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  • #16
    Originally posted by twotone
    There is so much fundamentally wrong with what you're saying d-dawg.

    I started 4 different times trying to cover all the points where you're essentially dreaming, but there's just too much wrong, I don't have enough time to sit here and pick it apart.

    For instance however, saying things like "Lepsis is easily worth a 2nd and 4th round pick or two 3rd rounders" doesn't make it true. Just ask Dan Neil how much people want our old offensive lineman.

    Completely dismantling a playoff team so that we can have a ton of rookies and a 5 year streak of sub .500 team doesn't make me look forward to being a fan.

    On top of all that....you think signing Dayne is a good idea, yet the Washington trade wasn't? Dude, whatever you're smoking, pass it this way.
    First of all Lepsis is veteran enough to be a big want and you'll find out next year when we cannot afford him compared to offers he gets! Anyone can tell you Lepsis is in Demand, Detroit, Houston San Diego a lot of teams need a solid tackle, we will loose him without compensation unless we restrict him but we will not be able to match an offer. Neil is injury proned and more seaoned then Lepsis that is why he is not in demand plus he is still hurt who wants an injured unhealed veteran? I think Dayne can become a 3rd down back easily and I like the Washington trade except for we needed more picks this year, I wish Denver would have nailed a 1st round next year or a 2nd next year, a 2nd this year and a 3rd in both. We have several needs that need covered. And by the way sometimes a team needs a facelift and a chance to rebuild, or in the end you can be a lot worse. But of course we never learned anything from N.E. who keeps going after a great face lift around a coach and a core of players. So pick it apart I doubt you can, sincerely we are going to have massive losses cause how we sign players next season, watch. One year contracts are not good only ways to loose good players but I guess the fact for the past few years we keep loosing our starters, we are so good! We can loose almost half of our off season aquisitions and the end of the season, how are we suppose to compete without making needed changes and letting our best go away! So we could end up needed to make so many moves it will be the league joke, yeah your a fan, a fan of self destruction instead of structure and winning.
    We Buc, We Bronc And Now We Bite... Go BroncDawgs!

    Defense brings the pain but linbackers bring the terror!!!



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    • #17
      lol Ian, he said to wait before i throw eggs so i did.He didnt say not to throw eggs.

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      • #18
        bust a move

        Best move- horse trot dance in end zone
        Worst move- left handed pass attempt

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        • #19
          All right D-Dawg, I re-read your posts and decided I was being a bit harsh earlier and I apologize about that. Apparently I was in a bad mood and felt like being a prick about things. No hard feelings.

          That isn't to say however, that I don't still disagree with you. Here's why.

          Lepsis is a good tackle, yes, but I don't see how it helps our "cap hell" or whatever you're calling it to get rid of him, take a cap hit this year, then use a draft pick to replace him or Foster. You're simply making the team worse by doing that. Draft a guy and let him sit on the bench or practice squad for a year and then if Lepsis does end up being more expensive, too bad, he's gone, but no cap hit. Besides that, look around at the league and you'll see that it's getting tougher and tougher to seperate teams from multiple draft picks straight up for a guy, especially when the guy has a contract like Lepsis' or Plummer's.

          Same thing with Plummer. Who do you propose we bring in? There aren't many options of guys that would actually do as well or better than him. Besides, if we let go of Jake we decline the option and he's gone. We don't get to trade him for picks.

          As for the remaining line. I think you are forgetting that we re-signed Hamilton for probably a lot less than he could have gotten. How come that isn't listed in your good moves?

          As far as Walls and Carlisle, I think they're simply better than you're giving them credit for. You might have questions about them, but some of us, apparently Shanny included, think that these guys will be good for the team. Just a difference of opinion I suppose.

          And it's on the opposite with Dayne. He showed us in NY that he's not a good short-yardage or 3rd down back. The only way this guy would be effective is if he gets 15-20 carries a game, which he's not gonna get unless there's a bunch of injuries. If we try and use him as a situational back, we're in trouble. Don't forget we also still have Anderson, who's better than Dayne. I don't even think Dayne will make it past training camp.

          The d-line. I agree, one year contracts and so forth are bad. We're not going to have all those guys around in '06 and we all know that. But with Brown, Ekuban, Davis, and Ellis, they're all injured so damn much we might not even want them back, or can get them again cheap because they won't garner much in FA. I don't necessarily think these guys were our best options on the d-line, but I think it's an upgrade at our biggest weakness. Also, the draft is tomorrow, so we'll see how many d-line guys we get, cause I'm betting we get at least 2. Pryce is a good d-lineman if his back is healthy. If it's not, then I guess we're screwed, but there's really no way if we can tell whether or not this was a good move until the season starts. However something tells me that the Pryce story isn't done, anyways.....

          And as far as the Washington trade, seriously. There's no possible way you can say that this was a bad deal. This is perhaps one of the best deals in recent years by the Broncos, depending on what we do with that pick next year. We essentially traded a "decent" pick for a better pick, and then got two more to ice the cake. Sure, the Redskins could win the SB, but c'mon, odds are their pick will be much higher than 25 next year and we all know it.

          I do pretty much agree with you on Gold though. I think he was too expensive and the money could've been better spent elsewhere. Although, when you put him, Al Wilson and D.J. Williams together? That's quite possibly one of the top 3 if not the best LB crews in the league.

          As far as everything else, I think you're being entirely too pessmistic, like myoung was saying. Personally, I think this team is one or two steps away from being a Super Bowl team. One of those things was addressed in off-season in being the defensive line, which is improved. Also, Shanny did somewhat what you wanted him to do, and loaded up on some mid round picks, which will also put us in a better situation next year. I think you should at least wait until after the draft, which isn't too long now (I'm excited) to be so pessimistic.

          I will not be surprised if we go very deep in the playoffs this year, and I dont' say that with blind optimism, I say that because this team has the talent to do so. I guess we'll both see.


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          WINNER of Elevation INC's Pick Your 53 Challenge....Sig to come!

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          • #20
            And furthermore.........

            I agree with the last post and wanted to add something, the guys playing on the d-line are going to be very motivated this year to play at a high level knowing that the size of their next contract will depend on how well they play this year.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by twotone
              All right D-Dawg, I re-read your posts and decided I was being a bit harsh earlier and I apologize about that. Apparently I was in a bad mood and felt like being a prick about things. No hard feelings.

              That isn't to say however, that I don't still disagree with you. Here's why.

              Lepsis is a good tackle, yes, but I don't see how it helps our "cap hell" or whatever you're calling it to get rid of him, take a cap hit this year, then use a draft pick to replace him or Foster. You're simply making the team worse by doing that. Draft a guy and let him sit on the bench or practice squad for a year and then if Lepsis does end up being more expensive, too bad, he's gone, but no cap hit. Besides that, look around at the league and you'll see that it's getting tougher and tougher to seperate teams from multiple draft picks straight up for a guy, especially when the guy has a contract like Lepsis' or Plummer's.

              Same thing with Plummer. Who do you propose we bring in? There aren't many options of guys that would actually do as well or better than him. Besides, if we let go of Jake we decline the option and he's gone. We don't get to trade him for picks.

              As for the remaining line. I think you are forgetting that we re-signed Hamilton for probably a lot less than he could have gotten. How come that isn't listed in your good moves?

              As far as Walls and Carlisle, I think they're simply better than you're giving them credit for. You might have questions about them, but some of us, apparently Shanny included, think that these guys will be good for the team. Just a difference of opinion I suppose.

              And it's on the opposite with Dayne. He showed us in NY that he's not a good short-yardage or 3rd down back. The only way this guy would be effective is if he gets 15-20 carries a game, which he's not gonna get unless there's a bunch of injuries. If we try and use him as a situational back, we're in trouble. Don't forget we also still have Anderson, who's better than Dayne. I don't even think Dayne will make it past training camp.

              The d-line. I agree, one year contracts and so forth are bad. We're not going to have all those guys around in '06 and we all know that. But with Brown, Ekuban, Davis, and Ellis, they're all injured so damn much we might not even want them back, or can get them again cheap because they won't garner much in FA. I don't necessarily think these guys were our best options on the d-line, but I think it's an upgrade at our biggest weakness. Also, the draft is tomorrow, so we'll see how many d-line guys we get, cause I'm betting we get at least 2. Pryce is a good d-lineman if his back is healthy. If it's not, then I guess we're screwed, but there's really no way if we can tell whether or not this was a good move until the season starts. However something tells me that the Pryce story isn't done, anyways.....

              And as far as the Washington trade, seriously. There's no possible way you can say that this was a bad deal. This is perhaps one of the best deals in recent years by the Broncos, depending on what we do with that pick next year. We essentially traded a "decent" pick for a better pick, and then got two more to ice the cake. Sure, the Redskins could win the SB, but c'mon, odds are their pick will be much higher than 25 next year and we all know it.

              I do pretty much agree with you on Gold though. I think he was too expensive and the money could've been better spent elsewhere. Although, when you put him, Al Wilson and D.J. Williams together? That's quite possibly one of the top 3 if not the best LB crews in the league.

              As far as everything else, I think you're being entirely too pessmistic, like myoung was saying. Personally, I think this team is one or two steps away from being a Super Bowl team. One of those things was addressed in off-season in being the defensive line, which is improved. Also, Shanny did somewhat what you wanted him to do, and loaded up on some mid round picks, which will also put us in a better situation next year. I think you should at least wait until after the draft, which isn't too long now (I'm excited) to be so pessimistic.

              I will not be surprised if we go very deep in the playoffs this year, and I dont' say that with blind optimism, I say that because this team has the talent to do so. I guess we'll both see.
              No worries we all have those days...Hahahaha! But thanks for your two cents, I do appreciate it. I like Lepsis, he has great feet, I wish we had another good tackle cause Lepsis being an ex-tight end could be a pro bowl guard. And Foster I think is the future leader of Denver's line, Hamilton will be a good center when Nalen goes and I could see Hamilton being Denver's center for a long time, but he could stay at guard if Sewell steps up and I think that would be good also. Weak points - Lepsis will be too expensive to keep a trade would have not cost against Denver with Lepsis, and we could have gotten something out of the trade, if we restrict him as a free agent next year, we might get something? But we haven't been good about tagging our RFA, you have to admit, I mean Lenny Walls had the top RFA tag and Hayward had no tag, but we could have gotten atleast a 3rd rounder out of him, you get what I am saying? I agree Plummer in a trade could end up costing more, so you made sense with that and now I agree.

              Defensively I think the new additions will be monstrous I like them, I will hope Brown, Ekuban, Warren and Myers get longer contracts to solidify our D-Line for years to come where we can draft into the rotation. The single season and two season contracts and use our franchise and RFA tags better. I think this is one of Shanahan's biggest issues. I like the Washington trade besides the fact of we have a need for more picks now, overall was excellent. We can end up with a good situation next draft. But we will see how it works I agree with that! I like Ian Gold but he is not worth what we spent and it is killing us to have him when we could have found a great linebacker in the draft for less. I do not like keeping Pryce and that I would say openly, I think when Ekuban shows he is better and Coyer asks Pryce to move to tackle, Pryce will go whine about this and cause issues. we could have gotten a mid round pick for him, and the cap would have gotten more space maybe enough to even pickup a last minute need, in free agency.

              Walls I love Lenny his upside and ability, I question his health issues, that is partly why he was not drafted. I think Walls could be a great safety, with Lynch and Ferguson safety lready looks solid, so I would use Walls as a nickleback till Lynch retired and then have Ferguson take over Lynch's spot and Walls take the other spot. But seriously I see no one behind Walls that can step it up if he goes down, LeSuer is still too raw in my book, he is talented but real raw. So I am concerned with our corner situation, I think many of us are. I hope Denver can get Bartell Jr., Browner or Ruut in the 3rd round. I think Bell will be great so I think our running back stable is good. And you could be right about Dayne, I could see Denver going into alot of two back sets to try and use him more with Bell. But we'll have to wait and see. Plummer has made mistakes, I think he could be a pro bowl quarterback but he needs more receiving weapons, period. Watts could step it up or he may fall short, and that is a good possiblity. We need receivers, defensive backs and offensive line help. In my mind there is our week areas.

              We need another receiver or two in the mix, I hope we get Jackson and Bradley, or Jackson and Amos, one whom can return kicks would be a plus. We need to add a descent DB to supply depth and to grow into our system. Our weak link is Lepsis price tag this upcoming season and Carlisle's spot. If I had to I would draft Munoz, so he can grow into the tackle spot behind Foster to take right tackle next season and Foster can take Lepsis's spot. A guard would be good to challenge Carlisle next season. But we will have to wait and see. But my biggest issue is the crap contracts we keep giving these kids, and you agreed with me about that. We are loosing everytime we get better. Yet we have Pryce remaining whom has been declining in production as we watch Hayward, Berry and others leave. I have to say Denver could challenge but there are a lot of issues, but we cannot challenge if every off season we loose starters across the boards and fill their spots with questionable players.
              We Buc, We Bronc And Now We Bite... Go BroncDawgs!

              Defense brings the pain but linbackers bring the terror!!!



              Sig By SNK16

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              • #22
                just my two cents but i think shanahan wanted to a upgrade our pass defense and our special temas which is why you see so many corner backs..williams is only five 8 yeah but look at dante hal..

                intially i was shocked i cam home and was like WTF.. but we knew going in this was not gonna be our draft year! but next year with a POSSIBLE top ten and anoter late first round pick we wont hear the crying next year.............or will we
                The fool who fancies he is full of wisdom
                While he sits by his hearth at home.
                Quickly finds when questioned by others .
                That he knows nothing at all.

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