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Williams was not the best corner we took in the draft it was Domonique Foxworth

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  • Williams was not the best corner we took in the draft it was Domonique Foxworth

    Just because Williams was picked the highest he was not the best pick or corner. Domonique Foxworth is the best pick and corner we took in the draft. He had more INTs than Williams and tackles not to mention 2.5 Inches on Williams. At 5'11" with a 38.5" vertical leap he can stay with recivers and though he ran 4.59 in the 40 he is not he is just as fast with pads so it weighs out to decent spped and the abilty to stay with recivers, oh and has outstanding cover skills. Williams may bew fast 4.34 40 and jump high 39.5" vert, but lacks cover skills and even if he stays with the reciver unless thiers a double team all the QB is got do is throw a high lob and even with his exceptional leaping abilty he is not going to come down with unless with a perfectly timed and postioned jump he won't even touch it. Why did we even take him when we could have taken Justin Miller. We should have never let go of Herndon because now we got a probable bust in Williams a crappy 2nd Corner in Lenny Walls and maybee the worst pick out of any team in the draft with Karl Paymah in the high 3rd round huh? I know you guys are going to tell me how good Lenny Walls is but he is slower than hell, has no hands, no athletcism jumping, agilty ect., and average cover skills. All he has is height and he cna't jump so the height advantage is pretty much taken away. Oh and don't even get me started on Roc Alexander cause you guys will tell me how good he is, anyone remember Wildcard weekend. I'm sorry to say this, but unless Willie Middle Brooks steps up our secondary is done cause we will be getting burned by Number 2 Recivers all year. Hopefully Champ, Lynch, and Ferguson or Brandon our whoever is Free Saftey step up and save our secondary. Or Foxworth comes in plays good enough to keep the 2nd Reciver contained or Williams some how uses his uncanty athleticism to make up for the height disadvantage. If that doesn't happen the run defense is going to be execptional or we are going to have a pittyful defense.
    Tatum Bell will run for 1500 yards next year and Champ Bailey will have 5 INTs, Darius Watts future star mark my words. Watch the middle Al Wilson will hunt you down.

    Broncos 31 Packers 24 Super Bowl XXXII


    Broncos 34 Falcons 19 Super Bowl XXXIII
    To John Elway I give you a Mile High Salute

    THANKS SNK16

  • #2
    No one ever said he was the best corner back. He is being used for punt and kick returns. Justin Miller could only do punt returns. We needed a return speacialst thats why we got him cause we need his speed. I'm sure it will be rare we see him playing defense maybe once in awhile but he will just be an all around SP. Team player.
    Darrent Williams #27 R.I.P

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ChampBaliey24
      Just because Williams was picked the highest he was not the best pick or corner. Domonique Foxworth is the best pick and corner we took in the draft. He had more INTs than Williams and tackles not to mention 2.5 Inches on Williams. At 5'11" with a 38.5" vertical leap he can stay with recivers and though he ran 4.59 in the 40 he is not he is just as fast with pads so it weighs out to decent spped and the abilty to stay with recivers, oh and has outstanding cover skills. Williams may bew fast 4.34 40 and jump high 39.5" vert, but lacks cover skills and even if he stays with the reciver unless thiers a double team all the QB is got do is throw a high lob and even with his exceptional leaping abilty he is not going to come down with unless with a perfectly timed and postioned jump he won't even touch it. Why did we even take him when we could have taken Justin Miller. We should have never let go of Herndon because now we got a probable bust in Williams a crappy 2nd Corner in Lenny Walls and maybee the worst pick out of any team in the draft with Karl Paymah in the high 3rd round huh? I know you guys are going to tell me how good Lenny Walls is but he is slower than hell, has no hands, no athletcism jumping, agilty ect., and average cover skills. All he has is height and he cna't jump so the height advantage is pretty much taken away. Oh and don't even get me started on Roc Alexander cause you guys will tell me how good he is, anyone remember Wildcard weekend. I'm sorry to say this, but unless Willie Middle Brooks steps up our secondary is done cause we will be getting burned by Number 2 Recivers all year. Hopefully Champ, Lynch, and Ferguson or Brandon our whoever is Free Saftey step up and save our secondary. Or Foxworth comes in plays good enough to keep the 2nd Reciver contained or Williams some how uses his uncanty athleticism to make up for the height disadvantage. If that doesn't happen the run defense is going to be execptional or we are going to have a pittyful defense.
      Williams was not taken necessarily as a cornerback. He was taken as a kick and punt returner. That was our most pressing need--by far--and he was the best returner available--by far. So I don't really understand the argument.

      I also don't understand the comment about "pitiful defense." Did you sleep all through last year?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by KnightOLB53
        No one ever said he was the best corner back. He is being used for punt and kick returns. Justin Miller could only do punt returns. We needed a return speacialst thats why we got him cause we need his speed. I'm sure it will be rare we see him playing defense maybe once in awhile but he will just be an all around SP. Team player.
        Justin Miller would not have been a special teams player he would have been a starter at CB and why take a special teams player wiht such a high pick I mean we could have gotten a should have been defensive line men in Justin Tuck who went to a team I absolutly hate the giants. Or maybee a FS or a SS and leave John Lynch at FS
        Tatum Bell will run for 1500 yards next year and Champ Bailey will have 5 INTs, Darius Watts future star mark my words. Watch the middle Al Wilson will hunt you down.

        Broncos 31 Packers 24 Super Bowl XXXII


        Broncos 34 Falcons 19 Super Bowl XXXIII
        To John Elway I give you a Mile High Salute

        THANKS SNK16

        Comment


        • #5
          I guess Williams was taken mostly for his outstanding returning skills, and his playmaking abilities, something Miller didn't match. Foxworth might have had a few more picks, but I bet you he didn't return them for as many touchdowns. The rest I had a hard time understanding, your logics, you complained about Williams height being 5'9ish compared to Foxsworth 5'11 and that no matter how high williams would jump he wouldn't get near it. Yet Walls is 6'4 and would (with your reasoning) get to balls Foxworth couldn't get near. By the way, in what sence is Walls slow!? He plays pretty fast I think, not Bailey fast but at least 4.59 fast. I think he has done a good job when he have started...
          Who ever said Roc was good? He was an undrafted rookie who got lined up in the playoffs against a Pro Bowler, he got lid up - everyone knows that. He has been judged unfair, give him to time to progress, and maybe he will become good - who knows. Coyer didn't excactly treat him very nice in that game, more his fault that Roc's...


          Edit: Goddamnit, I write too slow. By the time I was done with my post three replies came in. Din't mean to repeat what you all said...
          Last edited by Swede; 05-02-2005, 06:39 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by topscribe
            Williams was not taken necessarily as a cornerback. He was taken as a kick and punt returner. That was our most pressing need--by far--and he was the best returner available--by far. So I don't really understand the argument.

            I also don't understand the comment about "pitiful defense." Did you sleep all through last year?
            Yeah our defense was great last year, but if our pass defense got a lot worse and run defense did get better, but if those signings don't pan out our run defense could slip and with a average run defense and a near definite average to bad pass defense our defense could be bad maybee I was exagerating a little, but the defense could be bad with those very possible possibilties.
            Tatum Bell will run for 1500 yards next year and Champ Bailey will have 5 INTs, Darius Watts future star mark my words. Watch the middle Al Wilson will hunt you down.

            Broncos 31 Packers 24 Super Bowl XXXII


            Broncos 34 Falcons 19 Super Bowl XXXIII
            To John Elway I give you a Mile High Salute

            THANKS SNK16

            Comment


            • #7
              For starters, your grammar is deplorable, making this difficult to read and hurts the argument's credibility.

              As for Darrent Williams, he wasn't brought in to be the team's second corner, that was never the thought. For you to say he lacks cover skills proves that you do not have a television, or that you refuse to watch college football games or post-season all star games. Williams was said to have the best cover skills at the Senior Bowl, and was the only corner who came close to covering Mark Clayton. In the future, Williams should be a playmaking inside, nickel corner in the Dre Bly mold. As for Paymah, who was the last Washington State secondary member drafted that didn't have success? something to chew on...

              I do think Foxworth may be the best cover corner in the draft, but don't count out Paymah in giving him a run for the number two spot should Walls leave in the off season next year. Walls may not have elite foot speed, but don't fool yourself, his talents are more than adequate for Denver's press man scheme, being that he can smother receivers at the line, and uses his height to compete for jump balls or bat down balls after he has been beaten downfield. When healthy, Walls has proved that he can play in this league.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by OhNoKoolAid
                For starters, your grammar is deplorable, making this difficult to read and hurts the arguments credibility.

                As for Darrent Williams, he wasn't brought in to be the team's second corner, that was never the thought. For you to say he lacks cover skills proves that you do not have a television, or that you refuse to watch college football games or post-season all star games. Williams was said to have the best cover skills at the Senior Bowl, and was the only corner who came close to covering Mark Clayton. In the future, Williams should be a playmaking inside, nickel corner in the Dre Bly mold. As for Paymah, who was the last Washington State secondary member drafted that didn't have success? something to chew on...

                I do think foxworth may be the best cover corner in the draft, but don't count out Paymah in giving him a run for the number two spot should Walls leave in the off season next year. Walls may not have elite foot speed, but don't fool yourself, his talents are more than adequate for Denver's press man scheme, being that he can smother receivers at the line, and uses his height to compete for jump balls or bat down balls after he has been beaten downfield. When healthy, Walls has proved that he can play in this league.
                Judging from your answer, you seemed to be able to read his comment okay. What's with the grammar bit? Is your objective to discourage people from posting? If you can't read it, go to the next posting or the next thread. This is a football board, not an English class.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ChampBaliey24
                  Yeah our defense was great last year, but if our pass defense got a lot worse and run defense did get better, but if those signings don't pan out our run defense could slip and with a average run defense and a near definite average to bad pass defense our defense could be bad maybee I was exagerating a little, but the defense could be bad with those very possible possibilties.
                  Well, don't you worry. Our defense isn't going to be bad. Trust me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by topscribe
                    Well, don't you worry. Our defense isn't going to be bad. Trust me.
                    I hope you are right.
                    Tatum Bell will run for 1500 yards next year and Champ Bailey will have 5 INTs, Darius Watts future star mark my words. Watch the middle Al Wilson will hunt you down.

                    Broncos 31 Packers 24 Super Bowl XXXII


                    Broncos 34 Falcons 19 Super Bowl XXXIII
                    To John Elway I give you a Mile High Salute

                    THANKS SNK16

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OhNoKoolAid
                      For starters, your grammar is deplorable, making this difficult to read and hurts the argument's credibility.

                      As for Darrent Williams, he wasn't brought in to be the team's second corner, that was never the thought. For you to say he lacks cover skills proves that you do not have a television, or that you refuse to watch college football games or post-season all star games. Williams was said to have the best cover skills at the Senior Bowl, and was the only corner who came close to covering Mark Clayton. In the future, Williams should be a playmaking inside, nickel corner in the Dre Bly mold. As for Paymah, who was the last Washington State secondary member drafted that didn't have success? something to chew on...

                      I do think Foxworth may be the best cover corner in the draft, but don't count out Paymah in giving him a run for the number two spot should Walls leave in the off season next year. Walls may not have elite foot speed, but don't fool yourself, his talents are more than adequate for Denver's press man scheme, being that he can smother receivers at the line, and uses his height to compete for jump balls or bat down balls after he has been beaten downfield. When healthy, Walls has proved that he can play in this league.
                      Grammer please. If you are going to give us all an English lesson then get off the message board.
                      Tatum Bell will run for 1500 yards next year and Champ Bailey will have 5 INTs, Darius Watts future star mark my words. Watch the middle Al Wilson will hunt you down.

                      Broncos 31 Packers 24 Super Bowl XXXII


                      Broncos 34 Falcons 19 Super Bowl XXXIII
                      To John Elway I give you a Mile High Salute

                      THANKS SNK16

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ChampBaliey24
                        Grammer please. If you are going to give us all an English lesson then get off the message board.
                        It's grammar, not grammer, perhaps you should spend less time on the boards and more time studying the language.

                        As for the debate, you seem to have nothing to say other than negative comments about the players we have either drafted or are currently on the roster at the cornerback position. What makes you believe Darrent Williams has no coverage skills? That Paymah won't last in the Denver scheme (let it be known that he has played alonside Marcus Trufant and Erik Coleman at WSU, and watched Lamont Thompson from the sidelines, all three quality NFL players) even though his former college system produces NFL talent? To say that Miller is a far better talent, here is a suprise, he's only 5'9, and that 200 lbs. isn't all muscle, the guy has poor practice habits. Williams is no more a reach than Miller, who has exhibited nothing along the lines of character that suggests he will be a better player. Maturity concerns, arrests, work ethic... As for return ability, Miller only does kickoffs, Williams can do both, and he returned three punts for touchdowns in only twenty-two attempts, pretty stellar I'd say.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by ChampBaliey24
                          Just because Williams was picked the highest he was not the best pick or corner. Domonique Foxworth is the best pick and corner we took in the draft. He had more INTs than Williams and tackles not to mention 2.5 Inches on Williams. At 5'11" with a 38.5" vertical leap he can stay with recivers and though he ran 4.59 in the 40 he is not he is just as fast with pads so it weighs out to decent spped and the abilty to stay with recivers, oh and has outstanding cover skills. Williams may bew fast 4.34 40 and jump high 39.5" vert, but lacks cover skills and even if he stays with the reciver unless thiers a double team all the QB is got do is throw a high lob and even with his exceptional leaping abilty he is not going to come down with unless with a perfectly timed and postioned jump he won't even touch it. Why did we even take him when we could have taken Justin Miller. We should have never let go of Herndon because now we got a probable bust in Williams a crappy 2nd Corner in Lenny Walls and maybee the worst pick out of any team in the draft with Karl Paymah in the high 3rd round huh? I know you guys are going to tell me how good Lenny Walls is but he is slower than hell, has no hands, no athletcism jumping, agilty ect., and average cover skills. All he has is height and he cna't jump so the height advantage is pretty much taken away. Oh and don't even get me started on Roc Alexander cause you guys will tell me how good he is, anyone remember Wildcard weekend. I'm sorry to say this, but unless Willie Middle Brooks steps up our secondary is done cause we will be getting burned by Number 2 Recivers all year. Hopefully Champ, Lynch, and Ferguson or Brandon our whoever is Free Saftey step up and save our secondary. Or Foxworth comes in plays good enough to keep the 2nd Reciver contained or Williams some how uses his uncanty athleticism to make up for the height disadvantage. If that doesn't happen the run defense is going to be execptional or we are going to have a pittyful defense.
                          Wow, very "thoughtfut" post. Let's break it down.

                          1. Actually you are wrong about INT's. Williams has 11 career INTs (Williams finished his career with 173 tackles (132 solos) with eight stops for losses of 30 yards, a fumble recovery for a 53-yard return, three forced fumbles and 37 pass breakups. He gained 282 yards on 11 interceptions (25.6 avg.) and five touchdowns. His five scoring returns set school and conference career records. In addition, Williams returned 22 punts for 482 yards (21.9 avg.) and three touchdowns, adding 83 yards on four kickoff returns (20.8 avg.)) while Foxworth had 8 only (He closed out his Terrapin career with 142 tackles (121 solo), two stops for losses of 6 yards and four fumble recoveries. Foxworth also deflected 31 passes and intercepted eight others for 128 yards in returns and a touchdown. )

                          2. What does Foxworth being 5'11 have to do with coverage skills? Adam Jones is only 5'9 1/2 and he was the first corner taken. He's got pretty damn good coverage skills for a short guy.

                          3. The reason we didnt take Justin Miller is because he has more experience at kick returns rather than punt. Williams has both and had done it well. Miller also had several off field incidents weeks before the draft which dropped his stock from low first round to second.

                          4. Lenny Walls isnt the greatest corner but to say he has no hands and athletecism is simply ignorant. Actually he has pretty good jumping ability, with a 37 inch vertical jump. Are you also forgetting the one year when he did start 16 games opposite Kelly Herndon. I believe he had 14 passes defended which is nothing to laugh at.

                          5. There's a reason why Roc Alexander was undrafted. He is blazing fast (4.38 40 time), but has absolutely no coverage skills. ANALYSIS: From an athletic point of view, Alexander is a physically gifted prospect that will turn heads, but the major underlying factors most will focus on are the number of receptions he gives up and past injury history. Someone may take a flier on him in the late rounds.

                          6. Willie Middlebrooks had a break out year this season until he got injured. 21 tackles, 1 sack, and 5 passes defended as a nickle defender in 2004 in 12 games is his best career stats. I wouldnt be surprised if he brought that success this season.

                          7. Jeremy Lesueur is moving to free safety, as is Brandon Browner. Hopefully he steps it up in the eventual future to be the ball hawking safety the Broncos surely lack. Ferguson is good in coverage, but not great. Lynch HAS to be moved to SS, or the Broncos will be beat in deep coverage once again.

                          8. Never once has Shanahan, Sunquist, or any of the Broncos staff has stated that they expect Williams to start at corner opposite Champ Bailey. Drafting Williams was persay "killing two birds with one stone". They got a special teams returner and gunner, and a very good slot corner. As a slot corner you have to be good at pressing the reciever and quick, which Williams is. Broncos brass obviously didnt not draft Williams as the eventual successor to Champ Bailey.

                          Well that should clear things up. Btw its reciever and safety, not recever and saftey.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            btw it's receiver not reciever... but other than that you are 100% correct...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Well put ttejuco....

                              Williams was drafted primarily as a punt and kick return man. He is dangerous every time he gets his hands on the ball. We were near the bottom for average starting field position last year, and that is why our first pick was needed for an effective return man. He can be used in nickel and dime packages to cover speedy H backs like Mark Clayton, but is probably not physical enough as a pro corner. I also read that he will be used as a gunner when we are kicking. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE WILLIAMS RUN A REVERSE ON OFFENSE!

                              I think Paymah and Foxworth were both drafted for insurance, because of uncertainities surrounding Walls with injuries, and Free Agency next year. I think we should eventually have a solid starter between the two of them, and they will be great special teams players in the near future. I am not sure which will be better, but I would give Foxworth a slight edge. Walls is solid when healthy. I don't have stats to back this up, but I remember our defense as being better with Walls in the line up.

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