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Did our first round picks both play last night (12/27)?

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  • WABronco
    replied
    Originally posted by OhNoKoolAid
    Yeah, I know what you mean; Mario Williams would not look that good in Ricky Williams' wedding dress.
    hehehe.....

    Leave a comment:


  • OhNoKoolAid
    replied
    Originally posted by WABronco
    Nice answer...

    Frankly, I'm cool with whatever, as long as we don't sell the farm and then some to move up, if you know what I mean...
    Yeah, I know what you mean; Mario Williams would not look that good in Ricky Williams' wedding dress.

    Leave a comment:


  • WABronco
    replied
    Originally posted by OhNoKoolAid
    The bust factor of late first rounders when drafting on need is astronomically high. If we were to go BPA, then it wouldn't be such a problem, but that often isn't in Shany's cards, and we stand the risk of striking out if we draft on perceived positional needs like safety or wide receiver. If defensive end was targeted as a need, it would be less difficult to miss this year in my opinion, but again, late first rounders can be tough cookies.

    Besides, I'm 100% positive that barring injury, Mario Williams and Mathias Kiwanuka will be great players at the next level, Williams espeically. Williams sounds like he will be a top five pick and the first defensive player taken, if you listen to Kiper. Last year, I thought Shawne Merriman had stud written all over him, and I feel even more positive about Williams. If the chance is there and the need is recognized, it is hard to pass on a sure thing. If I had my drouthers, I'm talking to the Jets about their pick should they not be in Leinart land (Heimerdinger is very nervous about Pennington) or Bush world. Looking at the Broncos, they are excellent to passable in every area accept pass rushing, and I still believe that one speed rusher can change the entire nature of the pass rush, since the interior push is there. We don't need a wholesale change of scheme, but it does need a tweaking and a mild influx of athleticism. We're talking one pure pass rusher to play every down on the right side, and who else would be better than the top two guys listed? That is all this team lacks from being close to its peak performance-wise. Luckily for Denver, tey've reached the point in the season that you can have such a flaw and still win it all, since we are talking three individual games, and luck has as much to do with winning as skill in the playoffs.
    Nice answer...

    Frankly, I'm cool with whatever, as long as we don't sell the farm and then some to move up, if you know what I mean...

    Leave a comment:


  • OhNoKoolAid
    replied
    Originally posted by WABronco
    True, but there are some players, successfull players I might add, who deploy all out hustle and grit as a big part of their game. Bryce Fisher is a guy that comes instantly to mind. Heck, I would put Wistrom in that group as well. Grant's a pretty big strong dude, but he still plays out of his mind...

    BTW, do you still think we should trade up, if presented with the oppurtunity? We could get two potential solid-starter types if we stand pat...

    Also, do you think the salary-cap ramifications of two first rounders would be too great, or one top-10 guy for that matter?
    The bust factor of late first rounders when drafting on need is astronomically high. If we were to go BPA, then it wouldn't be such a problem, but that often isn't in Shany's cards, and we stand the risk of striking out if we draft on perceived positional needs like safety or wide receiver. If defensive end was targeted as a need, it would be less difficult to miss this year in my opinion, but again, late first rounders can be tough cookies.

    Besides, I'm 100% positive that barring injury, Mario Williams and Mathias Kiwanuka will be great players at the next level, Williams espeically. Williams sounds like he will be a top five pick and the first defensive player taken, if you listen to Kiper. Last year, I thought Shawne Merriman had stud written all over him, and I feel even more positive about Williams. If the chance is there and the need is recognized, it is hard to pass on a sure thing. If I had my drouthers, I'm talking to the Jets about their pick should they not be in Leinart land (Heimerdinger is very nervous about Pennington) or Bush world. Looking at the Broncos, they are excellent to passable in every area accept pass rushing, and I still believe that one speed rusher can change the entire nature of the pass rush, since the interior push is there. We don't need a wholesale change of scheme, but it does need a tweaking and a mild influx of athleticism. We're talking one pure pass rusher to play every down on the right side, and who else would be better than the top two guys listed? That is all this team lacks from being close to its peak performance-wise. Luckily for Denver, tey've reached the point in the season that you can have such a flaw and still win it all, since we are talking three individual games, and luck has as much to do with winning as skill in the playoffs.

    Leave a comment:


  • WABronco
    replied
    Originally posted by OhNoKoolAid
    Hustle is overrated. Intangibles like determination and hustle are more requirements than they are advantages. Guys that lack such intangibles rarely stick in the league to begin with. Physical attributes are far superior to intangibles when rating players (not saying Hali lacks such, just that he isn't in Mario or Kiwi's league.) I remember arguing last year about guys like Roth and Swancutt shouldn't count hustle as a positive attribute because a lot of guys have as much determination without being so showy and flashy about how "hard they work." To that notion, the two have a combined one sack in the league this year. Media members unfamiliar with the scouting process love to flaunt such attributes, which often overrate players, like Roth. Hali's motor is nice, but who's to say Dumervil's or Kiwanuka's or Eric Henderson's run as hard if not harder?

    Physical attributes come first.
    True, but there are some players, successfull players I might add, who deploy all out hustle and grit as a big part of their game. Bryce Fisher is a guy that comes instantly to mind. Heck, I would put Wistrom in that group as well. Grant's a pretty big strong dude, but he still plays out of his mind...

    BTW, do you still think we should trade up, if presented with the oppurtunity? We could get two potential solid-starter types if we stand pat...

    Also, do you think the salary-cap ramifications of two first rounders would be too great, or one top-10 guy for that matter?

    Leave a comment:


  • OhNoKoolAid
    replied
    Originally posted by WABronco
    Hagan with our second pick sounds great to me. IMO, he's even more appealing because he's got a great chance to contribute early.

    I'm becoming somewhat convinced that trading up for Mario or Kiwi is overkill. I bet we could get either Adams or Hali, who's especially appealing to me because of his sheer hustle (on top of his physical attributes), with our first pick or with a trade-up of smaller scale (ala 2004 and Deltha Oneal's departure).

    Hustle is overrated. Intangibles like determination and hustle are more requirements than they are advantages. Guys that lack such intangibles rarely stick in the league to begin with. Physical attributes are far superior to intangibles when rating players (not saying Hali lacks such, just that he isn't in Mario or Kiwi's league.) I remember arguing last year about guys like Roth and Swancutt shouldn't count hustle as a positive attribute because a lot of guys have as much determination without being so showy and flashy about how "hard they work." To that notion, the two have a combined one sack in the league this year. Media members unfamiliar with the scouting process love to flaunt such attributes, which often overrate players, like Roth. Hali's motor is nice, but who's to say Dumervil's or Kiwanuka's or Eric Henderson's run as hard if not harder?

    Physical attributes come first.

    Leave a comment:


  • WABronco
    replied
    Originally posted by OhNoKoolAid
    Lucky for us that Hagan should be in attendance at the Senior Bowl, where his route running could be on display against some of the better cover corners in the draft. He stands a chance to really improve his stock at the Senior Bowl by answering questions about his playing speed against elite players.
    Hagan with our second pick sounds great to me. IMO, he's even more appealing because he's got a great chance to contribute early.

    I'm becoming somewhat convinced that trading up for Mario or Kiwi is overkill. I bet we could get either Adams or Hali, who's especially appealing to me because of his sheer hustle (on top of his physical attributes), with our first pick or with a trade-up of smaller scale (ala 2004 and Deltha Oneal's departure).
    Last edited by WABronco; 12-28-2005, 04:31 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • OhNoKoolAid
    replied
    Originally posted by MindField
    I did not see the Colorado/Clemson game, but I am also looking at another HYBRID pass-rush DE/OLB in Georgia's Quinton Moses...in terms of build, both Adams and Moses seem to be listed at about 6'5"-250-260, so they seem to be similar players in terms of physical mold.


    I thought Hagan did some nice things last night, but I will have to see more before I am sold.
    Lucky for us that Hagan should be in attendance at the Senior Bowl, where his route running could be on display against some of the better cover corners in the draft. He stands a chance to really improve his stock at the Senior Bowl by answering questions about his playing speed against elite players.

    Leave a comment:


  • MindField
    replied
    I Like

    Originally posted by OhNoKoolAid
    If you took in both the Inight.com Bowl and the Champs Sports Bowl last night, you may have witnessed two players who could be in minicamp at Dove Valley in 2006. The early bowl held a personal favorite of mine in Gaines Adams, a defensive end at Clemson who has played in a zone-blitz heavy scheme directed by former Wyoming coach Koenning. Adams recorded two sacks against a completely inept Colorado offense who appeared content to run away from him, likely more to keep the ball out of QB Cox's hands. Adams showed good speed and the ability to tackle with force, as well as an awareness to make plays all over the field. He looks similar to Justin Tuck to me, and should slot in the draft around where Tuck's value was (although I think Tuck went below his value, his original projection of late first-early second suits Adams just fine.) Adams did show that he occasionally will run himself out of plays, and won't always pursue backside as much as he should, but there was no doubting his ability to be disruptive in the backfield. Should he enter the draft, Adams would be an upgrade over Ekuban in not only athleticism and pass rushing instinct, but also in his ability to cover and knowledge of zome schemes for defensive ends.

    The other has been discussed a bit by Minefield and was linked to Denver by Mel Kiper. and that was WR Derek Hagan of Arizona State. Hagan was compared to Rod Smith by commentator Gary Danielson, which should perk the ears of several Bronco fans looking for a reciever, but I still contend that he compares more favorably to Mushin Muhammad of the Chicago Bears. Hagan is sneaky fast that gains separation through route running and the use of his body, which makes him more polished and possibly better equipped to adjust to the NFL faster than most rookie receivers. He's also been extremely productive and appears to have the moxie needed to suceed in the league. He demonstrated solid leadership qualities last night and helped lead the comeback over Rutgers. One concern that I do have is that he is also very similar to Rashaun Woods, who has been an afterthought in his first two years in the pros (whether it is his fault or the poor quality of the 49ers remains to be seen, he's been battling with injuries as well). Sometimes players cannot recover from lacking good speed, which makes Hagan a risk, but it should also make him available in the later part of round one, and with all signs pointing to Denver taking a wide receiver, he's as good as any first rounder this season at the position. He has go-to guy qualities that could make him a top number two, or a lower teir number one, which for a mid-late first rounder isn't that bad.

    DISCLAIMER: This is just my take on last night's events and a fun breakdown of two prominent players that shared the spotlight in last night's games. This isn't necessarily my take on what Denver should do, I just hope it is something you find worth reading for entertainment and perhaps, and enlightening perspective.

    I did not see the Colorado/Clemson game, but I am also looking at another HYBRID pass-rush DE/OLB in Georgia's Quinton Moses...in terms of build, both Adams and Moses seem to be listed at about 6'5"-250-260, so they seem to be similar players in terms of physical mold.


    I thought Hagan did some nice things last night, but I will have to see more before I am sold.

    Leave a comment:


  • Did our first round picks both play last night (12/27)?

    If you took in both the Inight.com Bowl and the Champs Sports Bowl last night, you may have witnessed two players who could be in minicamp at Dove Valley in 2006. The early bowl held a personal favorite of mine in Gaines Adams, a defensive end at Clemson who has played in a zone-blitz heavy scheme directed by former Wyoming coach Koenning. Adams recorded two sacks against a completely inept Colorado offense who appeared content to run away from him, likely more to keep the ball out of QB Cox's hands. Adams showed good speed and the ability to tackle with force, as well as an awareness to make plays all over the field. He looks similar to Justin Tuck to me, and should slot in the draft around where Tuck's value was (although I think Tuck went below his value, his original projection of late first-early second suits Adams just fine.) Adams did show that he occasionally will run himself out of plays, and won't always pursue backside as much as he should, but there was no doubting his ability to be disruptive in the backfield. Should he enter the draft, Adams would be an upgrade over Ekuban in not only athleticism and pass rushing instinct, but also in his ability to cover and knowledge of zome schemes for defensive ends.

    The other has been discussed a bit by Mindfield and was linked to Denver by Mel Kiper. and that was WR Derek Hagan of Arizona State. Hagan was compared to Rod Smith by commentator Gary Danielson, which should perk the ears of several Bronco fans looking for a reciever, but I still contend that he compares more favorably to Mushin Muhammad of the Chicago Bears. Hagan is sneaky fast that gains separation through route running and the use of his body, which makes him more polished and possibly better equipped to adjust to the NFL faster than most rookie receivers. He's also been extremely productive and appears to have the moxie needed to suceed in the league. He demonstrated solid leadership qualities last night and helped lead the comeback over Rutgers. One concern that I do have is that he is also very similar to Rashaun Woods, who has been an afterthought in his first two years in the pros (whether it is his fault or the poor quality of the 49ers remains to be seen, he's been battling with injuries as well). Sometimes players cannot recover from lacking good speed, which makes Hagan a risk, but it should also make him available in the later part of round one, and with all signs pointing to Denver taking a wide receiver, he's as good as any first rounder this season at the position. He has go-to guy qualities that could make him a top number two, or a lower teir number one, which for a mid-late first rounder isn't that bad.

    DISCLAIMER: This is just my take on last night's events and a fun breakdown of two prominent players that shared the spotlight in last night's games. This isn't necessarily my take on what Denver should do, I just hope it is something you find worth reading for entertainment and perhaps, and enlightening perspective.
    Last edited by OhNoKoolAid; 12-28-2005, 03:06 PM.
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