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  • #16
    Cool It

    Did the ravens need terrel suggs when they already had boulware and thomas and mccrary still...no. Demarcus Ware will be a pass rushing maniac, aka dwight freeney. Freeney was in the same boat eddy (undersized DE, pro OLB), would u wanna pass on a player like that?

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Broncology
      Stop preaching your Vincent Jackson "he's gonna go in the first round" BS -- it's not going to happen. He's not even close.
      chill already, I'm NOT the only one on the board saying this stuff (at least 2 other mock drafts in this forum have him at #30 overall) and the bottom line is NONE of us really know what will happen, you included.

      In fact, you yourself responded to MUG's mock, who has Jackson going 1st round like you say he's not even close to, by saying the following:

      "By far one of the most well-thought out drafts I've seen. EVER.

      Love you Mat'hir"


      Don't tell me mentioning Jackson in this breath is BS when it is included in your compliment of someone else. That's a load of crap.

      I DO NOT think V. Jackson is a first round prospect, but rumor has it ONE team does and that is Pittsburgh. I believe he is firmly planted in the 2nd round where I doubt if he gets passed Pitt in round 2.

      I know that a bunch of sites have him listed below plenty of other receivers, BUT EVERY team has a different list. We do not know if PITT really is interested, or if its a smokescreen. But you cannot discount the possibility. I DON'T know, and NEITHER DO YOU!

      I simply replied in this thread in the first place to the fact nfldraftcountdown.com though Denver would get him with a 3rd round comp pick. That almost surely won't happen either. That is the only reason he was brought up in the first place so get off your high horse and realize that we really don't know with so much smokescreening out there.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by jletourneau
        chill already, I'm NOT the only one on the board saying this stuff (at least 2 other mock drafts in this forum have him at #30 overall) and the bottom line is NONE of us really know what will happen, you included.

        In fact, you yourself responded to MUG's mock, who has Jackson going 1st round like you say he's not even close to, by saying the following:

        "By far one of the most well-thought out drafts I've seen. EVER.

        Love you Mat'hir"


        Don't tell me mentioning Jackson in this breath is BS when it is included in your compliment of someone else. That's a load of crap.

        I DO NOT think V. Jackson is a first round prospect, but rumor has it ONE team does and that is Pittsburgh. I believe he is firmly planted in the 2nd round where I doubt if he gets passed Pitt in round 2.

        I know that a bunch of sites have him listed below plenty of other receivers, BUT EVERY team has a different list. We do not know if PITT really is interested, or if its a smokescreen. But you cannot discount the possibility. I DON'T know, and NEITHER DO YOU!

        I simply replied in this thread in the first place to the fact nfldraftcountdown.com though Denver would get him with a 3rd round comp pick. That almost surely won't happen either. That is the only reason he was brought up in the first place so get off your high horse and realize that we really don't know with so much smokescreening out there.
        I believe I have a better idea than most people on this board over what's going to happen. I started out a few years ago when I was 15; getting really into anticipating the draft -- so far my mock drafts have risen in grade and I expect no less this year.

        I didn't have time to criticize all of his picks, but certainly that's one of them. Other than that and a few others, I love his mock draft.

        I'm not picking on you just because it's you, I get after you because of the redundancy in your arguments about Jackson.

        If I had to say where he'd go earliest, yeah -- it'd be to Pittsburgh in Round II.

        I much like my high horse; you can kick me off of it once your predictions happen.

        Comment


        • #19
          That's the problem though, it's not MY argument about Jackson. I am only responding to those who say Jackson will go in the 3rd round and no higher.

          I am not arguing the fact that he is one of the top 5 receivers in this draft. I am arguing that no one can say he is not going #30 to Pitt or early to mid 2nd round. None of us know for sure, because people who are a lot more saavy with a lot more experience will make the decisions that will be best for their team.

          Jackson't stats and measurables simply support the fact that there is interest in him at that point in the draft. I am not some local colorado guy who is in love with a local star. I am not a huge Jackson supporter, BUT, I do understand the fact that his stock has risen with a few teams since the combine. It takes a great deal to have a receiver's stock soar as quickly as Jackson's did coming from such a small school competition wise.

          Finally, enjoy your high horse while you can, because eventually broader perspectives will kick you off it while you stand so proudly. There are a lot of perspectives out there, we don't have to agree with them, but we should learn to appreciate them without kicking them from our own. Especially at such a young age. Just my opinion.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by WABronco
            Did the ravens need terrel suggs when they already had boulware and thomas and mccrary still...no. Demarcus Ware will be a pass rushing maniac, aka dwight freeney. Freeney was in the same boat eddy (undersized DE, pro OLB), would u wanna pass on a player like that?
            Ware is nowhere near Freeney, same type, yes...Ware would be great if we stayed in the 4-3, or switched to 3-4, and never of signed Gold...but we did...we invested a lot of money in him. Ware probably deserves to start somewhere at OLB...at OLB!..I don't care what the ravens did 2 years ago, LB is the strongest part of this team, so why would we draft another LB in the first round, when not only do we have great starters, we have depth also...it'd be like the colts drafting reciever or quarterback in the first round...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by jletourneau
              That's the problem though, it's not MY argument about Jackson. I am only responding to those who say Jackson will go in the 3rd round and no higher.

              I am not arguing the fact that he is one of the top 5 receivers in this draft. I am arguing that no one can say he is not going #30 to Pitt or early to mid 2nd round. None of us know for sure, because people who are a lot more saavy with a lot more experience will make the decisions that will be best for their team.

              Jackson't stats and measurables simply support the fact that there is interest in him at that point in the draft. I am not some local colorado guy who is in love with a local star. I am not a huge Jackson supporter, BUT, I do understand the fact that his stock has risen with a few teams since the combine. It takes a great deal to have a receiver's stock soar as quickly as Jackson's did coming from such a small school competition wise.

              Finally, enjoy your high horse while you can, because eventually broader perspectives will kick you off it while you stand so proudly. There are a lot of perspectives out there, we don't have to agree with them, but we should learn to appreciate them without kicking them from our own. Especially at such a young age. Just my opinion.

              The people who I've talked to, which are some of the best mock drafters in the world, (Scott Wright is a prime example) are all in agreement that they think Jackson is superb talent, but due to some raw characteristics and lack of experience against top notch competition will more than likely cause him to fall.

              Comparing Mike Williams to Vincent Jackson is asinine; they're not even in the same league.

              If Vincent Jackson's measurables and all that jazz in the combines (in which he out-performed Williams in almost everything) really mattered, why wouldn't his stock be ahead of his?

              Jackson runs poor routes, he sucks at running after the catch, he's inconsistent and plays way below the level he could. Poor effort = poor performance. Also, most people aren't so sure he'll even play WR in the pros, he's rather hybrid.

              I agree he's an interesting prospect and I'd love to have him on our team, but I just do not see him going in the first round. Depending on what goes on, (even though most pro days are over) his stock right now will remain the same. I wouldn't doubt that Denver or Pittsburgh would try to bury this guy with their pick in the second round.

              As I sort through my pages upon pages of rankings, I currently have him at #11 now.

              If Vincent Jackson put up the numbers he did on a team like Michigan who plays against some of the most competitive schools in the nation, versus top notch cornerbacks and secondary -- Jackson is firmly in the first round and could be taken before anyone else. The reasons I've stated along with wide-support and consensus in the "Draft Pundant Community" make me believe he's not first round talent nor do I believe he's early to mid second round. I believe that the needs for other teams contribute to his stock being much lower than it is.

              I'm not sure whose articles you're reading which indicate his stock has "soared" -- when you search for any articles or information relating to Vincent Jackson, you hardly get any results, especially anything pertaining to how his stock has went up. When I first broke down the receivers, I had him firmly at fifteen, he's went up four since then, which doesn't really equate to "soaring" through rankings. That's not only me, that's a consensus among a lot of draft pundants.

              I see eight receivers going in rounds one and two, along with Heath Miller -- so that makes nine.

              My age has nothing to do with this conversation whatsoever.

              If you're going to down me for being 18 in several weeks -- I could dig you up my mock draft from last year in which I obliterated Mel Kiper, "the best" in the world.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Broncology
                Stop preaching your Vincent Jackson "he's gonna go in the first round" BS -- it's not going to happen. He's not even close.

                He's a legit factor to be drafted by the Steelers. I'm not sure if another team is willing to draft him in the first round, but Pittsburgh is. Every year you have 2-3 guys who are considered reaches drafted in the first round that no one projected.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I would love for us to get Jackson with either our 2nd or 3rd pick!
                  sigpic

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mat'hir Uth Gan
                    He's a legit factor to be drafted by the Steelers. I'm not sure if another team is willing to draft him in the first round, but Pittsburgh is. Every year you have 2-3 guys who are considered reaches drafted in the first round that no one projected.
                    That's absolutely true.

                    I didn't see Babin as a #1 last year.

                    I figured Perry could go in the first round, but I didn't ever think the Bengals would take him.

                    Buffalo going for Losman last year surprised me too.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Once again, I am not arguing for Jackson to go in the first round or to be above Mike Williams, plain and simple, I am not.

                      I am arguing that he has similar measurables and workout performances to Williams who is the second, if not the best WR in this draft. The similarities are obvious, you said it yourself. Williams' size and speed are what make him such an enticing prospect. Enough so that he has jumped up draft boards into the top 5 despite sitting out a year.

                      Jackson is not and probably will not be listed as a late first or early second round player preceding the draft, but that does not mean that a team will not take the chance.

                      I agree with you that he is of the hybrid mold. In fact, I believe that is why Pittsburgh is so high on him. He is a perfect fit for a team who needs to replace Plaxico's size that also needs a tight end. It is this hybrid mold that has NFL scouts everywhere scouring the NCAA tournament for the next Antonio Gates.

                      Jackson's measureables and workout stats place him in elite first round company, but his competition drops him considerably. But when all is said and done, all it will take is one team who thinks the positives outweigh the level of competition. Jerry Rice, Walter Payton, Andre Reed, Shannon Sharpe, John Mobley, Terrell Owens, etc. etc. All of which are from very small schools. There are also a number of small schoolers who have been complete busts.

                      Jackson is not polished by any means, but that is also what puts the gleam in many teams' eye. He is a work in progress and his combine allows teams to know that the foundation is there. I would bet there are teams who have him graded as low as the 5th round. But I would also bet there are teams strongly considering him late first (Steelers only) or early to mid second.

                      Simply put, Jackson has that boom or bust potential. He has the measurables to allow him to grow into stardom, but he may never get there or even close. He could become Shannon Sharpe like or he could be the next Rickey Dudley. I would be ticked off if the Broncos used their first round pick on him, but who am I to say. The earliest he will likely go and it would be a stretch would be #30 to Pitt. I think the most likely place he'll be selected is around 45-65.

                      All I was saying in the first place in this thread is that he almost definitely won't be there when the Broncos pick with their compensation pick. The stats were simply there to show why I don't think he'll be there at the end of the 3rd round.

                      Last but not least, I was not attacking your age, but was pointing out that the arrogance of "enjoying your high horse" as you say will eventually get you kicked off if you do not learn to broaden your perspective past yourself and realize that none of us understand it all, in any area. But age does limit each of our perspectives. Myself included. I do not think age is the determining factor by any means, but I do firmly believe that pride always comes before a fall.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I have to argue the Third round. I think we will take a CB and Marion Barber with our third Rounders.

                        "OFTEN IMITATED NEVER DUPLICATED!"

                        "....knee injuries did something opposing defenses could not. Stop Terrell Davis."

                        "My Last game in a Cardinals uniform, I heard them say...."WE WANT JAKE.....WE WANT JAKE!!! and all the while I was thinking, "I want you too."- Jake Plummer

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by RebelSyxx
                          I have to argue the Third round. I think we will take a CB and Marion Barber with our third Rounders.
                          I wouldn't doubt the cornerback part, I have to agree that one compensatory pick will be placed for secondary use.

                          Marion Barber is rising up the boards. I don't think he goes past Jacksonville in the second round, to be quite honest, he either goes to the Buccaneers or Cardinals in round two.

                          Fason and Barber III will be going all out for the #4 running back taken in this draft.

                          Cedric Houston could be given consideration at #101.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by RebelSyxx
                            I have to argue the Third round. I think we will take a CB and Marion Barber with our third Rounders.
                            I would be very surprised if Barber III is there in the third round...his stock is improving, and could go early in the second round...plus RB depth isnt really a need for us...I'd like another corner with one of those third rounders, and o-line depth with the other, or maybe take a shot at the punter from Tennessee....

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by EddyMac87
                              I would be very surprised if Barber III is there in the third round...his stock is improving, and could go early in the second round...plus RB depth isnt really a need for us...I'd like another corner with one of those third rounders, and o-line depth with the other, or maybe take a shot at the punter from Tennessee....
                              I agree, but I do think that running back could be a need.

                              Tatum Bell will likely get the starting job.

                              Reuben Droughns future is still in question.

                              Kyle Johnson could be he starting fullback, since he blocks better and catches better.

                              Quentin Griffin and Mike Anderson both had bad injuries, I have a feeling Anderson is going to be cut and I'm not sure if Griffin is going to be 100%.

                              Hopefully Bell and Johnson do not get injured. I see them as the only two people who I expect to be on our roster (as of now next year).

                              Cecil Sapp is there too.

                              If Droughns stays, I don't think we'll have to draft a running back that early, but I wouldn't mind if we did in the first place.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Broncology
                                I agree, but I do think that running back could be a need.

                                Tatum Bell will likely get the starting job.

                                Reuben Droughns future is still in question.

                                Kyle Johnson could be he starting fullback, since he blocks better and catches better.

                                Quentin Griffin and Mike Anderson both had bad injuries, I have a feeling Anderson is going to be cut and I'm not sure if Griffin is going to be 100%.

                                Hopefully Bell and Johnson do not get injured. I see them as the only two people who I expect to be on our roster (as of now next year).

                                Cecil Sapp is there too.

                                If Droughns stays, I don't think we'll have to draft a running back that early, but I wouldn't mind if we did in the first place.
                                Barber will probably be a great player and all, but i never even consider RB depth a problem, mostly because i don't think Droughns will leave...no one wants him..why? I dont know...

                                but i think we have 2 or 3 quality starters already here, and Barber could make it 4...these comp picks are a great time to get some good o-line depth, which will be handy in the future, where as barber may never get a chance to shine at RB for us if we take him...

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