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Initial Texas, Virginia, USC Pro Day results....Benson, S. Cody were terrible.

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  • mr williams52
    replied
    wouldnt castillo be a reach though.... is he worth taking with a first rounder?

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  • PsychoChicken
    replied
    There's 5 guys I could imagine the Broncos taking at #25. 4 of them should definitely be there.

    Marcus Spears will probably fall to us because of his knee injury. I would love this pick.

    Demarcus Ware is a DE/OLB that is rumored to be the Broncos pick. I wouldn't like this because Ware is useless in the 3-4 and even in the 4-3, his size would probably make him a linebacker.

    Justin Tuck is like Demarcus Ware, only he's bigger and he's actually played against top notch competition. I wouldn't mind if we took him.

    Mike Patterson, you should already know enough about just by reading this thread.

    Luis Castillo is a big DT with great speed. He is a former wrestler, too. I would really like this him if Spears is gone.

    Leave a comment:


  • mr williams52
    replied
    so who do you guys see us drafting assuming we stay with the 25th pick now that cody will likely be a late first or second rounder???

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  • myoung
    replied
    For what its worth I just listened to the Kiper chat and he has Cody and Patterson both at late first round but most likely second round picks after the pro day yesterday.

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  • myoung
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
    The information should be out tomorrow. Gil Brandt is broadcasting his stats now, but he is usually completely wrong as he goes by his time and not what the scouts/official times are. Hence, he has Benson running a low 4.5, while not 1 scout out of 50+ timed Benson under 4.61, most being above 4.61. Brandt has been consistently completely off on the vast majority of what he reports on NFL.com because he tries to get it out to the public immediately without validating his times. The only thing he gets right are the height/weight measurements and jumps. Scout.com is the most respected and insanely mammoth scouting paysite on the web, they also have their own scouts at every major pro day, so I just wait on them to report as they are never wrong. Free public information seemingly is never correct.


    Cody is without a doubt behind Patterson at this point. I'm not so sure he was ever truly above Patterson in the minds of the scouts. Patterson is short, but so was Booger McFarland and he was drafted as the 1st DT in his draft. Patterson is better then McFarland at this point in time as well. Patterson is the best pass rushing DT in this draft by far and away. I think he is a top 25 pick.

    Castillo is competing with Patterson for the number 2 DT spot. He's put up ridiculous numbers and is definitely above Cody as well. His only problem was at Northwestern he didn't really get to pass rush alot and the competition was not as impressive. Otherwise, he's probably the top DT in this draft based off his stats. I think he is a very end of the 1st round pick to the Falcons or Eagles.


    Shaun Cody is now competing for the 4th DT spot with Antajj Hawthorne and John Babineaux. I think he's going to fall behind Babineaux but stay ahead of Hawthorne who had an even worse showing. CJ Mosely is fast approaching this group as well.
    Still not sure I completely agree with this but I certainly appreciate your opinion on it. I know Castillo put up sick numbers at the combine but I think he is still a second round pick. He moved significantly to get to that point. Patterson I still see mostly reported as an early second round pick. Cody would have to be considered at that point.

    The issue with Patterson is not whether he is the same size as a guy drafted several years ago. The issue is that he is far and away the smallest DT prospect in the draft. That is where it hurts and why we are not talking about him with Johnson. He is the only prospect under 6 ft tall. I know that he had a good vertical but alot of the passes that are knocked down in the NFL are done so without a real jump. So I think this is still a downside for him. He is also under 300 lbs and doesn't have the frame to carry much more so he is always going to be a smallish DT. This doesn't bother me but it is definately a sticking point with scouts. So I think he will fall a little further than you think. But that is why we have these little discussions.

    I really like Patterson, as it is apparent that you do as well, I would prefer him over Cody and I always have. My point is that I think we could try to position ourselves for a top 5-10 second round pick and get 2 guys that I want.

    The guys I would like at our position and in the early second include; Demarcus Ware, Vincent Jackson, Patterson, and Pool. I would like to get in a spot to get two of these guys. I would also like to do it without giving up our late second round pick (though I know this is probably not possible) as I would really like one of the top guards in the draft as well.

    With as much time as the team has been spending with Jackson I would not be surprised to see this as our pick come draft day.

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  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Originally posted by myoung
    I am a little confused by a couple of your statements. Do you think he is rated higher than Patterson or lower at this point?

    I thought I read that you had said Patterson and Castillo had lapped him. At this point I still question whether Patterson has jumped Cody because of the lack of ideal size and the college production difference. I agree with you that Cody slipped. I am just not clear at this point how far. The information is still a bit weak from alot of the scouting places.
    The information should be out tomorrow. Gil Brandt is broadcasting his stats now, but he is usually completely wrong as he goes by his time and not what the scouts/official times are. Hence, he has Benson running a low 4.5, while not 1 scout out of 50+ timed Benson under 4.61, most being above 4.61. Brandt has been consistently completely off on the vast majority of what he reports on NFL.com because he tries to get it out to the public immediately without validating his times. The only thing he gets right are the height/weight measurements and jumps. Scout.com is the most respected and insanely mammoth scouting paysite on the web, they also have their own scouts at every major pro day, so I just wait on them to report as they are never wrong. Free public information seemingly is never correct.


    Cody is without a doubt behind Patterson at this point. I'm not so sure he was ever truly above Patterson in the minds of the scouts. Patterson is short, but so was Booger McFarland and he was drafted as the 1st DT in his draft. Patterson is better then McFarland at this point in time as well. Patterson is the best pass rushing DT in this draft by far and away. I think he is a top 25 pick.

    Castillo is competing with Patterson for the number 2 DT spot. He's put up ridiculous numbers and is definitely above Cody as well. His only problem was at Northwestern he didn't really get to pass rush alot and the competition was not as impressive. Otherwise, he's probably the top DT in this draft based off his stats. I think he is a very end of the 1st round pick to the Falcons or Eagles.


    Shaun Cody is now competing for the 4th DT spot with Antajj Hawthorne and John Babineaux. I think he's going to fall behind Babineaux but stay ahead of Hawthorne who had an even worse showing. CJ Mosely is fast approaching this group as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • myoung
    replied
    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
    The thing to watch with Cody is his short shuttle time and the scouts' opinions on how he did with his positional workouts. The 3-cone is more useful then the 40 time for a D-lineman but not as key as the short shuttle.

    What we know as of now...

    Is that Cody looked bad, or at least worse then expected of a 1st round pick, at his positional drills.

    We know he does have good strength, so that didn't hurt him.

    We know his 3-cone drill was very average-poor. A big discrepency between the 2 times. Travis Johnson ran a 4.5 3-cone.

    I think Cody is in competition with John Babineaux now for the DT picked at the top of Rd. 2.
    I am a little confused by a couple of your statements. Do you think he is rated higher than Patterson or lower at this point?

    I thought I read that you had said Patterson and Castillo had lapped him. At this point I still question whether Patterson has jumped Cody because of the lack of ideal size and the college production difference. I agree with you that Cody slipped. I am just not clear at this point how far. The information is still a bit weak from alot of the scouting places.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Originally posted by Black59Razor
    How did he stack up against Thomas Davis?

    Brian Urlacher's Pro Day stats:

    6'3, 258lbs, 4.56 40, 27 reps, 4.19 short shuttle, 6.94 3-cone, 34 vertical.


    LaVar Arrington's Pro Day stats:
    6'3, 250lbs, 4.55 40, 20 reps, 4.28 short shuttle, *No 3-cone data, 37 vertical.


    Thomas Davis' Pro Day stats:
    6'0, 227lbs, 4.44 40, 12 reps, 3.97 short shuttle, 7.09 3-cone, 36.5 vertical.


    Derrick Johnson's Pro Day stats:
    6'3, 243lbs, 4.56 40, 21 reps, 3.87 short shuttle, 7.20 3-cone, 37.5 vertical.


    And then of course the biggest factor, which can't be measured here is how they did in their positional drills.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Mosley Notes

    Originally posted by Black59Razor
    Do you like CJ Mosley?
    3/23/2005
    With the number of teams moving to a 3-4, there have been a lot of articles on players who fit the system. While most of the concentration has been on LSU’s Marcus Spears and USC’s Shaun Cody, there is a player flying a little under the radar in Missouri DT/DE C.J. Mosley. At 6-foot-3, 305 pounds, Mosley is an impressive combination of size, strength, quickness, and speed. Ability wise, he is in the class of Spears and Cody. He also appears to be a good effort player. The primary difference is that he hasn’t played much in a two gap system and has a long way to go technique wise. Mosley is a player desperately in need of a good DL coach and might take an extra year to develop, but might be considered a steal a year from now.


    "Vikings Target Mosely"

    Linebacker and defensive tackle might be the positions with the most dramatic changes from top to bottom on the Vikings’ roster entering the 2005 NFL Draft.

    At defensive tackle, the Vikings have obtained nose tackle Pat Williams in free agency to place alongside Kevin Williams. Last year’s breakthrough rookie free agent, Spencer Johnson, will move to a reserve role, and unrestricted free agent Chris Hovan will move to another NFL team. Steve Martin, acquired during free agency last year, didn’t show enough consistency to guarantee him a roster spot in 2005.

    So the options for the Vikings at defensive tackle are wide open entering the April 23-24 draft, and they have shown an interest in C.J. Mosley, a 6-foot-2, 314-pound junior out of Missouri.

    In an interview with Scout.com, Mosley revealed that Vikings defensive line coach Brian Baker traveled to Columbia, Mo., to work out one of the draft’s top defensive tackles.

    "It was fun. Coach Baker came down to Columbia, Mo., and worked me out," Mosley said. "I thought he was going to kick my butt, honestly. He said he saw me run at the combine and he was like ‘Man, I know you can run. Conditioning is not a problem. I just want to see you move, how you rip and react and everything.’ … I think he was satisfied with everything he saw. He did kick my butt in the very last drill. He ran me through like a rabid dog."

    Mosley is considered versatile enough to play either tackle position but can get out of control, according to one analysis. He might be best as the under tackle in the Vikings defense.

    Mosley was the last man invited to the NFL Combine in February, but that didn’t stunt his confidence.

    "Learning what I’ve learned, I know that I can damn near out-produce a lot of the D-tackles that are ranked above me or that are ranked up there. I would have to say I’m a sleeper," he said.

    That might be best for the Vikings’ chances of drafting Mosley, as they probably wouldn’t spend a high draft pick on a player that might need to add weight and wouldn’t be expected to vie for a starting job in 2005. He is the eight-ranked defensive tackle in the draft, according to Scout.com, and the only junior among the top 20 at his position.

    While he learned he can compete with some of the top rookie-to-be talent at the position and said he doesn’t think he has a weakness that’s been pointed out to him yet, he was disappointed with the sustained speed he showed at the combine. His 40-yard dash time was a disappointment to him, he said.

    "I got clocked anywhere from a 5.05 to a 5.1. I weighed in at 314 at the combine. My fastest 40 was a 4.89, so I wanted to run a 4.9, anywhere from 4.95 to 4.96. I was disappointed in that," he said.

    So far, the biggest knock on Mosley’s game might be the way he faces double teams. According to one analysis, he tries to take on both players instead of defeating one. But Mosley says he can split the double teams.

    "The zone blitz defense that we ran … if you’re across the center’s face, most likely you’re going to get double-teamed by the center and the guard. If you’re quick enough, you can split it," he said.

    He is considered an aggressive player who is better on the move than he is making reads at the snap of the ball. But, is he too aggressive?

    "I don’t think so. If you make smart plays, not at all," Mosley said. "You’ve got to be aggressive to play the game of football. My sophomore year I played real calm and made sure I did the right things. But junior year, I pushed it up — I tried to be more violent. There ain’t no friends on the field at all. I had to learn the hard way."

    That aggressive style helped lead him to 167 tackles, 15.5 sacks and 38 tackles-for-loss in 36 games (27 starts) at Missouri.

    He was in the center of a defense that was ranked 14th in the nation in 2004, and he was named first-team All-Big 12 by the Associated Press and was the team’s defensive lineman of the year.

    While not everyone knew a lot about Mosley at the start of the offseason since he was a junior declaring early, other teams besides the Vikings are showing interest as well.

    He talked to almost every team at the combine, he said, and has since heard from the New York Jets, Oakland Raiders, Kansas City Chiefs and Atlanta Falcons.

    "I’ll be happy when I get drafted and know where I’m going," Mosley said.

    The Vikings would be happy if he slipped to them at some point in the draft.

    Leave a comment:


  • OhNoKoolAid
    replied
    Originally posted by myoung
    Good post MUG. I think this will really hurt Benson. It may actually help us offload Rueben as some of the top tier teams may not jump on Benson as high. the Auburn boys should definately be 1-2 now.

    I am not sure how much Cody hurt himself. I don't think anyone projected him as a 4-3 DE. There are a ton of DTs in the league that run that time or less. I think it hurt but overall there are very few good DTs in the draft. I do think it will help establish Johnson as the top guy at that position. I think Cody will fall back with some of the other second round prospects.
    You just cannot mess with back injuries and linemen. I realy don't see how any team with a legitimate need at DT or DE will mess with him until the end of the second. Also, he is big, but he isn't big waisted and doesn't anchor well to begin with, and without a healthy back, he cannot anchor period. Cody is in no man's land, he lacks speed and quickness for end, and a bad back and girth for 4-3 defensive tackle. If you want him at a 3-4 end, watch his games at USC, he was a quickness and penetrating guy in college, not an anchor and gap control guy. His production will allow him to get drafted in the mid second, and when healthy he can be good, but he is a major gamble, and in my book, may be passed up by the two Missouri kids.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Originally posted by myoung
    Good post MUG. I think this will really hurt Benson. It may actually help us offload Rueben as some of the top tier teams may not jump on Benson as high. the Auburn boys should definately be 1-2 now.

    I am not sure how much Cody hurt himself. I don't think anyone projected him as a 4-3 DE. There are a ton of DTs in the league that run that time or less. I think it hurt but overall there are very few good DTs in the draft. I do think it will help establish Johnson as the top guy at that position. I think Cody will fall back with some of the other second round prospects.

    The thing to watch with Cody is his short shuttle time and the scouts' opinions on how he did with his positional workouts. The 3-cone is more useful then the 40 time for a D-lineman but not as key as the short shuttle.

    What we know as of now...

    Is that Cody looked bad, or at least worse then expected of a 1st round pick, at his positional drills.

    We know he does have good strength, so that didn't hurt him.

    We know his 3-cone drill was very average-poor. A big discrepency between the 2 times. Travis Johnson ran a 4.5 3-cone.

    I think Cody is in competition with John Babineaux now for the DT picked at the top of Rd. 2.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    Derrick Johnson after Pro Day Interview.

    http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/8320534


    Sounds like he delivered on being the best LB prospect since Ray Lewis.

    Leave a comment:


  • myoung
    replied
    Good post MUG. I think this will really hurt Benson. It may actually help us offload Rueben as some of the top tier teams may not jump on Benson as high. the Auburn boys should definately be 1-2 now.

    I am not sure how much Cody hurt himself. I don't think anyone projected him as a 4-3 DE. There are a ton of DTs in the league that run that time or less. I think it hurt but overall there are very few good DTs in the draft. I do think it will help establish Johnson as the top guy at that position. I think Cody will fall back with some of the other second round prospects.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mat'hir Uth Gan
    replied
    I'm sure Cody sat on his combine bench press, he had a very impressive 34 reps. Strength is certainly not an issue with Shaun, which is more of an asset at DT then DE.

    Patterson did not lift at the combine, so he certainly did today. He can bench 500 lbs and squat 700, so he better of tossed up 30+ reps as well. Though as long as you get over 25, you're considered pretty strong.

    Leave a comment:


  • PRBronco
    replied
    I really like patterson, definitely can't wait to hear about the rest of his test results. Razor scared me off with some of those comparisons to anthony adams, so i looked up how adams did in college, and he didn't come close to patterson's performance. Patterson's athleticism is definitely superior, lookin forward to hear how he did.

    Leave a comment:

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