all depends on what kind of conversations Shanahan has had regarding Pryce. If he can get a 3rd rd. pick for him straight up, I'd make that move and get the cap savings and stay at 25. If Pryce will simply be this year's D. O'Neal, John Abraham would be worth the gamble of trading him & 25 for Abraham. Here's to a WISE move by Shanahan, the Broncos cannot afford a blunder this offseason amidst their cap strapped position.

          Excellent Points. I agree. This is one of those decisions that is extremely hard to make as either route could prove disastrous. Not doing the trade, finding no value for Pryce and having to cut him, would be bad. Not doing the trade, trading Pryce for a 3rd, and having the 1st and 3rd round picks be busts would be bad.

          Then again, doing the trade and having Abraham get hurt every season would be a bust.

          I think there is less risk depending on Abraham then on two draft picks. Not to mention, it's going to be very hard for two draft picks to have the effect on a game that Abraham does, even if their contributions are combined.


          It's just a tough, tough choice. I think with this draft lacking "surefire" difference makers on defense outside the top 2-3 guys, I would take the gamble on Abraham for Pryce and the 1st round pick. If it was a stronger draft, then probably not.

          Comment


          • #6
            Shanahan

            I do think Shanahan knows that if a pool becomes available still this offseason, he needs to make a splash. I know that he does not like the perception that within the last week the Broncos have been spurned by Lehr, Garcia, Frerotte, B. Robinson, and previously by Okeafor. This on top of losing Hayward, Kennedy, probably Herndon and Carlisle. Doesn't exactly speak volumes for Denver's ability right now to put the "right" pieces in place. Shanahan is used to getting the player's he targets. He does not always target the right pieces, but he usually can get what he tries for. But if Mike is going to try and make a splash, he better make sure there's a pool there first. Otherwise we'll all be standing by watching him cannon ball onto a dried out field.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think Abraham is definitely worth a first round pick (especially if it's 25). It would be nice if we could wait on him until draft day (which I doubt - he'll probably be gone by then). If on day one, we see that a lot of our prospects(good DEs) are/will be gone by the time we pick, Shanny makes a phone call and sends our pick and Pryce to the Jets for Abraham. The question is, would you give up Shaun Cody - who a lot of you guys are high on - for John Abraham?

              Comment


              • #8
                Abraham's injuries worry me, I'd be happier taking someone in the first round, and using the previously mentioned 3rd rounder to shore up on O-line. We are thin enough at guard as it is. Losing Carlisle forces our hand, unless Sewell is decent enough to move to guard we will need to pick someone up.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
                  Abraham of the Jets has surprisingly decided not to sign the franchise tender offered by the club and will hold out unless traded.

                  Its a pretty ballsy move that is going to force the Jets hand. Early rumor is Dallas is the front runner if they offer one of their 1st round picks.
                  The Cowboys were supposed to be working toward a trade for Darren Howard of the Saints. So, I'm wondering if the Abraham possibility is in addition to or instead of the Howard trade talks.

                  Perhaps the Broncos could have a shot at trading for the leftovers.
                  "You can't take the sky from me..."
                  ------
                  "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EMCF
                    Abraham's injuries worry me, I'd be happier taking someone in the first round, and using the previously mentioned 3rd rounder to shore up on O-line. We are thin enough at guard as it is. Losing Carlisle forces our hand, unless Sewell is decent enough to move to guard we will need to pick someone up.
                    I'm not quite as worried about our o-line just because we have a pretty good track record at developing talent there. I'll grant you, I don't know if it was all Alex Gibbs, but we've had a decent time of grabbing guys low in the draft and making them productive in our system, kinda like we've done with TEs.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Javalon
                      The Cowboys were supposed to be working toward a trade for Darren Howard of the Saints. So, I'm wondering if the Abraham possibility is in addition to or instead of the Howard trade talks.

                      Perhaps the Broncos could have a shot at trading for the leftovers.

                      The Saints want a first for Howard, the Cowboys are supposably offering a 2nd and a conditional future pick (rumored to be up to a 2nd next season). Howard is essentially a slightly better Reggie Heyward, a bit more proven and more complete versus the run. However, he has injury issues.

                      I would be extremely depressed if we trade our 1st round pick for Darren Howard. If we are going to spend that much money on that type of player, then Heyward should have been resigned for no loss of draft pick.


                      Abraham is on an entirely different level. I would feel good about that trade.


                      The thing with Dallas though is that Abraham makes alot more sense then Howard. Unless, Dallas wants a DE for their 3-4 and plans on cutting Glover after June 1st. Then Howard makes sense. Abraham would probably be considered on top of Howard as an OLB/DE rover. Theoretically, the Cowboys could afford both players both in terms of draft picks for the trades, and in terms of long term salary deals. Dallas already has had a tremendous offseason, if they net both of these guys, it's going to border on ludicrous.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        thatd be SPECTACULAR


                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DeuceOfClub
                          We know the Jets are interested in Putz.. so why not trade him for J.A and throw a late draft pick if we were to pursuit him.

                          I didn't consider that. Another potential twist....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            yeah except they signed dilger


                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
                              The Saints want a first for Howard, the Cowboys are supposably offering a 2nd and a conditional future pick (rumored to be up to a 2nd next season). Howard is essentially a slightly better Reggie Heyward, a bit more proven and more complete versus the run. However, he has injury issues.

                              I would be extremely depressed if we trade our 1st round pick for Darren Howard. If we are going to spend that much money on that type of player, then Heyward should have been resigned for no loss of draft pick.


                              Abraham is on an entirely different level. I would feel good about that trade.


                              The thing with Dallas though is that Abraham makes alot more sense then Howard. Unless, Dallas wants a DE for their 3-4 and plans on cutting Glover after June 1st. Then Howard makes sense. Abraham would probably be considered on top of Howard as an OLB/DE rover. Theoretically, the Cowboys could afford both players both in terms of draft picks for the trades, and in terms of long term salary deals. Dallas already has had a tremendous offseason, if they net both of these guys, it's going to border on ludicrous.
                              As far as the injury issue goes, I'm not sure there's that big of a difference:

                              John Abraham games played: 2002 - 7, 2003 - 12
                              Darren Howard games played: 2002 - 8, 2003 - 13

                              Disregarding injuries, Abraham does seem to bring a little more to the table but not so much as to make it a clear-cut issue. In either case, I would hope we could package Trevor Pryce as part of a deal in order to reduce the draft picks we'd have to throw in and also freeing up some of the cap space we'd need to take on the new acquisition's salary.

                              If we could get either of these guys in a decent trade including Pryce and then maybe pickup Strahan (assuming he gets cut) or another solid DE, followed by another defensive lineman or two in the first three rounds of the draft, I would feel amazingly better about our defense going into this season.
                              Last edited by Javalon; 03-16-2005, 10:06 AM.
                              "You can't take the sky from me..."
                              ------
                              "You can't shake the Devil's hand and say you're only kidding"

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