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Do we really need Deffensive line?

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  • Do we really need Deffensive line?

    I know this will generate a few flames, but I wanted to say something . (I don't generally say much, I'm more of a lurker.)

    I was thinking about this and looking at the stats from last season and current roster.

    We currently have 3 first round draft picks on our D-Line, including a number 1 pick.
    I like our fairly young 1st round D-Line Ekuban, Warren, X, Brown. I also like the way they've changed themselves as people. They seemed to work hard and settled quickly in Denver, I expect increased performance next year.
    Granted we had very few sacks last year, but sacks or lack of are also a result of the defensive schemes. How many teams reverted to max protect against us last year?
    We had one of the highest QB pressure counts in the league last year and it showed in the number of interceptions. Look at Ferguson's year, 5 interceptions.

    Perhaps if we had a very fast rusher it would help with chase downs, but I think our weakest point on the line is actually DT, Myers is ok and good in rotation but he's not to the same standard as the rest.

    If we do use a first round on D-Line there is no guarantee they'll perform any better than the rest of our first round draft picks. I'd expect more sacks this year if we see less max protect and more inventive defensive schemes.

    Personally I'd like to look at positions,

    FS/SS - both starters are 32+. However I'm not sure if (other than Huff) any would warrant our first round pick? Jason Allen or Ko Simpson?

    WR - Rod is 35, Lelie isn't as reliable as he should be. However, the WR depth is poor for this draft and again there is the issue of pick warranting 15 or 22. There is also the danger with Chad Jackson of drafting a workout specialist.

    RB - There is the old argument against this, why do we need a good RB when our scheme is so good etc. Well the argument against this would be someone like Portis, for a 2nd round pick (which Portis was - projected 1st if I remember correctly) look at the value we got in return, Champ + 2nd round pick Drafting a good RB would not only help the team but is a good investment and has a high chance of success. However, there are 4 or 5 good RBs and picking one early may be a waste. I think if we still had 29 we could pick the best one left, at 15 and 22 I'm not sure if the same rule applies.


    TE - I would like this as a pick but again there are three players I'd be happy with, Vernon Davis, Leonard Pope and Mercedes Lewis. Obviously if Davis falls to 15 he would be my first pick. However I don't think he's worth 2 first round picks, especially when there are others. TE is an under valued position I feel, if you look at Shanon Sharpe's last season (770yrds) that's more than 3 out of 4 of Lelie's yearly totals (only 2004 was better 1084 yards). Jake likes big targets and I think a good blocking and great receiving TE would help the passing game a lot.


    So with all the options available I'd actually be happy with more trading and more specifically trading down. If we could exchange 15 for a later first and a second round?

    This way I'd go RB(1a) TE/WR(1b) FS(2a) DE(2b)

    If we stay as we are I'd go RB at 15, and either TE or FS at 22.

    Last edited by eletero; 03-24-2006, 08:58 AM.
    In memory of Darrent Williams 1982-2007


    Smiley by me
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    "It seems like every week you click on the film and you want to roll back out of your chair and say, 'Lord help me,'" Coyer on NFL offenses

  • #2
    No one should jump on you for your opinion. You've thought out the reason for your opinion.

    Anyways, I think we definitely need to draft a defensive lineman. I say go DE on the 15 pick and go WR on the 22.

    I believe this is the year of the projects. Look for Denver to look at Duke to make a huge contribution at TE, look for Cedric Cobb to make a contribution at RB, and look for Brandon Browner to make a huge contribution at Safety.

    Personally, I don't think Duke is the answer at TE, but I think he's Shanny's main project.
    Emancipate your mind!
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    • #3
      I like the players we have on the D-line. The one thing we are missing is a pure speed pass rusher. Having one would create problems for offenses in obvious passing situations. 1. A top pass rusher will add pressure to QB 2. A top pass rusher will occupy a double team, freeing up a DT to pressure the QB. 3.Offenses will have to keep another TE back to block, freeing up our cover guys. The player I really like is Daryl Tapp. He is one of the few to beat DBrickashaw, and was all over the QB's in the Senior Bowl. He is also a very good Special teams player

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      • #4
        Great post, still think we need DE first

        Great post challenging the conventional wisdom.

        I still think top priority is DE. My basis is the Pittsburgh AFC championship game. They picked us apart because we couldn't get any pressure on Roethsliberger. We've got the rest of the defense. Secondary is solid, great linebackers, great run stop...we've got to get sacks and more pressure. Just think about how many more INT's we would get.

        I'm hoping that we don't have to burn a draft choice on WR. To me that's the best argument for trying to make something work with Moulds. Trade value should be low and if the Redskins can get under the cap, we should be able to sign a cap-friendly deal with Moulds. Then we can draft for DE and the best available DE (two to compete), TE, S, or RB with our two picks. And with the TE depth in the draft, there are going to be solid choices available in the second round.

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        • #5
          I think if we do draft a DE he needs to a speed specialist, which we could get in the mid rounds, 3rd comp perhaps?

          Has anyone seen,

          Mark Anderson or Stanley McClover play? From what I hear McClover is more of an athlete and faster, Anderson has better size though.

          http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...ymcclover.html
          http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sco...kanderson.html
          In memory of Darrent Williams 1982-2007


          Smiley by me
          My sigs

          "It seems like every week you click on the film and you want to roll back out of your chair and say, 'Lord help me,'" Coyer on NFL offenses

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          • #6
            Anderson was very impressive at the Sr. Bowl, and at the combine.

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            • #7
              So is it certain Duke will be in training camp for us? I am unaware of this.


              I think we don't need any more DE's... We just need a very good DT prospect out of this draft. Kamerion Wimbley for example.

              We need more offense than defense in this draft.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DURANGO BRONCO
                I like the players we have on the D-line. The one thing we are missing is a pure speed pass rusher. Having one would create problems for offenses in obvious passing situations. 1. A top pass rusher will add pressure to QB 2. A top pass rusher will occupy a double team, freeing up a DT to pressure the QB. 3.Offenses will have to keep another TE back to block, freeing up our cover guys. The player I really like is Daryl Tapp. He is one of the few to beat DBrickashaw, and was all over the QB's in the Senior Bowl. He is also a very good Special teams player
                I agree, a guy like daryl tapp would be a good adition and a guy that you can get later than the 1st round, We tend to forget that we were a 13-3 team! Our defense was very good, Do we need to get more sacks? sure, but dont get pigioned holed into drafting a position instead of players, We can aford to get the best player on the board, no matter the position.
                sigpic

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                • #9
                  I dont think we need anymore DEs. We got Ekuban, Brown, and Lang that should be enough. But I do think we need a DT to replace Myers. We should get some king of good pass rushing DT. And for WR I really really think we should somehow get eric moulds since he does not want to stay at Buffalo, and Denver is his top choice.

                  for 15 I think we should draft a good DT
                  and for 22 we should draft a TE like Leonard Pope or somethin

                  B-Marsh owning Al Harris(Aka: the supposed most physical corner in the league)

                  Mock Draft:

                  **If Ellis/Dorsey fall**

                  1) Dorsey or Ellis(whoever falls)
                  2) Devin Thomas
                  4) Frank Okam
                  4) Beau Bell

                  **If Ellis/Dorsey dont fall**

                  1) Desean Jackson
                  2) Pat Sims or Trevor Laws(whoever falls)
                  4) Frank Okam
                  4) Beau Bell

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                  • #10
                    To awnser the post simply: Yes.

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                    • #11
                      good post eletero

                      i hate to be the one to burst the bubble, but it doesn't matter where brown and ekuban were drafted-- all that matters is their performance, and they don't even resemble 1st round picks. . . not one DE on our roster is better than average, and that's being kind! they're solid against the run, but none of them is a disruptive game-changer in the mold of a jason taylor, simeon rice, etc (insert name of elite DE here), let alone the true elites like freeney and peppers. . .

                      it's circular reasoning to say that another 1st round DE could turn out like brown or ekuban-- by that reasoning, you should never draft any player high becasue they could turn out to be a bust! fact is, it is riskier drafting high, but that's also where the most reward is! sure we can take a 3rd or 4th rounder, but you have to realize those players are still on the board for a reason-- scouts don't think they have the same potential/high ceiling as the guys drafted higher. . . doesn't mean it's always true, but your odds of getting a really good player are still much better in the higher rounds. . .

                      granted, the "browncos" are hard workers, but none of them has the physical talent to excell as a pass rusher-- they just don't have that explosive first step, and no amount of hard work can make up for that! pass rushing DE is the clear weakness on our D, and if we don't change it we will be forced to rely on the all-out blitz just like we did last year, and when teams figure out how to pick it up they will sit back and pick apart our secondary like pitt did, and NE in the second half!

                      if you look at the best defenses, they are able to get pressure with their front 4, like chicago and carolina-- this allows you to drop more guys in coverage, take away anything long, keep the play in front of you. . . and also can make your blitz even more effective because you can bring it selectively, mix up your play calling, and dictate to the offense instead of having them dictate to you!

                      pressures are not sacks-- a QB under pressure can still complete a pass, but a sack finishes the play, and helps immensely in the game of field position. . . and can lead to fumbles also! besides, if pressure is what you really want, obviously adding a top pass rusher improves your pressure as much as it does your sack total, and allows you to get that pressure without bringing the house. . . without a true pass rusher like berry or hayward, our 3rd down completion percentage allowed sky-rocketed last year, and we were forced to be a one-dimensional, predictable blitzing D-- i love bringing the heat, but we all know the old saying. . . live by the blitz, die by the blitz, and when it counted most we died by it.
                      Last edited by dogfish; 03-26-2006, 12:15 PM.
                      Officially Objectified by the GPA

                      rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

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                      • #12
                        We do not need a DL in the first round. We don't have a superior pass rusher but we have enough talent on defense for a good scheme (like last year) to be effective. We do not have a player on offense who we can depend on for results at key moments in the game. That is why our offense stalls too much, and makes our defense look bad. Question: Who was the Pittsburg Steelers sack artist? We need someone to KEEP DRIVES ALIVE.
                        CCZUU LUV

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by phatbronco
                          We do not need a DL in the first round. We don't have a superior pass rusher but we have enough talent on defense for a good scheme (like last year) to be effective. We do not have a player on offense who we can depend on for results at key moments in the game. That is why our offense stalls too much, and makes our defense look bad. Question: Who was the Pittsburg Steelers sack artist? We need someone to KEEP DRIVES ALIVE.

                          answer-- joey porter had 10.5 sacks during the regular season, and clark haggans had 9. . . more than all of our defensive linemen combined, starters and reserves. NEXT QUESTION!


                          oh, and BTW, we led the league in time of possesion, so it may be an exaggeration to say we couldn't keep drives alive-- we held the ball more than any team in the league. . . sure, we did fail to control the clock in the second half of some games down the stretch, but overall keeping drives alive clearly wasn't the problem. . . big ben standing in the pocket for 5-6 seconds at a time WAS a problem, especially compared to the way pitt's pass rush swarmed jake almost immediately whenever we tried to throw. . .
                          Last edited by dogfish; 03-26-2006, 01:44 PM.
                          Officially Objectified by the GPA

                          rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

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                          • #14
                            Porter and Haggans had all of those sacks because of the scheme. Porter and Hagan play linebacker if you did not know. What type of D-line sack specialist do they have? How much talent can we afford to put on defense? We have champ, Al, Lynch, Ian. I feel we need some of that talent on offense.
                            CCZUU LUV

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by phatbronco
                              Porter and Haggans had all of those sacks because of the scheme. Porter and Hagan play linebacker if you did not know. What type of D-line sack specialist do they have? How much talent can we afford to put on defense? We have champ, Al, Lynch, Ian. I feel we need some of that talent on offense.

                              please, don't tell me they are LBs (yes, thanks, i am aware that pitt runs a 3-4) and then ask what D-line sack specialists they have-- you know as well as i do that 3-4 DLs aren't the primary pass rushers in that scheme! what does it matter where the rush comes from as long as you are getting it?! did it matter to jake that those were LBs knocking him down or ripping the ball away from him?
                              Officially Objectified by the GPA

                              rest in peace, darrent williams and damien nash-- you will be missed!!

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