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Kiper-All Four Bronco Draft Picks Considered Reaches!

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  • #16
    -- Mel is miffed because half of his best bet top picks didn't go until late --- az

    May God Bless all men and women of our Armed Forces, past and present
    The Only Thing Necessary For The Triumph Of Evil Is For Good Men To Do Nothing
    http://www.navyjack.info/history.html
    My Adopted Bronco is #95 Derek Wolfe

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    • #17
      I agree with the reach Mikey has done it for years, Middlebroke, oneal, to name a few not mentioning this years group of WHO?

      Time will tell but After looking at how many Mikey drafted starters we had last year 7 of 22 something tells me it will be less this year.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Jrhampton
        I agree with the reach Mikey has done it for years, Middlebroke, oneal, to name a few not mentioning this years group of WHO?

        Time will tell but After looking at how many Mikey drafted starters we had last year 7 of 22 something tells me it will be less this year.
        JR, you are one of the coolest guys on the boards, and it is a pleasure to have you here.

        But you sure to seem to take after Shanny. Now, I already know you consider him a good on-field coach, just a bad evaluator of draft talent. And I have seen your charts, and figures don't lie. However, I am, up front, generally, and superficially, pleased with this year's draft, even though true experts will tell you that it takes usually about three years to know for sure on a given draft.

        Several people thought we should have gone for Vincent Jackson out of my alma mater. Up until the draft, I thought so, too. In fact, upon firing up my 'puter and going to the proper new source, my reaction to the draft was NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!. But I had forgotten all about Nate Jackson, Triandos Luke, B.J. Johnson, et al. In fact, I believe that, before his injury, Nate Jackson was on his way to being possibly better than V. Jackson might have been--at least maybe as good?

        As it turned out, Shanny had it right: Our absolute number one need was in special teams. Is it sacrilege to compare Clarrent Williams to Dante Hall? What if a year from now we can say no? Kick returner is not a reach; it is a risk--always a risk. But, boy, did our special teams stink--you know that. That is why I thought it was a splendid move not only to draft Williams but to re-sign Burns and draft Ernster. And, at the least, with Browner, Paymah, and Foxworth on special teams, it is going to be very difficult to outrun us.

        Would you be willing to give Shanny a "here, here" if these last two drafts do turn out well? You are a team man, so I know you will. We'll see, right?
        Last edited by topscribe; 05-01-2005, 11:09 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by rcsodak
          Please, somebody tell me what a reach really is!
          If a coach has 6 players on their board, and they are available, then who the hell cares WHEN they were taken, if for no other reason than what they will get paid.

          I could care less, myself, whether bighair says a player was a 'reach' or not!
          Has he ever been an NFL GM? Coach?

          If an organization has the ability to get the players they want, then bully for them.
          I guarantee they know a hell of a lot more about the players, than what the mock drafters have to say about them to fans.....

          (.02)
          Sigh! It's almost hopeless trying to explain this to the challenged, but I'll try once again!

          Why does it matter where a player is drafted, so long as he IS drafted?

          Because you give up the opportunity to draft OTHER players! That's why! People focus on the player selected and if he turns out to be good say, "people said that was a reach but he turned out to be a good pick."

          2 things wrong with that. Sometimes you reach and hit, just like sometimes a baseball player will connect by swinging for the fence and hit a HR.

          But a guy who swings from the heels at every pitch will strike out a lot! A GM who reaches on every pick will pick a lot of duds.

          Worse, even if the pick pans out, there were other players who could have been picked IN ADDITION to the one selected.

          I've used this example before. Darius Watts was the #2 pick for the Broncos in 2004. He wasn't rated that highly by the other 31 teams.

          Randy Starks unexpectedly fell to the 3rd round. He played well in 2004 showing that he was a steal at that place. Denver was expected by a number of experts to take him either in the 1st or if he fell, the 2nd round.

          Shanahan passed.

          He could have taken Starks in the 2nd round, then come back to select Watts in the 3rd. Watts would most probably have still been available since no other team had him rated as high as Shanahan, because Watts played for a Division IA school in Marshall, so he faced inferior competition.

          By REACHING, Shanahan passed up the opportunity to get 2 good players instead of one. Instead he got Watts and Jeremy LeSueur, both reaches. LeSueur is now being moved to free safety where he probably won't start this season. Starks is a starter and had good rookie season with 4.5 sacks for the Titans.

          Which draft would you rather have?

          1. D.J. Williams
          2. Randy Starks
          3. Darius Watts

          or

          1. D.J. Williams
          2. Watts
          3. Jeremy LeSueur
          sigpic

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          • #20
            Any of you can say that he is reaching but you have to remember, we didnt have any 4th or 5th round picks. So he wanted the third rounders and he wouldve taken them later if he couldve but he wouldnt of had the chance!!! And also, he knows more than any of you. He's been at the combines, interviewed them, watched their tapes. He might make some bad picks but All coaches make bad picks. It was a decent draft.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Tatum_26
              Any of you can say that he is reaching but you have to remember, we didnt have any 4th or 5th round picks. So he wanted the third rounders and he wouldve taken them later if he couldve but he wouldnt of had the chance!!! And also, he knows more than any of you. He's been at the combines, interviewed them, watched their tapes. He might make some bad picks but All coaches make bad picks. It was a decent draft.
              Would you like some more Kool Aid?
              Does it bother you that a Bronco fan might like a NON Bronco? Deal with it!

              Making fun of career threatening accidents because you dont agree with me is fun, right? Losers...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Tatum_26
                Any of you can say that he is reaching but you have to remember, we didnt have any 4th or 5th round picks. So he wanted the third rounders and he wouldve taken them later if he couldve but he wouldnt of had the chance!!! And also, he knows more than any of you. He's been at the combines, interviewed them, watched their tapes. He might make some bad picks but All coaches make bad picks. It was a decent draft.
                Good post, despite the Kool-Aid offer.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by topscribe
                  JR, you are one of the coolest guys on the boards, and it is a pleasure to have you hear.

                  But you sure to seem to take after Shanny. Now, I already know you consider him a good on-field coach, just a bad evaluator of draft talent. And I have seen your charts, and figures don't lie. However, I am, up front, generally, and superficially, pleased with this year's draft, even though true experts will tell you that it takes usually about three years to know for sure on a given draft.

                  Several people thought we should have gone for Vincent Jackson out of my alma mater. Up until the draft, I thought so, too. In fact, upon firing up my 'puter and going to the proper new source, my reaction to the draft was NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!. But I had forgotten all about Nate Jackson, Triandos Luke, B.J. Johnson, et al. In fact, I believe that, before his injury, Nate Jackson was on his way to being possibly better than V. Jackson might have been--at least maybe as good?

                  As it turned out, Shanny had it right: Our absolute number one need was in special teams. Is it sacrilege to compare Clarrent Williams to Dante Hall? What if a year from now we can say no? Kick returner is not a reach; it is a risk--always a risk. But, boy, did our special teams stink--you know that. That is why I thought it was a splendid move not only to draft Williams but to re-sign Burns and draft Ernster. And, at the least, with Browner, Paymah, and Foxworth on special teams, it is going to be very difficult to outrun us.

                  Would you be willing to give Shanny a "here, here" if these last two drafts do turn out well? You are a team man, so I know you will. We'll see, right?
                  I like Mikey as a coach most of the time he is on the money offensively.

                  BUt his constant reach in the draft has cost us talent that we could have had see Cugel's post after yours.

                  Last year we addressed speed in the draft and Fa's signings FOR ST, Instead od drafting DL weare sucking hinds TEAT because of it this years and while teh borwns DL fix might do the trick WE STILL have no one signed to long term contract under the age of 28. We don't know if the Browns DL will be good or were they really indeed busts!

                  We have alot of UPSIDE this year, if it all pans out one of the most talented teams in the league. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for Mikeys DAFT choices to step p and earn there money and win games for us.

                  Mikey needs to stick with the on the field coaching and palnning and leave the player Drafting to someone that knows talent and won't reach for someone a couple of rounds before they should have went.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jrhampton
                    I like Mikey as a coach most of the time he is on the money offensively.

                    BUt his constant reach in the draft has cost us talent that we could have had see Cugel's post after yours.

                    Last year we addressed speed in the draft and Fa's signings FOR ST, Instead od drafting DL weare sucking hinds TEAT because of it this years and while teh borwns DL fix might do the trick WE STILL have no one signed to long term contract under the age of 28. We don't know if the Browns DL will be good or were they really indeed busts!

                    We have alot of UPSIDE this year, if it all pans out one of the most talented teams in the league. But I'm not holding my breath waiting for Mikeys DAFT choices to step p and earn there money and win games for us.

                    Mikey needs to stick with the on the field coaching and palnning and leave the player Drafting to someone that knows talent and won't reach for someone a couple of rounds before they should have went.
                    Well, I don't know what is a "long term contract" in the NFL anymore. When a player finds out he is good, all the sudden the contract becomes null and void, and the clubs just cave in because others will snap the player up like a pack of ravenous wolves.

                    But when it comes to ages, Ekuban, Warren, Myers, and Pryce are 29, and C. Brown, Pope, and Palopei are 27, and Fatafehi and Dorsett are 26. Only Coleman, Ellis, and Raylee Johnson are "old" by football standards, and they are well worth having around, IMHO.

                    I really do expect last year's crop of WRs to be good, and this year's CBs look very good to me. In fact, they are part of the reason the Broncos can afford to move LeSueur to safety, where he may be better suited, anyway, and Browner will be there, too--I really like him. Myers MAY be the steal of the draft, and Ernster gives us reason to at least hope. If he and Clarrent Williams work out, they, along with the return of Burns, could give us the best special teams we have had in two or three decades.

                    I'm not really taking issue with you regarding Shanny's record. I just see something possibly very special coming out of the last two years. But, as the saying goes, time will tell. Does this make sense?
                    Last edited by topscribe; 05-02-2005, 12:04 AM.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by BroncoRT
                      Mel Kiper Jr. and the rest of these draft gurus know players 40 times, bench press reps, and players height and weight. They don't know football heart, vision, intangibles, football knowledge, work ethic, and feel for the game. If these gurus were so good they would be GM's and coaches themselves.

                      Yup!! That's user CP. I just recently found out that Kiper had no football background. That this guy had any reason to comment on technique (of any position) had me crack up everytime he mentioned it. I wonder if he truly knows. The guys that I know of who do have a football background are Gary Horton (NFL War Room)-he worked in Cleveland-and Russ Lande (gmjr.com)-Rams and Cleveland. That it's Cleveland, I don't care. They know how to evaluate outside of athleticism. They can evaluate their ability to play the position as well.
                      Last edited by db32; 05-02-2005, 01:20 AM.

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                      • #26
                        mel kiper is a chump hestarted out working out of his basement...lol yea he has the ability to spot talent lol......i think i found my new career...thanks mel !!!!!!!!!

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