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  • Worst and best moves...

    I have been thinking about a lot of issues as the annual Draft is tomorrow and our division is only getting tougher. I still think we have a chance to win the division but I do not think we can win the biggest championship. Shanahan has really made some bad choices in this off season, well in my mind at least. Read more and then I want everyone elses two cents!

    Best moves: Contract restructures, Brown's D-Line additions, Signing Brown, Palepoi, Davis, Pope and signing Dayne. Trading Droughns to Cleveland and trading our 4th round pick for Warren. Letting Hayward go was a plus also.

    Worst moves: Signing Coleman, Ellis and Gold. Keeping Pryce and restructuring his contract, keeping Lepsis and the Washington trade. Re-signing Walls coud be a disaster as well. Keeping Plummer in Denver.

    Now listen before everyone starts throwing eggs. Hahahaha!

    Signing Coleman and Ellis does bring some veterans back but not like they were that big of a boost to our team, we could have signed younger defensive lineman for the platooning, especially the way Denver likes to get those cut by other teams. Gold for the money in my mind is not worth it we could have picked up a great linebacker in the 2nd round of the draft, the linebackers are falling far into the second cause of other teams needs. And Gold's financial hurt us cap wise. Pryce we could have traded for a 3rd round pick at least or maybe even a 2nd round pick. He is possibly going to be a factor if he throws a fit cause Brown and Ekuban are better. I do not think he will move to tackle this season and it will cause major problems and financially it is still a big hit. Hayward was not worth the money and all the Browns Defensive Linemen I think was a great addition and we could have used a 3rd round pick to add another body in the mix.

    Lepsis will ask for a lot of money next year we could have traded him for another player or for a good draft pick and restructure a line that is hurting and will now take another blow next year! Walls could come up short and then what? Bailey suppose to do it by himself? There is a big question mark there. And I am not saying this as an anti Plummer spectator but as a Bronco fan, trading Plummer could have been smart, we could have picked up a draft pick and signed a temporary veteran and eased a busted up cap. We could have drafted a quarterback. Droughns being gone is a plus, I like Bell better anyways. In the end I feel Shanahan is trying to force a winning season and doesn't care if he goes down in flames and Bowlen is probably confounded and doesn't know what to do.

    We could have done so much to start rebuilding a team, and personally as a fan, I am truly dissapointed. Shanahan could have traded our 1st this year and next year and we could have come up with a good base to build off of this draft. Maybe Shanahan is taking his bow out by creating a team that will have issues, but you have to question it. We could have signed some young players and had 9 good picks in the draft, we need another receiver, we need to revamp and rebuild our O-Line, we need a descent corner and we could have picked up a bunch in FA if Shanahan would have done some moves. I think Oakland was smart cause they new a change was needed and let go some good starters to do that, Shanahan seems so afraid to loose he may destroy the Broncos and it will be a while till it is fixed again.

    Can we challenge this year maybe but next year I think we will have a loosing season cause of Shanahan not taking chances and cutting some losses. But in the end I wonder if he cares? Denver fans maybe looking at the most dissmal season next year since the year after Elway retired. Right now there are too many guestions and Shanahan is not feeling them he is keeping liability players and high end players playing for more then their worth. We could be seeing the end of the Shanahan era.
    Last edited by Denver-D-Dawg; 04-22-2005, 11:37 AM.
    We Buc, We Bronc And Now We Bite... Go BroncDawgs!

    Defense brings the pain but linbackers bring the terror!!!



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  • #2
    I have to agree and this is scary when you think about it. Denver's offensive line will be depleted heavily. Walls is probably a liability, the amout of free agents we will have and depletion all around is a joke. I never thought about trading Plummer and though he is a good quarterback maybe you are right, we should have grabbed a capable veteran and drafted a quarterback or tried Mauk maybe but we could have added alot with his relief to the cap and Pryce I think still needed to be traded and the Lepsis trade is real smart, someone would have traded a player or pick for him. And though I want to win, I think it would have been best to completely rebuild while we had some base core of good players and now we will have a hard time making a challenging roster. Maybe Shanahan is fed up and just wants Denver to suffer in a way no one thought possible. I hate to think that but in the end his moves etc. seem to be getting worse year by year.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Denver-D-Dawg
      I have been thinking about a lot of issues as the annual Draft is tomorrow and our division is only getting tougher. I still think we have a chance to win the division but I do not think we can win the biggest championship. Shanahan has really made some bad choices in this off season, well in my mind at least. Read more and then I want everyone elses two cents!

      Best moves: Contract restructures, Brown's D-Line additions, Signing Brown, Palepoi, Davis, Pope and signing Dayne. Trading Droughns to Cleveland and trading our 4th round pick for Warren. Letting Hayward go was a plus also.

      Worst moves: Signing Coleman, Ellis and Gold. Keeping Pryce and restructuring his contract, keeping Lepsis and the Washington trade. Re-signing Walls coud be a disaster as well. Keeping Plummer in Denver.

      Now listen before everyone starts throwing eggs. Hahahaha!

      Signing Coleman and Ellis does bring some veterans back but not like they were that big of a boost to our team, we could have signed younger defensive lineman for the platooning, especially the way Denver likes to get those cut by other teams. Gold for the money in my mind is not worth it we could have picked up a great linebacker in the 2nd round of the draft, the linebackers are falling far into the second cause of other teams needs. And Gold's financial hurt us cap wise. Pryce we could have traded for a 3rd round pick at least or maybe even a 2nd round pick. He is possibly going to be a factor if he throws a fit cause Brown and Ekuban are better. I do not think he will move to tackle this season and it will cause major problems and financially it is still a big hit. Hayward was not worth the money and all the Browns Defensive Linemen I think was a great addition and we could have used a 3rd round pick to add another body in the mix.

      Lepsis will ask for a lot of money next year we could have traded him for another player or for a good draft pick and restructure a line that is hurting and will now take another blow next year! Walls could come up short and then what? Bailey suppose to do it by himself? There is a big question mark there. And I am not saying this as an anti Plummer spectator but as a Bronco fan, trading Plummer could have been smart, we could have picked up a draft pick and signed a temporary veteran and eased a busted up cap. We could have drafted a quarterback. Droughns being gone is a plus, I like Bell better anyways. In the end I feel Shanahan is trying to force a winning season and doesn't care if he goes down in flames and Bowlen is probably confounded and doesn't know what to do.

      We could have done so much to start rebuilding a team, and personally as a fan, I am truly dissapointed. Shanahan could have traded our 1st this year and next year and we could have come up with a good base to build off of this draft. Maybe Shanahan is taking his bow out by creating a team that will have issues, but you have to question it. We could have signed some young players and had 9 good picks in the draft, we need another receiver, we need to revamp and rebuild our O-Line, we need a descent corner and we could have picked up a bunch in FA if Shanahan would have done some moves. I think Oakland was smart cause they new a change was needed and let go some good starters to do that, Shanahan seems so afraid to loose he may destroy the Broncos and it will be a while till it is fixed again.

      Can we challenge this year maybe but next year I think we will have a loosing season cause of Shanahan not taking chances and cutting some losses. But in the end I wonder if he cares? Denver fans maybe looking at the most dissmal season next year since the year after Elway retired. Right now there are too many guestions and Shanahan is not feeling them he is keeping liability players and high end players playing for more then their worth. We could be seeing the end of the Shanahan era.
      You seem to think this is the NBA. Trading high prices high profile players is not as easy as you make it sound. Plummer and Lepsis would not have garnered high picks with the salaries they have. Also we would not have saved alot dumping either of them so signing others would not have been so easy. Do we have any expiring contracts you want to offload for a first round pick?

      I know it is easy to get excited about a draft and want the grass is greener player. The reality of it is that a very high portion of the players drafted are busts and many more simply don't live up to expectations. Because of this it is generally not the best idea to trade your proven starters for draft picks. This almost always happens when teams are having performance problems or contract issues with a player. Not a player that is performing and the team is happy with. And when the trade does occur the team giving up the draft pick usually gets good value in a player. Surtain only garnered a second round pick. What do you really think we could have gotten for these guys?

      I couldn't disagree with your analysis more. First we are not that far away. The D situation is a net positive in my book (and this is only so far). We also positioned ourselves to have more draft picks next year when our cap situation is much better. Can you imagine where our team would be this year without Lepsis and Plummer? and no we could not have drafted someone better (certainly not better next year). Rookies take a long time to develop and you would also take away his left tackle. This is a disaster man. You want a young QB with a rookie tackle on one side and another tackle that has moved to a new position. Slow down big fella.

      I want to make a run towards the playoffs again. I don't want the first pick in next years draft because we suck so bad next year. I want to be competitive and make a run at it. I dont believe we are that far off. We have holes and the team is trying to put us in position to fill those with the current cap situation.

      When you are close it is not best to blow up the team and start over. I think it is best to leverage what you have and discard the waste. In my opinion you have chosen the waste a little too liberally.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by myoung
        You seem to think this is the NBA. Trading high prices high profile players is not as easy as you make it sound. Plummer and Lepsis would not have garnered high picks with the salaries they have. Also we would not have saved alot dumping either of them so signing others would not have been so easy. Do we have any expiring contracts you want to offload for a first round pick?

        I know it is easy to get excited about a draft and want the grass is greener player. The reality of it is that a very high portion of the players drafted are busts and many more simply don't live up to expectations. Because of this it is generally not the best idea to trade your proven starters for draft picks. This almost always happens when teams are having performance problems or contract issues with a player. Not a player that is performing and the team is happy with. And when the trade does occur the team giving up the draft pick usually gets good value in a player. Surtain only garnered a second round pick. What do you really think we could have gotten for these guys?

        I couldn't disagree with your analysis more. First we are not that far away. The D situation is a net positive in my book (and this is only so far). We also positioned ourselves to have more draft picks next year when our cap situation is much better. Can you imagine where our team would be this year without Lepsis and Plummer? and no we could not have drafted someone better (certainly not better next year). Rookies take a long time to develop and you would also take away his left tackle. This is a disaster man. You want a young QB with a rookie tackle on one side and another tackle that has moved to a new position. Slow down big fella.

        I want to make a run towards the playoffs again. I don't want the first pick in next years draft because we suck so bad next year. I want to be competitive and make a run at it. I dont believe we are that far off. We have holes and the team is trying to put us in position to fill those with the current cap situation.

        When you are close it is not best to blow up the team and start over. I think it is best to leverage what you have and discard the waste. In my opinion you have chosen the waste a little too liberally.
        Don't get me wrong myoung I just feel that we had a small area to be extreme and build off of, I never said we would have gotten high picks for any of those players, but the cap is killing the team. You have to admit that, and our division is beefing up and soon we may not be able to cpmpete cause we can not match up. Our O-Line will take a large hit with Carlisle on it and Lepsis leaving. We have hardly any depth, our D-Line are mostly running on one year contracts and a lot of questions are there as is the same for the weakside corner. We have a good linebacker corps but Gold I think is not worth what we are paying him, we could have cut into a better market with some extreme moves to make a solid base to keep adding on to. But when we are hit with lack of quality and by the cap and we go 6-10 I think all fans will be looking at it differently. I want to win but when your team gets to the point you have to take so many average players cause of the cap to have depth, then you have already lost. I think you would agree with that as well? Maybe a good extreme restructure is what Denver needs, before it is forced! I hate saying this, I love the Broncs' I just do not see how we will not go down in flames on the road were on, in the end this is why Shanahan gets so much guff we do not build we buy bring in and still are better for a short period, how long can we keep doing it, till it requires a total restructure. Look at what happened when we lost so many after Elway retired. we did not start drafting and building we bought and added, and we keep loosing and just buying. Out of a roster consisting of 80 some odd players only 26 are drafted and out of them only 7 to 9 are actual starters or considered to make an impact? If you look at it with questionable eyes I think you will see we have to pick it up or we are in trouble.
        We Buc, We Bronc And Now We Bite... Go BroncDawgs!

        Defense brings the pain but linbackers bring the terror!!!



        Sig By SNK16

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Denver-D-Dawg
          Don't get me wrong myoung I just feel that we had a small area to be extreme and build off of, I never said we would have gotten high picks for any of those players, but the cap is killing the team. You have to admit that, and our division is beefing up and soon we may not be able to cpmpete cause we can not match up. Our O-Line will take a large hit with Carlisle on it and Lepsis leaving. We have hardly any depth, our D-Line are mostly running on one year contracts and a lot of questions are there as is the same for the weakside corner. We have a good linebacker corps but Gold I think is not worth what we are paying him, we could have cut into a better market with some extreme moves to make a solid base to keep adding on to. But when we are hit with lack of quality and by the cap and we go 6-10 I think all fans will be looking at it differently. I want to win but when your team gets to the point you have to take so many average players cause of the cap to have depth, then you have already lost. I think you would agree with that as well? Maybe a good extreme restructure is what Denver needs, before it is forced! I hate saying this, I love the Broncs' I just do not see how we will not go down in flames on the road were on, in the end this is why Shanahan gets so much guff we do not build we buy bring in and still are better for a short period, how long can we keep doing it, till it requires a total restructure. Look at what happened when we lost so many after Elway retired. we did not start drafting and building we bought and added, and we keep loosing and just buying. Out of a roster consisting of 80 some odd players only 26 are drafted and out of them only 7 to 9 are actual starters or considered to make an impact? If you look at it with questionable eyes I think you will see we have to pick it up or we are in trouble.
          I believe this is a very pessimistic view of the situation. I agree with some of your concerns on the OL. It will be an issue next year and I have been an advocate of starting to address it this year in the draft and addressing it with one of the big tackles next year. There will be at least three in the first round next year that should be plug in starters. Especially on the right side. I do not think we will go 6-10. I believe we will be in a very similar situation next year that we were in this year. I don't see how the chiefs are much better. The Raiders have made a bunch of moves but those could be good and some could blow up. I am still not convinced they are a very good team. I think we are a little better than you think we are.

          Jakes contract on the whole is not bad, in fact is very favorable for a guy that put up those numbers last year. Lepsis also is not out of whack for a good tackle. Most our cap problems have come from dead money. The only way we could make some of the moves you talk about is to wait until June 1st so that we can spread the hit this year and next year. Then we could do this but we would add more dead money on the books for next year. This is crazy. We can't trade playes without accelarating their bonus money. We can't release them without accelarating their bonus money. Cutting Lepsis and Jake would not help and the accelerated dollars would offset what you would get and we would be down two players. I just don't think this makes any sense at all. We are better off making moves to stay very competitive next year and when money comes off the cap and we have salaries that are easy to cut (Lepsis) next year we will have alot more money to either sign the players that had one years and tore it up or hit the FA market. I think this is a good thing.

          On the DL we are in a much better situation than we were last year and I think we have several players that have an opportunity to prove themselves. We should start picking up some young talent. I have been trying to say this for years now but the team typically doesn't draft this way early.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hard to Commit

            Whew! It's hard to say one way or another what's right or not. There are some things I agree with, and I'd have to take a closer look at the full short-term and long-term cap implications of some of the offseason moves to say whether or not they're right or wrong.

            A couple of things I disagree with though: The Washington trade was not a bad move, in my opinion. You could argue that we could find value at 25, but not any kind of impact player that could make a monumental difference this year. Stockpiling picks, especially in next year's draft is a good thing. The recent success of New England and Philly have been a result of their masterful use of the draft. They move down some to get extra picks in future drafts, then use those extra picks to move up to get their choice of players. The Pats have done this the last two years. Philly did it last year, and they're certain to do it this year with 13 picks. Denver will be close to being in that boat next season.

            Second, dropping Lepsis and Plummer would be a bad idea. You simply don't want to concede your season, especially coming off a playoff year. That's bad for the fans, bad for the players, etc. You just don't know how rookies will pan out. I agree that looking for 1-year free agent wonders is not a formula for success, and it really hasn't been great for Denver, but throwing a rookie QB and an unproven tackle into the fire in Denver's division would be suicide. It takes a while for a QB to develop in Denver's offense. Even Elway had to take time to make the transition. This is Plummer's third year, and he should have the offense down. Also, with Tatum Bell ready to explode onto the scene, you want to give your team a stable presence at QB because the offense has a chance to be great (top 5 last year does not warrant a removal of your starting QB even with 20 INTs).

            The D is going to be a question mark, but there's potential. Signing Walls, in my opinion was a must after losing Herndon. Denver won't get immediate help in the draft unless they got Rolle or Jones, and what they really need is depth anyway. A season is long, and you really need 5 serviceable corners on your depth chart (unless you can work defensive magic like the Pats, in which case you can just put a corpse there and he can defend). Denver got killed in the playoffs last year because they didn't have the corner depth to hang with the Colts. Without an immediate replacement for Walls, Denver would be hamstringing itself at that position (not a good thing to do when the Raiders just signed Moss, and the Chiefs and Chargers are poised to add first round receivers).

            Overall, I definitely can't defend all of the moves the Broncos' front office has made over the past couple of seasons. Continually taking chances on guys with mediocre track records is coming back to bite them annually. I'd much rather see Denver rebuild through the draft, and maybe they're starting to do that in 2006.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TJforHOF
              Whew! It's hard to say one way or another what's right or not. There are some things I agree with, and I'd have to take a closer look at the full short-term and long-term cap implications of some of the offseason moves to say whether or not they're right or wrong.

              A couple of things I disagree with though: The Washington trade was not a bad move, in my opinion. You could argue that we could find value at 25, but not any kind of impact player that could make a monumental difference this year. Stockpiling picks, especially in next year's draft is a good thing. The recent success of New England and Philly have been a result of their masterful use of the draft. They move down some to get extra picks in future drafts, then use those extra picks to move up to get their choice of players. The Pats have done this the last two years. Philly did it last year, and they're certain to do it this year with 13 picks. Denver will be close to being in that boat next season.

              Second, dropping Lepsis and Plummer would be a bad idea. You simply don't want to concede your season, especially coming off a playoff year. That's bad for the fans, bad for the players, etc. You just don't know how rookies will pan out. I agree that looking for 1-year free agent wonders is not a formula for success, and it really hasn't been great for Denver, but throwing a rookie QB and an unproven tackle into the fire in Denver's division would be suicide. It takes a while for a QB to develop in Denver's offense. Even Elway had to take time to make the transition. This is Plummer's third year, and he should have the offense down. Also, with Tatum Bell ready to explode onto the scene, you want to give your team a stable presence at QB because the offense has a chance to be great (top 5 last year does not warrant a removal of your starting QB even with 20 INTs).

              The D is going to be a question mark, but there's potential. Signing Walls, in my opinion was a must after losing Herndon. Denver won't get immediate help in the draft unless they got Rolle or Jones, and what they really need is depth anyway. A season is long, and you really need 5 serviceable corners on your depth chart (unless you can work defensive magic like the Pats, in which case you can just put a corpse there and he can defend). Denver got killed in the playoffs last year because they didn't have the corner depth to hang with the Colts. Without an immediate replacement for Walls, Denver would be hamstringing itself at that position (not a good thing to do when the Raiders just signed Moss, and the Chiefs and Chargers are poised to add first round receivers).

              Overall, I definitely can't defend all of the moves the Broncos' front office has made over the past couple of seasons. Continually taking chances on guys with mediocre track records is coming back to bite them annually. I'd much rather see Denver rebuild through the draft, and maybe they're starting to do that in 2006.
              I would love to see it but I doubt it will happen. Denver has too many needs now to contend and when you cannot contend you need to structure to build, I guess I get this from being an ex-coach in the College ranks, But if we knew there were issues we wanted to fix them so we were steady for years to come. We can take a lousy season for three great contention years. With Denver they are too busy trying to contend I keep seeing bad moves, I like the Wash trade except for we have needs, I do not care what people think of my open opinion only of the ideal.
              Look at it from this breakdown - Walls is too questionable we do not have the depth if he goes down to compete. And Walls was a temporary fix for one year, we could have made a move to sign a young corner for a longer term in FA, now were screwed if he goes down. Our linebackers are good but the depth has suffered and we signed Gold for more then his worth. Our D-Line has older veterans and youth mixed but we have small short contracts, we could loose our whole damn D-Line easily after this season, if we have two breakout and they want more Shannahan will let them go, like he always does! O-Line, Well Carlisle is a joke, Hamilton is okay will be a good center. Lepsis will be gone and Foster is solid, well if you cannot block you cannot protect a qb nor run the ball! You cannot expect your runner to be healthy with no line and our receiving corps is missing a good third wide and steady four wide, TE is good but we nned a good possession receiver. I just see too many holes that are going to come around full throttle and bite us in the butkus! Then what, Denver will have a small core of good players and we will be too busy buying leftovers again to make a good season and then we could end up having to restructure more then before. I see this for what it is, something that could be highly dangerous...
              We Buc, We Bronc And Now We Bite... Go BroncDawgs!

              Defense brings the pain but linbackers bring the terror!!!



              Sig By SNK16

              Comment


              • #8
                Best: Signing FA Ian Gold. This makes our already speedy Linebacker corp even quicker, plus Gold will be a precence on Special Teams.

                Acquiring Washington's 1st round pick and fourth pick next year and the 3rd round pick this year for our 25th overall in 2005. In a draft that isn't really up to billing this is a great move. Next years draft will be loaded with more talent in my opinion, and having two first round picks next year will give us a great opportunity to A. give us a chance to fill some holes real early B. could give us a great opportunity to move up in the first round.


                Bad: Trading Rueben Droughns to Cleveland for Ebenezor Ekuban (sp?) and Mike Myers. Droughns proved to us that he was a capable starter at Halfback. and Although I like Tatum Bell, it would be nice to have Droughns around for Third down situations. Dayne just doesn't do anything for me.

                Thats just my opinion though

                Comment


                • #9
                  To D-Dawg

                  I agree with you about re-signing Gold, especially given the way Gold left last year.

                  I don't know if there are any immediate fixes on the O-line in this draft. Next year looks to be significantly deeper at offensive line, and it's encouraging that Denver appears to be armed with a lot of picks then. Current depth is a problem, though, I wholeheartedly agree.

                  I also agree that I would gladly trade one 5-11 season if it meant seeing Denver go 12-4 or better for three straight years after that, but I'm sure the organization doesn't look at it that way. They definitely see the team as having playoff potential again, and needing only a few pieces to fall into place for it to happen. The problem is, you just can't guarantee that 1) you can get the players you want in a draft even with a host of picks, and 2) that the guys you pick will even help you down the road (see Paul Toviessi and other high round picks recently that haven't developed).

                  There has to be a mix of signing free agents and building via the draft. I think Denver is on the right track with that (as opposed to the past). Yes, the new D-linemen are on short contracts, but they are gambling on them breaking out in Denver. If they do, and they want big money elsewhere, fine. If Denver has to let them go, they will get compensation (via draft picks) just like they're getting this year. Having compensatory picks means that your team is giving up more in free agency than it is bringing in. So while Denver is looking to FAs some to fill holes, it's also letting some pricey players go elsewhere.

                  I believe Denver's philosophy has not been to try and lure a big FA offensive lineman, or to overpay for them. They have only recently begun drafting them higher because they've always had success with undersized, undervalued linemen in Alex Gibbs' system. Perhaps the next two years will be about building a line for the future. Maybe nab one or two solid prospects this year, and load up with a first rounder, and maybe a second rounder next year (similar to what the Raiders did last season). With Foster anchoring the line and Hamilton still at a decent age, that could be a very solid foundation for 2006 and beyond.

                  Plus, if you don't like the line and QB situation this year, what sense does it make to draft a promising rookie and put him behind a shaky line right away? If you don't like Plummer, then you should be glad to see him get hammered this year. Then, after a better line is formed, Denver can bring in another QB.

                  And, it's an overstatement to say that Denver can't block anyone. They can. Despite having a converted fullback as the feature RB most of last year, Denver was again one of the top rushing teams in the league, and one of the top 5 offenses overall. I'd say that was an impressive feat for the team given the losses of Sharpe, Portis, and McCaffrey, wouldn't you?

                  I think Denver is a lot closer to being a very good team than to being a very bad one. Gutting them now just doesn't make sense with so much help appearing on the horizon next year.
                  Last edited by TJforHOF; 04-22-2005, 01:55 PM. Reason: content

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    good- the gamble on the new d-line and the trade with Washington


                    bad- letting kennedy go but i understand y they did it
                    BRONCOS fan is in my blood!
                    IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v368/vannote/cutlersig.jpg[/IMG]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      your view is extremely pessimistic, but then maybe im a bit of an optimist

                      goods - most of the offseason, i believe the front office really went after players to improve the team as a whole and let guys go they did not want to overpay for, we resigned important guys

                      bads - keeping pryce (i hope im proved wrong, but such a serious injury, the jury is still out), signing gold for such a price

                      looking at the moves in detail

                      the washington trade was a win win situation for me, the draft isnt that great this year and the talent level drops off quite a bit by the end of the 1st and the trade was basically 3 picks for 1, cant go wrong with that

                      the brown d-line, signing these guys give us better upsides than our incumbent starters but still they need to play, potential counts for nothing in this league, its performances on the field that counts

                      resigning guys, i liked all of our resignings apart from luther ellis, hes talented but at his age and his perrenial appearance on IR, it does beg the question why he was resigned but i do actually like the resigning of marco coleman, hes stout against the run, holds his own on the line, hes lost a step in the pass rush but he'll be valuable to us on obvious running downs in the rotation

                      but the renegotiation for pryce, hes a bronco alright and i commend him for doing what he did but is he really 100% since the op? and still the renegotiated salary is still too large in my opinion

                      signing gold, i liked the move because in 2003, he was all over the field making plays but after a mediocre season at tampa, i believe we definitely overpayed to get our man, hes a worthy addition but just too expensive

                      as for guys like plummer and lepsis we basically have no option, plummer is not really a hot commodity, no one would give up much for him because of his age and there were guys on the FA market who could have been serviceable starters for a cheaper price, and getting rid of him could incur a cap hit and for lepsis, i dont see why no one appreicates him because he was part of the unit that gave up very few sacks last year (also credit to plummer for avoiding the rush with his feet) but he subdued a lot of talented pass rushers (dwight freeney for eg) and if we did trade him, we would be in real trouble on our OL because we have very little depth there and there is absolutely no one who can step in behind lepsis and play up to an appropriate standard, the only issue with lepsis is that he could leave next year - especially if we dont have much cap room to work with but there are a bunch of great LT's avail in next year's draft and if the #1 we get from WAS is pretty high, we can make a run for a franchise LT
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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dbdom
                        lepsis, i dont see why no one appreicates him because he was part of the unit that gave up very few sacks last year (also credit to plummer for avoiding the rush with his feet) but he subdued a lot of talented pass rushers (dwight freeney for eg) and if we did trade him, we would be in real trouble on our OL because we have very little depth there and there is absolutely no one who can step in behind lepsis and play up to an appropriate standard, the only issue with lepsis is that he could leave next year - especially if we dont have much cap room to work with but there are a bunch of great LT's avail in next year's draft and if the #1 we get from WAS is pretty high, we can make a run for a franchise LT
                        Okay I disagree with this completely I think Foster is a lot better then Lepsis and could move to left tackle easily. But we have a weak guard in Carlisle, this guy is a dupe and we have two guards that are young that can compete but I think he is a complete waste of even league minimum! We need a good guard, I think we can take Munoz in the 3rd who comes from a pro style blocking system and he could take right side tackle very quick, there are guards that we can draft, but with using two picks to fix the line we loose out, that is why a trade for Lepsis would be great and then we avoid a Lepsis headache next off-season. Lepsis is easily worth a 2nd and 4th round pick or two 3rd rounders, we could have done a lot to fix the O-Line and get other needs! And Pryce needs to be traded even if for a 4th round pick, yeah he is a bronco but he can become a liability and we need the cap space leading up to what could be a huge draft year next season! I love the Browns line I just hope we are smart enough when they break out and have a good year we sign them longer then another year like Shanahan is good at! We need more weapons for Plummer, with picks from Lepsis that helps the line and with a pick from Pryce, we could add a receiver or two one able to KR as well a cornerback for depth a punter, this would be better then the spots we have now at least we brought in a lot of bodies and opened some cap space.
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                        • #13
                          *throws an egg at D-Dawg*

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by DarKliger
                            *throws an egg at D-Dawg*
                            Grow up DK, if all you can do is be an immature punk then go back to talking to the mentally challenged!

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                            • #15
                              There is so much fundamentally wrong with what you're saying d-dawg.

                              I started 4 different times trying to cover all the points where you're essentially dreaming, but there's just too much wrong, I don't have enough time to sit here and pick it apart.

                              For instance however, saying things like "Lepsis is easily worth a 2nd and 4th round pick or two 3rd rounders" doesn't make it true. Just ask Dan Neil how much people want our old offensive lineman.

                              Completely dismantling a playoff team so that we can have a ton of rookies and a 5 year streak of sub .500 team doesn't make me look forward to being a fan.

                              On top of all that....you think signing Dayne is a good idea, yet the Washington trade wasn't? Dude, whatever you're smoking, pass it this way.


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